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Latest Update & Features Nobody Asked For

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Digital Draftsman, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    As usual there was another update with no explaination of what it was (before anyone says, no, I didn't see the message from TrainSim-Generic on the Discord server or buried in some random thread here or on Steam). Is it really that difficult for DTG to make a post about it in the news section here or on Steam? Regardless, it's a side issue and consistent with the poor communication we've come to expect from DTG.

    What gets me is that the update has included integration of the DTG Store and DTG Live into TSW. These are features which nobody has ever asked for, so why on Earth would you folks at DTG dedicate resources to implementing it, especially when there's a huge list of bugs and missing features that you could throw resources at?!

    Why's it called DTG Live? The most recent article is from weeks ago! Here's a crazy idea, how about an article about this latest update!? If you're going to call it DTG Live, at least put up-to-date info on it.

    Also, why would anyone want to use their game to access the Steam Store when they can already access the DTG Store and Steam Store through both their web browser and the Steam Client itself?

    I saw this latest update and thought for a second there may be some new bug fixes, but alas, it wasn't to be. Rant over...
     
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  2. giogurto_grande

    giogurto_grande Member

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    Very well put, Digital Draftsman, I totally agree. I would also like to point out that the menu interface itself has been made worse with that update. The route list now uses less screen space so just four routes can be seen at once instead of six. At least that's the case at Full HD resolution. And I can't scroll through my routes conveniently using the mouse wheel anymore.

    So, uh, great, thanks.
     
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  3. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Hi Digital Draftsman,

    Apologies with the delay with patch notes delivery - James, who is usually responsible for creating and publishing articles in our live section, had to take a couple of days off due to health concerns. We always aim to get the patch notes released immediately after the update is live, so this case is an exception rather than a rule.

    The team responsible for Dovetail Live is completely different from the QA team. We have released an update for consoles one week ago, and three weeks ago for PC. More updates are coming for TS1 and for TSW when they are past all QA procedures.
     
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  4. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    But I had to download 177mb today?
     
  5. TrainSim-Daniel

    TrainSim-Daniel Staff Member

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    Hi,
    The 177MB update will be the new UI features the op is referring to.
     
  6. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

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    DTG has a Quality department :D
     
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  7. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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    Each time the DTG QA department gets mentioned seems like a joke :D
     
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  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Of course they do.
     
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  9. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    TSW Studio Update

    Here's a behind the scenes look at DTG's QA department:

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
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  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The Studio Update should come this week.
     
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  11. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    You've been on a winning streak lately... the internet is going to run out of upvotes.
     
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  12. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You mean downvotes.
     
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  13. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    Wrong again, AP. Wrong again.
     
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  14. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Cant believe it, hes actually a pro-DTG bot HAHAHA
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I am not a bot. I just like DTG and their products.
     
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  16. theorganist

    theorganist Active Member

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    Same here, some people on here can't seem to accept that many people are getting immense enjoyment from the sim and don't feel the need to come on here typing long wordy posts moaning about DTG and TSW. If it is that bad why bother playing the sim or do some people get more pleasure from constantly moaning?

    As for the excitement about up votes on comments, it is pretty silly really as this place seems to have become an anti-DTG echo-chamber so up-votes do not prove you are right!
     
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  17. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I've once seen anyone deny that some people get immense enjoyment from the sim, after all everyone is entitled to hold an opinion. What I do see quite frequently are people, who post constantly about how great DTG are, trying to shutdown discussions contrary to their view. It's also notable that those same people never actually address any of the issues raised in the discussion.

    You mention this forum being an 'anti-DTG echo-chamber' and conclude that it's that way because 'people get pleasure from constantly moaning'. You're dismissing all the bug filled DLC, all the missing features that have never materialised, the continual delay of the editor as well as the overall poor communication and indifference to feedback displayed by DTG. You're acting as if those things are just some minor issue that people, despite having paid for a product, have no right to complain about.

    At the time of writing, my inital post has 14 upvotes and 2 downvotes. Do you seriously believe that the upvotes are just because people enjoy moaning, rather than a gesture of support for a viewpoint which they resonate with, a viewpoint they have arrived at after purchasing a product and feeling let down by the developer?

    I love train simming and I want to DTG and TSW to be a success, so when I see them taking action contrary to that, I call them out on it. I want DTG to improve their communication, to listen to feedback and make changes based upon it. I don't want the forum to feel like an 'anti-DTG echo-chamber', but if DTG don't change then the forum won't either.

    Bottom line: It's not up to the customers to lower their standards, but for DTG to raise theirs.
     
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  18. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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    Exactly this. I'm personally here since day 1, following DTG and their predecessors. We are talking about more than 11 years. 11, not 2, 11. I would love to see this business succeed, but comparing 2019's DTG with 2008's DTG I see small to no improvement in the community communication strategy or the quality of the released products. Some isolated products have indeed good potential (for example, Ruhr-Sieg), but the overall picture is depressing. With immense respect, but too many people are just in denial.
     
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  19. Matto140

    Matto140 Member

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    Latest Update features are little useless but if DTG want them to implement I have no problem with it.
    Communication about this update is fail, I think Dmitri and team, should make some consequences from it to prevent dependency on one guy.
    TSW is good project, more difficult than TS20XX, so everything needs more time because manpower is limited.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Surprised nobody picked up on this tidbit from Dmitri...
    Immediately AFTER, so people will already be getting the download (and possible issues) BEFORE the notes are released. Maybe, the day before an intended release the notes could be published so as to not "surprise" people rather than doing it after the fact?
    Or just do what other developers do and always release them on the same day each month (thinking MS super Tuesday, Supercell on the second monday of the month et al)
     
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  21. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    I agree. That was my mistake for not sorting out the update notes properly. Some things I'm doing here are still for the first time, so I will take note.
    I'm afraid this is not possible. No point in releasing update notes only to find out that the update was delayed for some reason.

