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Discussion in 'News & Updates' started by TrainSim-Dmitri, May 6, 2019.

  1. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    For Diesel Electric, you are simulating a generator-motor set, and properly modeling the set's performance at different throttle notches, as well as the way they respond to changes is challenging - but doable and with every Diesel Electric model made, DTG can learn from it.

    As for steam, to properly model it, you have to consider how much fuel is in the boiler, how much water, the temperature, the ambient temperature (if you get that detailed), the pressure, and then the flow. Is it increasing or decreasing? Then how much is there flowing into the pistons, the torque associated with the wheels, all of that. Then modeling the individual animations, gauges, plus modeling a fireman and such.

    Where most modern locos and trains are electrical, diesel, or a combo and the models are established. (ICE, motor models, etc), steam involves thermodynamic models which can be quite complex, and if it's wrong, it won't go over well with the community. I think steam would be cool, but it's something that will come later on once the income for the game is more sustainable and can afford to spend time developing.

    As for the whole "TS20xx has so many modern routes and it's nice to see older routes in TSW", I agree, and I get that argument. These routes though don't really push forward the development of the game though. I feel these routes are more recycling scenery and such. New trains, but that's about it. It would be nice to see a modern British route (fully electrified) just to have something different with EMUs along with longer range trains. I get we have GWE, but I feel TSW has come a lot further since then, and new developments might be cool to see. These routes in some degree appear simpler than more modern routes, but some variety in the DLC would be nice.

    My concern is that if the last few British routes were all throwback/older routes or heritage stuff, is American stuff going to go on a similar path and stay in the NYC area? I'm not against something like a NJT route with multilevels (they would be nice in TSW), but variety is nice.
     
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  2. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Active Member

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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/thornaby-thrash

    Bit more than a clue! So a new class 37 although not a Pacer (yet) but the class 101 with a centre coach. I think the centre coach would be more suitable for the NTP route as by 1989 many heritage sets had been reduced to two coaches to help them maintain timings for second generation units. In 1983 three coach sets would have been more common. Anyway looking forward to this, especially the 37 and in service mode I presume you will be able to sit on the 08 all day doing shunting duties! Will be interesting to see what service mode actually looks like.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For me this would be a question of: Do you want variety that layers on existing content so you end up with a richer experience across the board or do you want loads of routes which you can play one or two locos on?
    From what DTG have been talking about they're expanding the current system "sideways" which allows for cross population of consists, giving greater playable variety on existing routes and when they bring out new routes, they can populate from the existing DLC.
    If you want a modern route with 1 or 2 modern locos, then you're going to get similar issues to LIRR where you only have one sort of stock every so often, because the differentiation of consists just isn't there.

    Added to this that Matt has already said that when they first started making locos they did them in such a packed fashion that they became, in essence, bloatware, so they're doing things a lot differently now and thus able to churn out similar locos like the german ones of late.
    I don't know whether it's "better" to have a lot of locos for the routes we have or a lot of routes, none of which intersect.
    Personally I kind of hoped they would take NTP as a centre and expand from there, giving people more and more opportunity to run scenarios and services across a wider network rather than "run this path up north, then this path down south, then another path over here..." Though that's not been said by anyone else that I've seen, so maybe that's just me
     
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For those not bothering to read...

    "You will be taking charge of the 27-mile section of the Tees Valley Line between Darlington and Saltburn-by-the-Sea as it was in 1989..."
    • Class 37/5 in BR trainload
    • Class 08 in BR Blue
    • Class 101 in BR Blue (3 car variant)
    • BBA Wagons
    • HEA Wagons
    So you have class 101 for the passengers and a load of shunting, freight etc
     
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  6. Jpantera

    Jpantera New Member

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    Day one purchase here, thanks DTG for covering an era which I grew up with. Hope the 37 is loud!
     
