A Poll About Licensing...

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by hightower, Nov 18, 2020.

?
  1. Only routes with official branding

    64.0%
  2. Routes be made regardless of official beanding

    33.5%
  3. Not Sure

    2.5%
  1. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    No-one is breaking anything and I'm trying to show you it can be done totally legally which it is in other games but you seem hellbent on pointing out it isn't even though I given you examples of games that do it very successfully. And just to point out that if you think UEFA are just getting money for licensed badges you are mistaken.

    If other companies have different ways of doing it so what? So what? What that shows is that DTG could do it perfectly legally and shows they are either lying or being very lazy about it.
     
  2. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what other game designers choose to do, forum opinions, or online polls, Dtg will be following the instructions of their own legal advisers.
    They also need to consider dealing with these companies in the future, even if they have no plans to do so at present.
    After all they have over ten years of experience with Ts to fall back on.
     
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  3. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    The games I have and been involved in have been going for longer and they seem to have no problem with anyone. Going back to Konami they have no problem with FIFA or UEFA. I understand what you are saying but I see it as a false reason. Lets say DTG release a route with fake trains on it or fake everything and also released an editor for people to create there own version. DTG can no way be liable for what the public do and if say the company did have a problem, firstly they could no do anything about it and secondly if they truly were that worried about it why did they not licence it?

    If you say DTG have to rely on their own legal advisers then perhaps they should invest in better advice eh?
     
  4. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that every legal consultation puts another ten euros on the price of each route....
     
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  5. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    Manchester United sued a company for 3rd parties being able to modify a game with their logo, being seen as encouraging the bypass of the license.
    I would suggest licensing could be a bigger minefield than many think.
     
  6. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and expensive which is why Konami's approach should look attractive to smaller companies.
     
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  7. HerrBag

    HerrBag New Member

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    I would go for unbranded, if I could add back self-made branding in the Livery Editor (or perhaps get ahold of fan based livery libraries)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
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  8. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Unbranded routes would not feel authentic- they need to work with the operators to go to the stations and network to do some research- as mentioned with an interview with Geoff marshall
     
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  9. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It depends, as some operators (such as Northern and I believe Avanti) only put branding on trains they've repainted and bear their livery - the trains in the previous operator's livery may be left unbranded. See this ex-First ScotRail Class 156 and ex-Northern Rail Class 142, both being operated by Northern.

    Obligatory disclaimer: Both images were taken in 2019 when it was acceptable to go out, the bottom picture taken at a depot open day.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Edit: dunno why the images are slightly stretched.
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Even though I purchased unbranded locos in TS20XX, I wouldn't do so now. I agree with those who say it reduces authenticity.
     
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  11. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    Without the real branding, routes won’t feel as authentic, and the trains will definitely feel out of place. At least for as long as we can't share liveries. If they ever let us do that...well, Orange & Black Heavy Freight, here I come...
     
  12. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I should have added that after buying unbranded locos in TS20XX, there is usually a 3rd party source which would add the logos aftermarket in downloadable form. This isn't possible in TSW (I'm dropping the "2" from now on, it's superfluous).
     
  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Try telling Coca-Cola's lawyers that.
     
  14. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    The challenge is that by saying you don't want anything unlicensed, you are immediately killing the chances of bringing a number of real trains to TSW. I personally fail to see how logos are of more value than the trains and routes themselves, and to use my most hated analogy, it's a train simulator, not a logo simulator...
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Of course it requires a license. British Rail may be no more, but somebody (possibly HMG) still owns its trademarks. The same applies to EWS- that livery wasn't public domain, DTG had to get the license from Deutsche Bahn. Ditto for all the numerous 'fallen flag' railroads in the USA, although many of them are owned by CSX or UP, so DTG probably could make a deal (as they already have for the Clinchfield).
     
  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    How many FWS trains have you seen recently?

    67 FWS.jpg
    FWS 60.jpg
    Peter
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Bethesda isn't licensing real-world IP. No Virgin or BNSF logos on Skyrim or Fallout.
     
  18. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    None, but would you rather JT never made a 60 or 67? It's not exactly a hard change to make either.
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Licensing is only an issue if the IP holder's lawyers want it to be.

    Usually, they do.
     
  20. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    The double arrows and a number of other BR trademarks are now held by the UK DfT.
     
  21. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Although much of the Railfreight sectors branding is controlled by DB, strangely enough. They actually have more active trademarks on BR-era imagery than EWS-era.
     
  22. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Double Arrows is property of the DfT, since it's still used by them. Most brands before the double arrows (late crest, cycling lion, LNER, LMS, Southern, etc.) is through the NRM I believe.
     
  23. ex-railwayman

    ex-railwayman Active Member

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    But, the DfT is State owned, ie, by us, the nation, we pay for everything, the Government doesn't have it's own money, it has OUR money. British Rail was a state owned rail operator, EWS, FGW are commercial enterprises owned by private equity companies, who obviously protect their copyrighted logos etc, perfectly fine and legitimate, there is a massive difference.

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
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  24. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Even with livery designer v1.1 we can get a good representation of the liveries we want to use. If DTG can get the rolling stock, the sounds and route, then yeah. Leave the rest to us.
     
  25. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    You really still need to get permission to reproduce or display any of the branding they hold.
     
  26. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I see where you're coming from. Due to MSTS, I have a lot of nostalgia for BNSF and would love to see them in TSW, but not unbranded. It just wouldn't feel authentic to me (this is, of course, subjective). I want to immerse myself in TSW and just having an unbranded, orange loco wouldn't cut it for me.

    Yes, only creating branded content does limit the possible routes/locos quite significantly, but unbranded content would not feel like a train simulator for me (again, this is subjective).
     
  27. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I think we’ll see a decent example of what the community can bring to the table when the ECW livery function comes out followed by SEHS. The only thing Id miss would be the new PIS. “Operator South Eastern” is a nice touch that we’d be without. For stations and signage Im sure we could start having our own station signs and props.
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You don't think the British Government protects its IP zealously? Look into the regulations governing Crown Copyright.

    "the Government doesn't have it's own money, it has OUR money"
    - A cynic might think that naive.
     
  29. ex-railwayman

    ex-railwayman Active Member

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    What's cynical about the truth?

    Anyway, much Crown Copyright material is made available to use free of charge under the Open Government Licence (OGL) and no other licence is required. This includes legislation, government codes of practice, government reports, official press releases, government forms and many public records.
    Where Crown copyright material is covered by the Open Government Licence, you can:
    • Copy, publish, distribute and transmit the information
    • Adapt the information
    • Exploit the information commercially and non commercially, i.e. by combining it with information of your own.
    Cheerz. Steve.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And next time DTG wants to include the text of legislation or of an MfT press release, they will have no legal issues......
     
  31. ex-railwayman

    ex-railwayman Active Member

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    That's their legal lookout, why should I care, I'm a veteran customer, not an employee!!!!

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And therefore located downstream.....
     
  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The fact they have released many add-ons in BR livery and being that they are obviously very careful about agreeing licences suggests that they either have a licence or don't need one.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The former.
     
  35. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to guess the former too given I believe they ran into licensing troubles with Isle of Wight which is why it isn't all branded up for Network SouthEast?
     

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