    This is also not possible.

    Regardless, I do not see any problem with our update release schedule, not sure if any suggestions are required for this. Future update notes will be sorted according to our previous procedure.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I disagree on several levels, but if that's DTG's way then we continue as we are
     
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  23. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    I see where you are coming from. Releasing notes a couple of days prior to the update so that people could prepare.

    However, I don't think it is possible right now as we usually find out about the details of the update right before the notes go out.

    I'm not going to chase this unless there is very strong reasoning to get update notes before the update is live.
     
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    • Notification that an update is GOING to be released means that people don't have an unexpected download (and we almost always see "What's this download" posts, so that has been noted several times)
    • If there was an update log post on the stream that was posted in the morning the update was going live then people would be alerted and can keep track of fixed issues rather than five posts asking the same questions
    • I find it hard to believe that there isn't a "patch complete" date or time internally where "If it ain't fixed it don't go in", but that would be my way, not yours per se
    The main reasons are the constant circle of "DTG don't tell us nothing", "What's this download?", and "Are bugs even being looked at" posts which a simple adjustment to the schedule of information MIGHT relieve for some people. Not everyone of course
     
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  25. Matto140

    Matto140 Member

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    I read the Dmitri's apology and fully accept it.
    Mentioned consequences aim towards update procedure tweaks, necessary if some staff members are missing at work.
     
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  26. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's expected within the industry that release notes (clue is in the name) are released either just before or at the same time as the update is made live. Wikipedia Article for Release Notes.

    The user should never be in the position of having their software altered without their understanding of what is being changed and why. It also helps DTG when it comes to feedback, as if a user is aware of what elements of the software have changed, they are better positioned to give useful feedback on those changes.

    If anyone tells you it's acceptable for release notes to be issued after a patch is made live, you can tell them they are acting against best practice, as well as contrary to the industry norms.
     
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  27. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Ok, noted. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As well as if it "messes up" they have a clue as to the why of such things. If (like me) people have a habit of leaving their machiens active a majority of the time they may not even notice there has been an update until they hit a newly made issue
     
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  29. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    I don't always agree with Digital Draftsman but it's absolutely true that whoever publishes the patch is not going do so until authorised. It's not rocket science for whoever gives the authorisation to also ensure that
    1. The associated release notes have been written and accurately reflect what's in the patch and
    2. Authorise the web team to publish the release notes.
     
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  30. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Member

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  31. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Surely patch notes are made roughly prior to the update being released? So it can’t be too hard to make a thread on these forums and copy and paste the patch notes you made from earlier and display them in an acceptable format.

    It’s not the first time an update has gone out with no patch notes to go with it. Usually us players are left to speculate what’s changed if none are given.

    Though this update is equally as useful as the patch notes that were given out with it. It offers no benefit to the user or adds or changes the way we interact with the game. If I wanted to access DTG services, then I’d go online to do it. I don’t open Train Sim World to access outdated articles or whatever, I open it to play the game.
     
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  32. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    It would be easy to just publish the release notes the same time as you upload the build to steam/other stores. Since at that point the included fixes are all known and can not be changed anymore. With that the release notes would be public a few hours before it gets downloaded by anyone.
     
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  33. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I find it acceptable that they can’t release the patch notes first, in case something unexpected happens and the update can’t be launched. It’s ok to have the patch notes come out shortly after the update.
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As has been said, unless there is no authority structure that says "Yes, this patch is finished and can be released" then there is no reason why the patch notes cannot be authorised as part of the same process etc etc
    As someone who does development myself I would never release something that would affect others without giving them SOME notice that what they use is going to change and as many people know, updates have impacts, even if unintended.
    As has also been said, the industry standard is that notes are released in conjunction with or ahead of the patch going live, giving chance for people to prepare for it (even if this is taking a backup of non-centralised content to avoid any issues caused by the update)

    So with respect I disagree that the update NOT being launched should cause issues. We're not talking about putting out patch notes days ahead. Hours? Minutes? maybe
     
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  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am in agreement with ARuscoe and Digital Draftsman there should be absolutely no reason why patches notes cannot released at least one day prior to the lease of the update. I find it frustrating to see that there was a update and not know what it was for. Then go to the forums only to find others asking the same thing, and finally get someone who says sorry for the delay here are the patch notes.

    If you know what bugs were fixed then write up the notes to reflect those fixes, and then release the notes first so everyone has the chance to see what was fixed. Then when they go into the game and see if it was fixed or if there are still issues and the problem has not yet been fully fixed.

    By doing this you would get better feedback from us and we in turn would be getting better feedback from you as well, and we can work together to make TSW a better product.
     
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  36. Piussi

    Piussi Well-Known Member

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    On the reason why they implented live and store. I cab see one reason. The places to put routes on the ui where running low. So they had to change it to have that scrolling thing we have now. And with that thing they have taken the oppertunity to out in Live and store is my guess
     
  37. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Less than a month after I created this thread and yet again another patch has been released without patch notes. The community makes a reasonable request and it goes completely ignored by DTG as usual.
     
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  38. Darthtool

    Darthtool New Member

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    This company goes from bad to worse, what is the point of appointing community managers ans such when you show such little regard for any of your customers anyway.
     
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  39. nne4229

    nne4229 Member

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    Anthony says CSX Physics are completed and patched.
     
  40. nne4229

    nne4229 Member

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    Just checked, still broken.
     
  41. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I know. Matt told me that they wouldn’t released yet.
     

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