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  7. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Interested in the movements in and out of industries. Double headed locos too. As the 47 in NTP, I wouldnt sell the 101 as a new addition just because it has an extra coach. I thought 1989 meant at least a pacer, sprinter or both. Plus ECML station Darlington is going to be populated with 101 DMUs and nothing else?
     
  8. KMAN

    KMAN Member

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    I would of loved to see the 101 in Regional Rail livery but BR Blue will do!!
     
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Only a few class 101's received Regional Railways and not till 1992. None of those were in the North East, most being in Manchester and Norfolk with a handful in the Birmingham area and for some reason one at Plymouth Laira so BR Blue is correct for 1989.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  10. byeo

    byeo Active Member

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    I’d like to drive the Class 37/5 but the 08 doesn’t interest me and the 101 isn’t my cup of tea. I’d love to have seen a Pacer but alas, I must wait. I don’t think I’ll be buying this unless it’s on sale.

    The wait goes on for a fully electric UK route.
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't suggesting it was a new model, I would have liked a Pacer (despite being a huge first generation DMU fan) but I did wonder if we were more likely to get a class 37 rather than a new DMU, I didn't expect two brand new pieces of stock. I would be surprised if a Pacer doesn't follow as DLC. A class 31 would be great too both for this and NTP. A scenario (or service) with a class 31 and two or three mark 2's on a DMU replacement would be interesting.
     
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  12. Cheesypuff2

    Cheesypuff2 Active Member

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    Agreed, the 37 is the thing thats really tempting the rest im not so sure about. I will make a decision after a few more details
     
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  13. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I bought the 182 and the German extras. I was happy with that. I would be a bit disappointed if the passenger aspect of this routes "slot" (if you like). Was taken up by something I already have. Given the substitution options. Then to be sold a 142 or 156 seperately in the future.
     
  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Each to his/her own. I am quite happy with the 101 as I do like these units and they are engaging to drive, I personally will purchase it as soon as it is available. I don't mind paying extra for a Pacer frankly. It is up to the individual if they feel it is "value for money". For me given the time I will spend on it, it is.
     
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  15. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Nice to have a mix of heavy steel trains, shunting and local passenger services. Sounds good. Would be awesome if freight services will be added to NTP as well, or if we can use the class 45 for the new route...
     
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  16. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    No, I clearly remember Matt saying that on a recent stream, too. He might have been talking purely about the simulation aspect, though. He went on to talk about how the tricky part with steam is that it's difficult to operate, and that a fully modelled steam locomotive would simply be too much for most people. Making that gameplay work well in the game is the real challenge, I think.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Probably both. Given the complexity of working with direct driven pistons as opposed than electric motors or diesel engines (for example working with angled boilers, condensation and so on)
    I mean if you have a class 465 that's cold and dark, a class 101 that's cold and dark and an A4 Pacific that's cold and dark I know which would be harder to get going and maintain speed and efficiency.
    I'm sure for some that's a lot of the "fun"
     
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  18. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    BTW anyone else notice one of the cars in the background L MC1705. Its either 13 or17. Leeds-Manchester DLC announced next week?
     
  19. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Active Member

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    What do mean Leeds to Manchester, thats already out.
     
  20. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I believe he may be referring to the freight addon
     
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  21. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    According to the leaked game files (in a thread somewhere on this forum) Theres a class 40 assigned to L MC route as well as tanks and vans. The same files that listed Darlington-Saltburn as an upcoming route.
     
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  22. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I’m really hoping the branch to Boulby is included. It’s absolutely stunning with a climb up and down the coast and has Skinningrove Steel Works and the potash works at Boulby. Both of which are still served by freight trains today.
     
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  23. solon

    solon Member

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    I think you misunderstand my thoughts. I really like TSW. Trains are very well modeled, and I often say that here and elsewhere. Otherwise I will not react in this forum.

    I can also understand, as is the case for this new route, that DTG prefers to recycle work already done for reasons of economy and profitability. But the limit to this is a lack of ambition to attract new players. And new players would improve the income of DTG and thus the diversity content of TSW.

