1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A Disaster

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by kosti.nuuja, Dec 8, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2020
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    300
    When TSW was released, DTG confirmed that there will be an editor coming for TSW, and they even made a premiere stream of it. But. In the 13 October 2020 I heard some news. There is no editor coming for TSW. First I thought that it should be a dream. How they can do this? After three years. Why? Because it's too complicated to develop. But why they told it now? They should have to tell it much earlier. This is a big disaster and one of the biggest fails in the history of train simulation.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    926
    It sounds like you are now all caught up to speed.
     
    • Like Like x 15
  3. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2020
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    300
    What do you mean?
     
  4. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    348
    Because you are talking about something that everybody has known for a year now...?

    Also the reason is not that it is too complicated to develop. The reason is licensing with the unreal engine (as well as train companies) - this is why they can say that it is never happening with certainty. 3rd party developers will be able to get access to the editor and use it but it is never going to be released to everyone.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    542
    No it's not a disaster.
    Get a grip.
    It's just a disappointment.
     
    • Like Like x 17
  6. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    1,453
    Just for perspective, what are some of the smaller fails of train simulation history? I am no expert in train simulation history...
     
  7. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    469
    I going to guess the OP is going to state something along the lines of pretty much everything the company has produced, I'm just getting a resentful vibe from the message, a deep seated one at that......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    2,216
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    DTG has apologised for ever suggesting an editor was coming to TSW. They acknowledged they got carried away and have since had to reign things back. This is why we have the roadmap now every fortnight to let us know what they’re working on. If it’s not on the roadmap, it doesn’t exist.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Oh my, such a disaster!!!!! How will I live my life after this? The lack of an editor is a grave disaster. Oh no! Will this editor topic ever rest? Train Simulator has an editor. Train Sim World does not. Game over. A disaster for all. LOL
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    3,602
    I was thinking it would be good if someone would start a discussion about the editor, something which has been lacking from these forums!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  11. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    The editor is there, maybe the reason it is not released to the customers is because it is even more unstable than the sim.

    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    514
    happens.

    Its been explained time and time again why its not being made available. Search the forums.

    Regards
    Hentis
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    2,592
    Likes Received:
    5,633
    May I offer my thoughts and prayers to all those affected. I am thinking of you all at this difficult time. Stay strong xxx
     
    • Like Like x 17
  14. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    2,216
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Never has a disaster been more devastating :o
     
    • Like Like x 8
  15. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    469
    No editor in TSW franchise for OP = The very fabric of time and space has been ripped a sunder, and all of the universe as we know it will now be sucked in the cosmic black hole of infinite damnation and torture........

    For me, getting smacked around the head with a frozen kipper is more of a disaster than no editor, but thats just me......
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    So glad I am a member of this forum, such wit Lol.

    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 4
  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    652
    We're not joking, Michael!! ;)

    Seriously, I think most of us would be happy with a proper scenario and consist creator.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  18. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    An editor or multiplayer is not on my priority list, as I prefer TS2021. I do wish TSW 2 was a bit more stable.

    Mike
     
  19. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    309
    tbf it's one of the reasons why many people bought tsw when it first came out
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    720
    I'll be honest, I don't think losing the editor was that awful. It's certainly disappointing, but considering how few high-quality player-made routes there are for Train Simulator, it probably not going to affect most players.

    I'd be just fine with a scenario editor. That's all I want.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  21. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    2,247
    Always assumin someone is hatin on DTG...
    Smh
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    469
    Always assuming that someone is assuming that someone is hating on DTG, well you assume wrong, because assumption in is the mother of all [CENSORED] ups.......
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    392
    Any editor for TSW(2) would likely have required a degree in UE4 not to mention high end 3D modelling and graphics software if you wanted to make your own station signs.
    Besides, sometimes it is just nice to sit back and enjoy what the professionals have created. If you must indulge, then there are plenty of routes still to be done for MSTS/OR, Trainz and DTG TS (Railworks).
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  24. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    I had quite a surprise today, I fell out with Trainz about 7 years ago, with TSW 2 not having an editor i had a quick look on their site I was amazed that my account was still open I signed in and was able to download all my purchases with the latest updates. now i am going to give the editor a try.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Sounds like you need to catch up on TSW history

    Released as PC only game, touted as the successor to Train Simulator
    Make many promises and streams and promises
    DTG decide to release on console, but due to hardware issues (ie much less power or available memory on consoles) couldn't get full consists (but then they messed that up too, so people found a workaround and got full consists)
    DTG then decide to level the playing field and only work on things which work on all platforms BUT (and it's a big but) they don't tell anyone (although anyone paying actual attention to the output notices within a few months)
    Things progress for a while with everyone making post after post about promises this and letdowns that

    Then Sam comes along and DTG start actually saying what they've been doing for about a year
    The world ends...

    Hope that helps, and can we get back to something interesting now?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. guardupfront

    guardupfront Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ah have you been able to?! Amazing, Shall give it a try myself, although not holding out much hope for an account dormant since TRS2004/2006!
     
  27. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    514
    OH THE HUMANITY :o
     
    • Like Like x 2
  28. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    Sorry folks that should have read TRAINZ I have now corrected it, must be an age thing.



    Mike
     
  29. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    503
    Editor exist, you can see the prove about it when Rivet post some screens from making of a IoW.
    Main problem of that editor is, that DTG completely removed cooking inside that editor so even if you have that editor you cant release any stuff with it so only DTG will be able to release that stuff. So you will have to create stuff in the editor and than send it to the DTG and they will decide if they will cook it or not. Of course there is a way how to cheat that, users will just start playing the game from the editor and you will have to share your uncooked content which is not the best option.

