PC Latest Update & Features Nobody Asked For

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Digital Draftsman, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    As usual there was another update with no explaination of what it was (before anyone says, no, I didn't see the message from TrainSim-Generic on the Discord server or buried in some random thread here or on Steam). Is it really that difficult for DTG to make a post about it in the news section here or on Steam? Regardless, it's a side issue and consistent with the poor communication we've come to expect from DTG.

    What gets me is that the update has included integration of the DTG Store and DTG Live into TSW. These are features which nobody has ever asked for, so why on Earth would you folks at DTG dedicate resources to implementing it, especially when there's a huge list of bugs and missing features that you could throw resources at?!

    Why's it called DTG Live? The most recent article is from weeks ago! Here's a crazy idea, how about an article about this latest update!? If you're going to call it DTG Live, at least put up-to-date info on it.

    Also, why would anyone want to use their game to access the Steam Store when they can already access the DTG Store and Steam Store through both their web browser and the Steam Client itself?

    I saw this latest update and thought for a second there may be some new bug fixes, but alas, it wasn't to be. Rant over...
     
    • Like Like x 22
  2. giogurto_grande

    giogurto_grande Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    128
    Very well put, Digital Draftsman, I totally agree. I would also like to point out that the menu interface itself has been made worse with that update. The route list now uses less screen space so just four routes can be seen at once instead of six. At least that's the case at Full HD resolution. And I can't scroll through my routes conveniently using the mouse wheel anymore.

    So, uh, great, thanks.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  3. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    3,127
    Hi Digital Draftsman,

    Apologies with the delay with patch notes delivery - James, who is usually responsible for creating and publishing articles in our live section, had to take a couple of days off due to health concerns. We always aim to get the patch notes released immediately after the update is live, so this case is an exception rather than a rule.

    The team responsible for Dovetail Live is completely different from the QA team. We have released an update for consoles one week ago, and three weeks ago for PC. More updates are coming for TS1 and for TSW when they are past all QA procedures.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    363
    But I had to download 177mb today?
     
  5. TrainSim-Daniel

    TrainSim-Daniel Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2018
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    183
    Hi,
    The 177MB update will be the new UI features the op is referring to.
     
  6. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    582
    DTG has a Quality department :D
     
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Each time the DTG QA department gets mentioned seems like a joke :D
     
    • Like Like x 7
  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    Of course they do.
     
  9. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    TSW Studio Update

    Here's a behind the scenes look at DTG's QA department:

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
    • Like Like x 14
  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    The Studio Update should come this week.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    237
    You've been on a winning streak lately... the internet is going to run out of upvotes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    You mean downvotes.
     
  13. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    237
    Wrong again, AP. Wrong again.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  14. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    363
    Cant believe it, hes actually a pro-DTG bot HAHAHA
     
    • Like Like x 7
  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    I am not a bot. I just like DTG and their products.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    Same here, some people on here can't seem to accept that many people are getting immense enjoyment from the sim and don't feel the need to come on here typing long wordy posts moaning about DTG and TSW. If it is that bad why bother playing the sim or do some people get more pleasure from constantly moaning?

    As for the excitement about up votes on comments, it is pretty silly really as this place seems to have become an anti-DTG echo-chamber so up-votes do not prove you are right!
     
    • Like Like x 7
  17. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    I don't think I've once seen anyone deny that some people get immense enjoyment from the sim, after all everyone is entitled to hold an opinion. What I do see quite frequently are people, who post constantly about how great DTG are, trying to shutdown discussions contrary to their view. It's also notable that those same people never actually address any of the issues raised in the discussion.

    You mention this forum being an 'anti-DTG echo-chamber' and conclude that it's that way because 'people get pleasure from constantly moaning'. You're dismissing all the bug filled DLC, all the missing features that have never materialised, the continual delay of the editor as well as the overall poor communication and indifference to feedback displayed by DTG. You're acting as if those things are just some minor issue that people, despite having paid for a product, have no right to complain about.

    At the time of writing, my inital post has 14 upvotes and 2 downvotes. Do you seriously believe that the upvotes are just because people enjoy moaning, rather than a gesture of support for a viewpoint which they resonate with, a viewpoint they have arrived at after purchasing a product and feeling let down by the developer?

