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A Newbie's Perspective

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JustWentSouth, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Active Member

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    I am relatively new to TSW, so my perspective is different from many on this forum. While the game does have its flaws, I must admit to being surprised at the degree of criticism and vitriol that sometimes appears on this board. The other simulators I have tried can't hold a candle to the graphics and experiences that TSW provides. Here is the review that I posted in Steam for TSW:

    I have a relatively extensive amount of train simulator experience and Train Sim World is simply the best one available. The scenery, RR infrastructure, and rolling stock are near photo quality. The lighting effects continue to amaze me, I love just exploring the routes looking for screenshots. Driving in the cabs is immersive with functional and realistically complex controls and safety systems. There is plenty of AI traffic on a 24 hour timetable and you can walk into any cab to take over or just watch the trains go by. TSW is relatively new and is being improved regularly with head sway added in the latest update. There are updates still to come that would improve the game, but even before they arrive, this game is already stunning. Don't miss it.

    All of this for $29.99 USD that includes 5 routes. If that makes me a fanboy, then I plead guilty as charged.

    So, I would like to express a sentiment that is sometimes rare in this forum: a sincere appreciation for what TSW already provides. While I look forward to improvements to come, I am amazed at the experiences already available.
     
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  2. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is a lot of unnecessary venom from some parties. I think that on the whole the game is really good, but I think a lot of the criticism comes from a frustration that such a good package is let down by what seem to be really minor or careless UX flaws. To have a really complex simulation of a really complex system let down by something like actions not counting properly, Trophies failing to pop, or the whole Mastery thing just not working properly – stuff which feels like it should be an easy fix – is a real shame. But yeah, sometimes it's nice to appreciate the good!
     
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  3. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem :) 10 years of DTG's train simulators have got few people being very disappointed.

    BTW for 30$ the TSW Standard Edition is definitely worth it. Of course, money is a very subjective thing... 30$ could be a big amount for many people and a symbolic sum for others.
     
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  4. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. If you want every DLC made as soon as it appears, we're talking what? 30€ every two months for a new route, plus the occasional extra loco. That's nothing I can complain about, even without being anywhere near Bill Gates levels of wealth.
     
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  5. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    It's good that you come in from an optimistic, "glass half-full" perspective. There is definitely perhaps too much non-constructive criticism around here.

    However, I'd probably one of those people who jumps between both sides of the fence when it comes to the subject of TSW and the communities relationship with DTG.

    First up, yes $30 for a few routes is a good deal. However it does become more painful when you slowly become interested in the DTG ecosphere. This is when you pay $25-$30 for a new DLC route, only to find it has half the trains it should have, half the services it should have, half the functionality, and in some cases... half a route. Then you notice bugs, missing signalling that should be integral to the simulation, and report them to DTG. Maybe 10-20% of those bugs will get noticed by DTG, and then it will be off to the next DLC.

    Second, I actually believe TSW is a fundamental step-up in terms of simulation, graphics and the engine it stands on. Unfortunately, DTG hardly ever utilize 100% of those features to their benefit (mostly DLC is visually based, with some new operation being an integral selling point of the dlc.) Biggest example I can think of is CSX Heavy Haul. This a route that has everything : good distant scenery, an extremely detailed selection of locomotives, dynamic weather on scenarios, freight loading setups, challenging gradients that really show off the power of simugraph, fuel loading. I can't think of another route that really takes advantage of TSW's core features in such a way. TSW also has features that really are a significant downgrade compared to other unreal titles (audio and weather).

    Third, I think alot of the antagonistic behaviour around TSW is really self-inflicted. Including :
    - The confirmed announcement of multiplayer in their first trailer for the game (No-where to be seen)
    - The announcement of an editor (Whilst I'm confident it's coming, there has been no update on it since this time last year)
    - The plethora of bugs (NEC signalling, lack of TPWS on ECW, Attempting to sell another locomotive on Rapid Transit with broken PZB)

    On the flip-side, I think it is clear that the TSW team have put alot of effort into the title, and is clearly the title that receives the most changes due to feedback. So it is only natural that TSW will evolve into something better overtime, and there is a defined roadmap. I just see a few dirty old habits that are creeping their way into what should be a fresh-start.
     
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  6. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The RT PZB was fixed.
     
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  7. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I agree there’s no need for the vitriol but take this as an example of why many will disagree with the OP...on the latest DLC (ECW) the signalling is completely screwed and contributes virtually nothing to the simulation. Almost none of it works as it should.

    Many of us are not newbies, and have spent a small fortune on TSW already. Like it or not, releasing things in this state is just not acceptable. TSW deserves praise for many aspects of the game, but the areas that need work are so numerous (and so obvious) that it is extremely frustrating when stuff gets released like ECW has been. When UK signalling (something they have years of experience getting right in TS1) is completely messed up on a 25 mile route something isn’t right.

    A couple more examples from the many that exist...

    - it’s frustrating to know that platforms etc. used to get wet when it was raining. In the last couple of DLC that has just disappeared and despite heavy rain, platforms stay dry.
    - flange squeal is missing from the 377 (it’s been confirmed that it should be there)
    - many buildings don’t have separate night texturing (as in TS1) so at night your route will either be pitch dark, or you’ll have a weird glacial reflection off windows

    and so on.