    I released consist editor, which is the same as the one DTG is using.
    Scenario editor is basically timetable editor and it is more complex and not that easy to use without map. The same like consist editor, i got my own version which im able to use but that one i will not release it as nobody will be able to use it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    Have i got this right, DTG by not releasing the editor have ensured that they have complete control of anything that is produced for the simulator.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  31. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    503
    Even if they release the editor they will still have complete control what is released for TSW 2 as you will not be able to release it without their help (cooking is disabled - without cooking there is no releasing stuff)
     
  32. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    What do you mean by the word cooking?. sorry if I appear thick but I honestly do not know.

    Mike
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Of course the editor exists, how do DTG themselves produce anything without some form of framework? The question is whether the editor is going to be released to the public in a form that can be used by the majority of people with a shallow learning curve allowing them to produce and release whatever content they can, and the answer to that is no
    The query then becomes "WHY?" and the answer o that is consoles. There isn't a DTG controlled pathway for consoles to edit, publish and put out content (or get it inwards either) because the pathway is controlled by MS or Sony. Steam and PC doesn't have that issue of course, but that's how the mods we already have on PC have happened.

    Personally I can see the good and the bad in an editor and publishable content by 3rd parties but others seem hell bent on there being an editor
     
  34. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    926
    Nope, it actually came down to the IP restrictions between DTG and Epic Games. DTG found out while priming their beta editor all those years ago that Epic Games would not allow DTG to release a modified version of the Unreal Editor as their own software. The Unreal Editor is Epic Games' intellectual property to distribute, not Dovetail's. You can see from their "Studio Updates" from the Before Times that they were set on releasing a public editor to the PC crowd, but then it got swept under the rug after they realised the legal issues surrounding such a public release (that last bit is not written anywhere, but I think Matt covered the topic back in the TSW2 Q&A streams when they finally had to officially say that the editor is not coming).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    I've heard that reason bandied about but not seen it as a specified reason by DTG. DTG have stated that they want the same experience on consoles and PC and have stated that in a few streams with Matt and Sam
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    926
    Forgive me, but I refuse to believe that DTG would forgo the much lamented E-word for the sake of platform parity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Believe what you wish, but I am going only on what they have stated and their actions over time. When the focus was on PC and progressing the game, and when Matt P was espousing loads of possibilities for the future, they put out promises and wants for things like editor, multiplayer etc
    As consoles became "parity", all that stopped. In fact a lot of communication stopped up until Sam came along and blew the lid off a lot off things, and on stream Sam has said (and Matt agreed) that console parity IS a policy of DTG so if they can't get it working on console, and that's not due to a hardware limit of the machine rather than a software one, then they want it all to work the same and feel the same on all platforms
     
  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    2,592
    Likes Received:
    5,633
    If platform parity was the reason for anything not happening then they would not be bringing Raildriver support to PC. The main reason for the editor not being released to the public is what Callum said above.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Raildriver only works on PC in the first place as there are no drivers for consoles. This is why I said above about hardware limitations. I'm sure if there were joysticks / inputs on consoles that PCs didn't have then they would be used.
     
  40. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    503
    There is no restrictions between DTG and Epic Games as many other Unreal Engine 4 games got completely modded editor which you can use only for that exact game and there is no problem with releasing it. DTG is using some payware plugins which are part of the editor... but you will not be able to use them until you got your own license (SpeedTree, WorldMachine - generating real world, InstanceTool, ...). What Matt cover on that stream before was... if consoles cant use it than nobody will. They would like to add tools inside the game like TSXXXX have it so even consoles can use that. But as you can see so far Scenario Planner still in version 1, version 2 is not planned yet (maybe after big core update in summer), Livery Editor still in basic stuff too and that is 4 months after the game release. And still no able to share stuff (only PC users can)

    The game can read only cooked content (cooking content is removing from the files some connections, some not needed informations and leave just basic important stuff the game need).
    If you create some content in UE4 than that file will be .uasset. If you cook it than you will have .uasset and .uexp file - its like compiling sdk - you dont want to share your own code so you just compile it (cook it) and you share just the final product.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    2,216
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    There is no point arguing about why an editor isn’t coming. The fact is, one isn’t coming and we have to like it or lump it. For me personally, driving the trains rather than building the routes is what I play TSW 2 for so an editor either way makes no difference to me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    266
    With respect i don't think people are arguing, more stating their point of view.

    Looking to the future, customers looking to buy a train simulator having, an editor may affect their choice.

    Part of the fun for me is messing about in the editor and I have already re downloaded my Copy of Trainz having lost all interest 7 years ago.

    Personaly not having an editor will be a definate disadvantage if any competition comes along with an editor included.

    Having run a very successful business for 45 years, I promise you, these forums are a godsend for DTG.

    Mike
     
    • Like Like x 3
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Forums are pretty much standard nowadays, maybe not on their own platform (see Reddit) but still

    Agreed a lot of people like editors, but they also cause a hell of a lot of issues so it is a balanced debate
     
  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    652
    As many of us have said, there is a middle ground. Just give us the ability to make our own consists and run them in a proper scenario creator. We don't need to create our own routes or stock to do that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  45. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    720
    The IP issues were specifically stated as being the main reason for the editor being cancelled.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    I haven't seen that stated by DTG on stream or on a post. I've seen a number of other people using it as conjecture. Doesn't mean it hasn't BEEN said, only that I haven't seen it
     
  47. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    213
    disaster no (a sort of) but desillusion from my side definitively yes :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    503
    Just got question for you Crosstie, it may be off topic for this thread but is this your work ? http://crosstiestudios.com/
     
  49. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    1,969
    Because it is too complicated to develop for console players to use. When TSW was first released, it was a PC only game. Now that it is available on consoles, they have to take them into account as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    514
    There were several posts made by Sam explaining why the editor was not fourthcoming. Do a little search on the forums. :)

    Hentis
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page