    I love train simming and I want to DTG and TSW to be a success, so when I see them taking action contrary to that, I call them out on it. I want DTG to improve their communication, to listen to feedback and make changes based upon it. I don't want the forum to feel like an 'anti-DTG echo-chamber', but if DTG don't change then the forum won't either.

    Bottom line: It's not up to the customers to lower their standards, but for DTG to raise theirs.
     
    • Like Like x 18
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  18. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Exactly this. I'm personally here since day 1, following DTG and their predecessors. We are talking about more than 11 years. 11, not 2, 11. I would love to see this business succeed, but comparing 2019's DTG with 2008's DTG I see small to no improvement in the community communication strategy or the quality of the released products. Some isolated products have indeed good potential (for example, Ruhr-Sieg), but the overall picture is depressing. With immense respect, but too many people are just in denial.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  19. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    786
    Latest Update features are little useless but if DTG want them to implement I have no problem with it.
    Communication about this update is fail, I think Dmitri and team, should make some consequences from it to prevent dependency on one guy.
    TSW is good project, more difficult than TS20XX, so everything needs more time because manpower is limited.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Surprised nobody picked up on this tidbit from Dmitri...
    Immediately AFTER, so people will already be getting the download (and possible issues) BEFORE the notes are released. Maybe, the day before an intended release the notes could be published so as to not "surprise" people rather than doing it after the fact?
    Or just do what other developers do and always release them on the same day each month (thinking MS super Tuesday, Supercell on the second monday of the month et al)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    3,127
    I agree. That was my mistake for not sorting out the update notes properly. Some things I'm doing here are still for the first time, so I will take note.
    I'm afraid this is not possible. No point in releasing update notes only to find out that the update was delayed for some reason.

    This is also not possible.

    Regardless, I do not see any problem with our update release schedule, not sure if any suggestions are required for this. Future update notes will be sorted according to our previous procedure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I disagree on several levels, but if that's DTG's way then we continue as we are
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    3,127
    I see where you are coming from. Releasing notes a couple of days prior to the update so that people could prepare.

    However, I don't think it is possible right now as we usually find out about the details of the update right before the notes go out.

    I'm not going to chase this unless there is very strong reasoning to get update notes before the update is live.
     
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    • Notification that an update is GOING to be released means that people don't have an unexpected download (and we almost always see "What's this download" posts, so that has been noted several times)
    • If there was an update log post on the stream that was posted in the morning the update was going live then people would be alerted and can keep track of fixed issues rather than five posts asking the same questions
    • I find it hard to believe that there isn't a "patch complete" date or time internally where "If it ain't fixed it don't go in", but that would be my way, not yours per se
    The main reasons are the constant circle of "DTG don't tell us nothing", "What's this download?", and "Are bugs even being looked at" posts which a simple adjustment to the schedule of information MIGHT relieve for some people. Not everyone of course
     
    • Like Like x 5
  25. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    786
    I read the Dmitri's apology and fully accept it.
    Mentioned consequences aim towards update procedure tweaks, necessary if some staff members are missing at work.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    It's expected within the industry that release notes (clue is in the name) are released either just before or at the same time as the update is made live. Wikipedia Article for Release Notes.

    The user should never be in the position of having their software altered without their understanding of what is being changed and why. It also helps DTG when it comes to feedback, as if a user is aware of what elements of the software have changed, they are better positioned to give useful feedback on those changes.

    If anyone tells you it's acceptable for release notes to be issued after a patch is made live, you can tell them they are acting against best practice, as well as contrary to the industry norms.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  27. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    3,127
    Ok, noted. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    As well as if it "messes up" they have a clue as to the why of such things. If (like me) people have a habit of leaving their machiens active a majority of the time they may not even notice there has been an update until they hit a newly made issue
     
    • Like Like x 3
  29. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    667
    I don't always agree with Digital Draftsman but it's absolutely true that whoever publishes the patch is not going do so until authorised. It's not rocket science for whoever gives the authorisation to also ensure that
    1. The associated release notes have been written and accurately reflect what's in the patch and
    2. Authorise the web team to publish the release notes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    535
    • Like Like x 1
  31. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,424
    Likes Received:
    18,142
    Surely patch notes are made roughly prior to the update being released? So it can’t be too hard to make a thread on these forums and copy and paste the patch notes you made from earlier and display them in an acceptable format.