    But, if this new route is of the same quality as the previous ones, sure it will be a good job. Unfortunately, that will attract only a hundred players maximum as usual because it does not bring or little news. And I will not like TSW to end like FSW. TSW could be the future of train simulation.

    Unfortunately on this official forum, we are very few and not at all representative of the train simulator players in the ... (Train Sim) World.
     
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  24. Cheesypuff2

    Cheesypuff2 Active Member

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    Im not sure where you think the recyling has come from? yes the 101 but apart from that it is two new locos in new liverys, new wagons and a new route entirely. I also suspect it will have some new features related to shunting too (fingers crossed). So please explain why you think recycling is going on?
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Also, it's easier to flood a route with three or four units that are close to what they already have than three or four new units which may all be untested or faulty

    They know the 101 works, they know the diesel electric schematic works and the 08 is probably a simple one to get working physically, so I agree with the strategy and hope they will continue to develop for these routes (such as pacers and other wagons etc) which will enrich what we have whilst allowing for expansion.

    Given the class 37 has been around for 5 decades I'm sure we will see this in many UK routes going forward, same for the 47 we have on WSR...

    Goes back to a question I asked yesterday. Would people prefer a few routes in a similar era where they can run more variety of stock or would they prefer a lot of disparate routes with little stock on each route (to begin with)?
     
  26. Cheesypuff2

    Cheesypuff2 Active Member

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    Few routes with variety of stock most defiantly! just because after they did it on german routes i can really see the benefits
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's how I would prefer it too, but then I have a lot of things I would like them to do, doesn't mean they will...
     
  28. solon

    solon Member

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    With the new features of TSW that TS does not have, TSW is not only a train simulator, it also invites you to explore. There are routes that do not interest me particularly, but TSW gives another point of view. TSW is much more "immersive" than Train Simulator.
    I had fun for months with Sand Patch, and still today I enjoy playing it, for example. You have to know how to take risks, and if DTG is not sure of a new model, they can propose a beta version to have the feedback of the players as do many developers, for example for (A/E) Trucks Simulator.

    And then, add content on existing routes as they do it's fine. This does not prevent parallel innovation on new routes.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  29. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Active Member

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    dissapointing, up until christmas i used to purchase every DLC to help support DTG get this game off the ground. everyone has preferences, i know they cant and wont please everyone with content, I prefer up-to-date routes from my country (uk).

    And yet the past two UK routes and loco DLC have all been set back in time.....and now ANOTHER route set back in time.....will not be buying or supporting any DLC or routes anymore as TSW becoming very repetative and boring very quickly. GWE was the best route made even with the bugs yet ZERO DLC or addons made for that route which was the most succesful. Ill stick to JT on ts2019.
     
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  30. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    WSR is not a historic route. WSR is set in the 2010s and just features historic rolling stock because it's a heritage railway.
     
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  31. byeo

    byeo Active Member

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    I’m not a huge fan of the older trains but did buy NTP. I was hoping that when Darlington/Saltburn was leaked that it would be present day only to be disappointed that it’s another route set in the 80’s. That’s fine as people will buy it but I’m not, not this time. It would have to be cheap for me to buy it.

    I don’t know whether DTG are struggling to pick up licences for modern day UK routes/trains so they are knocking out what they can from years ago as they’re easier to obtain (I could be wrong). I’m holding out for a modern (98’ onwards) UK electrified route. I guess I’m going to be waiting at least until September time if not longer.
     
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  32. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Licenses and TOC’s changing all the time must be a nightmare.
     
  33. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be making multiple routes in the same time-frame so locomotives can be used on the various routes -- LIRR is rather boring with one one locomotive.
    I know I have been running the German routes almost exclusively because of the choices of locomotives available. I look forward to DTG doing the same for the current UK and hopefully for the US routes. In TS2019 the routes I run the most are also the ones that have the most choice.
    When they start making modern routes, I hope they do the same of providing several route choices and with plenty of variety of DMU. EMU, Locomotive and rolling stock.
     