    It’s great you like the game and the newer releases of the ‘base game’ are undoubtedly great value for money, but bear in mind many of us paid full price for those DLC and used them when they were bugged to hell. A number of them still are. The good news is that the dev team are open to it constructive criticism and are already aware of many of the problems. They just don’t have the time or resource to sort them all out quickly.

    So on that note, given DTG are the only game in town and you don’t have the option to take your business elsewhere if you’re into train simulation, I agree criticism should be kept constructive but it doesn’t alter the fact that it should be made where appropriate. See if you still feel the same way after you’ve bought a few DLC at full price on release day...
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  8. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There will be patches. Probably not until next year though. DTG is shut down for the Christmas season.
     
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  9. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Ideally, they would have corrected it before publication.
    Out of respect for those who buy their DLC.
     
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  10. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It should never have been released like that Anthony. There’s no excuse for it.

    It’s hardly like it’s the first time they’ve had a crack at it. They’ve had UK signalling functioning correctly for the best part of 10 years in TS1.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  11. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Well-Known Member

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    Im inclined to agree with you Hightower. I see nothing wrong with setting high standards, and striving to meet them. From a purely commercial perspective defining the brand as reflecting excellence makes sense. Its always struck me as an odd business practice to accept anything less because the moment a viable competitor comes along customer loyalty will become extremely valuable, and if its missing the competitor has to work less hard to take your customer base away. I would have thought this would have been obvious, but on the flip side I also understand the pressures that a short term cash flow problem might create within the company which can then affect the brand.
    To be fair I think DTG are showing signs of listening, and I would hope that the trend continues, even within the context of the balance between excellence and market forces. Im an example of a customer who went a long time and several DLC without purchasing because I couldn't trust the quality. Regarding ECW Im very pleased with some aspects, less so with others, and on balance it would not take much for me to turn away again for another prolonged period away from the product until I saw evidence or quality improvements.
    My personal gripes are identical to yours, with the addition of station lights shining through the roof of the cab ruining shadows (and immersion), poor sound quality (due limited channels available but who's choice was it to run this engine and did they know this limitation-if not why not), and numerous other smaller gripes that I wont go into here. It can be so much better- so I hope they strive to make it better.
    I still have to make engine.ini tweaks to stop popping and improve other elements like shadow draw. Im a patient guy, but really should I be viewing this as the new normal? I'd hope not, and I hope DTG hope not too.
    Im seeing good steps forward- life on the ECW means its now a more believable and immersive world. Lets get the quality control up there too!
     
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  12. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome JustWentSouth and I agree wholeheartedly to this; I too have gotten gullible at times with opinions on TSW, but it’s taken a good curve with ECW. I own TS2020 and although i go back to it at times, it isn’t as fluid or as exemplary as TSW - TSW just needs some touches here and there; better use of weather effects and proper rain fall, the rain fall looks like needles falling. I got the bundle last year and glad I did
     
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  13. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    White there are some really great aspects to TSW, and it is improving thankfully, I think many of us were disappointed because the so called "Next Generation of Train Simulation" didn't even have many of the features of the previous version of simulator that DTG produce, TS20xx had when TSW was released. For example, RailDriver Support (isn't even talked about any more), an editor (still waiting), lighting in tunnels (was finally fixed), awful locomotive physics (has been greatly improved), cab sway, (just added finally). It was just a real disappointment to wait for this new and wonderful simulator only to find out that in a lot of aspects it was worse than the previous version, I think it left a bad taste for many. I guess I was wrong to expect the new and improved version to at least work as well as the old one.

    Also, and as some have mentioned, it often gets SO CLOSE to being great, but there are a few problems that don't get fixed that ruin the realism. If DTG would just do a better job on quality control it would got a LONG WAY to improving things.

    All that being said with the improvement in locomotive physics, which is extremely important to me, and the addition to cab sway, I'm enjoying TSW a LOT more, I had pretty much quit using all together, now I do run it more frequently.

    If we can just get RailDriver support, an editor, and a good American Freight route, IMHO it will finally surpass TSxx. Which will take how many years after release? Time will only tell.
     
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  14. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    A third party is working on Raildriver support If you weren’t aware.
     
  15. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I paid £124.95 for the exact same content which the OP claims is good value for money at $29.99. Maybe that's why some of us feel as though we have been short changed over the last few years.

    If you buy a bundle of old DLC (which is fundamentally what the base game is) for 20% of the original value, of course it's going to seem like a good deal. Even I'd agree it was great value if every DLC was £4.99, but they're not, they're £24.99, so I and many others expect more for our money.
     
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  16. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm watching that thread and looking forward to when it is released so I can try it out.
     
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  17. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    It has been released. Its not perfect, but, the author is working on it, and adding trains as he progress. I'm having fun with it. It is now in version 1.1, and can be gotten at Railsim-fr(dot)com
     
  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Have a link?
     
  19. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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  20. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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