    It’s not the first time an update has gone out with no patch notes to go with it. Usually us players are left to speculate what’s changed if none are given.

    Though this update is equally as useful as the patch notes that were given out with it. It offers no benefit to the user or adds or changes the way we interact with the game. If I wanted to access DTG services, then I’d go online to do it. I don’t open Train Sim World to access outdated articles or whatever, I open it to play the game.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  32. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    333
    It would be easy to just publish the release notes the same time as you upload the build to steam/other stores. Since at that point the included fixes are all known and can not be changed anymore. With that the release notes would be public a few hours before it gets downloaded by anyone.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  33. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    I find it acceptable that they can’t release the patch notes first, in case something unexpected happens and the update can’t be launched. It’s ok to have the patch notes come out shortly after the update.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    As has been said, unless there is no authority structure that says "Yes, this patch is finished and can be released" then there is no reason why the patch notes cannot be authorised as part of the same process etc etc
    As someone who does development myself I would never release something that would affect others without giving them SOME notice that what they use is going to change and as many people know, updates have impacts, even if unintended.
    As has also been said, the industry standard is that notes are released in conjunction with or ahead of the patch going live, giving chance for people to prepare for it (even if this is taking a backup of non-centralised content to avoid any issues caused by the update)

    So with respect I disagree that the update NOT being launched should cause issues. We're not talking about putting out patch notes days ahead. Hours? Minutes? maybe
     
    • Like Like x 10
  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    4,026
    Likes Received:
    3,260
    I am in agreement with ARuscoe and Digital Draftsman there should be absolutely no reason why patches notes cannot released at least one day prior to the lease of the update. I find it frustrating to see that there was a update and not know what it was for. Then go to the forums only to find others asking the same thing, and finally get someone who says sorry for the delay here are the patch notes.

    If you know what bugs were fixed then write up the notes to reflect those fixes, and then release the notes first so everyone has the chance to see what was fixed. Then when they go into the game and see if it was fixed or if there are still issues and the problem has not yet been fully fixed.

    By doing this you would get better feedback from us and we in turn would be getting better feedback from you as well, and we can work together to make TSW a better product.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  36. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    440
    On the reason why they implented live and store. I cab see one reason. The places to put routes on the ui where running low. So they had to change it to have that scrolling thing we have now. And with that thing they have taken the oppertunity to out in Live and store is my guess
     
  37. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    Less than a month after I created this thread and yet again another patch has been released without patch notes. The community makes a reasonable request and it goes completely ignored by DTG as usual.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  38. Darthtool

    Darthtool Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    29
    This company goes from bad to worse, what is the point of appointing community managers ans such when you show such little regard for any of your customers anyway.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  39. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2018
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    548
    Anthony says CSX Physics are completed and patched.
     
  40. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2018
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    548
    Just checked, still broken.
     
  41. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    I know. Matt told me that they wouldn’t released yet.
     
  42. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    2,097
    Took a while for the GWE physics to get put in when they were finished. Besides, the studio update a few days ago not only said that they were "days away from completion" (not necessarily complete), but also that thy had to go through thorough testing... now, given the quality of, well, anything DTG has released, I don't know how thorough the testing is is, but it does mean that I wouldn't expect them to be out yet.

    Have patience. They will come. Can't wait for the AC4400CW in all its properly modeled glory!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  43. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    Perhaps the next route, which should be American anyway. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2018
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    548
    So you're saying its gonna be reused engines for new dlc and they will get the fix and not other dlc?
     
  45. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    2,097
    Probably not, they have explicitly made it clear that it will be for all diesel locomotives, just like the already-released GWE update.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    I meant that maybe the new CSX physics may get released along with the next route.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  47. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    What on earth do you mean by "broken"? This meaningless, grab-bag term is used way too often. Tell us what, specifically, does not please you and why. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.
     
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page