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  34. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well, one of the main things with TSW is that it does need more content to truly compete with TS19. This problem is eperhaps the problem that DTG is happiest to clear up because it means more DLC. Now, it would kind of make sense to spread out releases and only just touch different areas / eras, but especially with substitution it would also make sense to fill out certain themes a bit before moving to the next, satisfying the people who are a fan of those themes. Hence the "Modern Urban Electric US," "Modern Electric Germany," and "Vintage British Diesel" themes that have been repeated several times now and DTG probably isn't done with. For Germany, ok yeah they probably are moving on to a diesel DB BR 294 for them, but they might not entirely with the possible "Rostock" route.For the UK, there's still the NTP freight pack coming. For the US, there's no sign of literally anything whatsoever, but they HAVE to be working on something, so who knows... I feel like the next route will move away from New York but the next loco might be and LIRR M3 (just because it makes the most sense to me).
     
  35. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Active Member

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    Looking forward to this route with challenging gradients and hopefully good semaphore signalling.
    Will the 37 be in the same class as the AP ones for TS2019? I hope they are close...
     
  36. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For the sound it almost certainly won’t be as good as AP’s version, partially due to the poor sound engine Unreal uses, and then there’s the recordings themselves.

    The model and detail however will hopefully be better than any 37 which has been made so far for TS1.
     
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  37. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if Im wrong. Ive read on here that the 52 featured AP sounds?
     
  38. xD 2Bad4You

    xD 2Bad4You Well-Known Member

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    I dont think so. The 08 was made by Meshtools, at least partially (Physics, Sound i believe)
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  40. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    So Ed previous TSW work 33 and 45. Excellent. Whos done the 37s?
     
  41. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    The M3 lirr Locomotive Dlc when would that announce by?
     
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  42. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I just guessed randomly that it might be possible, I don't know if it even exists and have no reason to think it does other than it sounds like the kind of DLC DTG makes.

    ...so I can't answer that?
     
  43. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    So, where do you want an electric route, and what type of electricity, a London-area route with 3rd rail, or, a WCML type layout with OHLE? It's over 400 miles from London Euston to Glasgow Central, which little bit would you like DTG to create? Don't forget it takes them about 6 months to do around 40 miles!!!!!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  44. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, there are a lot of smaller sections that could work. Maybe Manchester - Stoke-on-Trent? Could have a 390 and a 323 (and a reused 66, of course- can't forget freight).
     
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  45. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    Absolutely, there are quite a few areas that DTG could have a go at, it all depends on what their timetable of route development is, which we aren't privileged to know, they might have something up their sleeves without our knowledge for the future, and with a Class 66 and a 47 already in the game all they would need to add would be an 86/90/92 for the AC power.
     
  46. byeo

    byeo Active Member

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    I’m not sure what route I’d like, there’s plenty I’d “love” to play but we can’t have everything. As for a third line or overhead again, not sure, I’d be happy with either.

    I understand it takes time to create routes, I guess you missed the bit where I said I could be waiting until at least September if not longer?
     
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Crewe to Liverpool could work, I would like to see the iconic approach to Lime Street in TSW.
     
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  48. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Pushing it perhaps but London Euston to Milton Keynes Central would offer plenty of variety. Featuring Express passenger trains, semi-fast, local stopping, freight services and shunting opportunities in yards.

    Loco DLCs would be popular with this route with the WCML naturally being busy and offer additional services.

    Though I think the majority would like it set in modern days rather than BR for whatever the next British route is going to be, after Darlington - Saltburn is released.
     
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  49. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I suggested that a while ago. Not too far, busy and a good variety of traffic. It would be awesome if it went to the docks at Seaforth as well
     
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  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it would be good to see that included. The railway bridge at Runcorn is quite impressive too.
     

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