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A Roadmap For Train Sim World In 2020 ?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by solon, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. solon

    solon Active Member

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    Hello,


    I am very worried about the turn made for this game which interests less and less people, except the passionates of the lines German or English. We are soon at the end of the year and the scenario editor has completely disappeared. It should have already been released.
    There is no information on future development and especially how the game will evolve and diversify to be more attractive.

    Like many other players I stopped buying DLCs since October. DTG communication on this game is bad top. And I do not trust anymore. If it is a financing problem, propose us an ambitious roadmap with a possibility of crowdfunding....

    Many studios have a public roadmap and it's very interesting to know where we are going when we buy a game in development like TSW.

    Unfortunately for me, at this point and without any real communication about the future of TSW by DTG, this game is dead today. But I still hope that it can evolve.
     
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  2. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The problem is you never know if DTG are being honest. With Flight Sim World DTG acted as though everything was going really well and the future was bright right up until they annouced it was cancelled. With TSW they often say bug fixes or new features are coming and yet they never actually arrive, or the new features arrive but they are not implemented on the existing DLC. At this stage we're lucky if we even get patch notes.

    As for the Editor, it was originally supposed to be released in 2017, then 2018, then 2019 and now one assumes 2020, though they seem to have stop pretending that it's actually coming now.

    They have effectively burned all their bridges of communication as nothing they say can really be trusted. It will take a lot to earn that trust back. If there's no Editor, they should have the decency to say so. If they're not going to fix bugs or implement new features on exisiting DLC they should have the decency to say so. At least it would be honest, and if DTG have to deceive to stay in business, they probably need to change the way they do business.

    It's sad, because this is a great hobby with a great community and I feel as though DTG are doing a disservice to them, especially as many have not only supported RSC/DTG through their custom over the last 10+ years, but they have actively contributed content to Train Simulator 2020 which DTG have profited from, and let's face it, the community was pivotal in making TS2020 the success it has been over the years.

    Will things change? I hope so, but I won't hold my breath.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    No new features? How do you explain head sway being introduced then?
     
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  4. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    It is thin on the ground even with the info for ECW, Thursday will reveal all.
     
  5. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    DD,

    I have always respected, and agree with, a lot of what you say. I felt the treatment you got on these forms earlier this year was bang out of order. However, I have to say I completely disagree with the majority of your previous post.

    I do agree that what is going on with the editor is just plain weird. There has clearly been a decision to simply no longer refer to it, and when asked simply say ‘there is nothing I can say about that’. I don’t see a conspiracy theory, but I do find it utterly bizarre. Only DTG know why. I’m hoping they will announce its arrival alongside the first 3rd party DLC but honestly, who the hell knows? As I said, it’s just odd.

    With that said, I honestly don’t see this constant connection that you make between FSW & TSW. What they did with FSW sucked but to put it simply, if TSW goes DTG are done and it’s bye bye Train Sims as we know them. I believe that whilst DTG exist, so will TSW. Given DTG’s purported financial performance there is nothing to worry about in that regard.

    What I can’t agree with at all is the suggestion that they don’t update older DLC or bring new features. Every DLC release normally brings with it both, something new (be it a technique, or different way of doing things) and generally a patch that fixes bugs on older products. I just don’t get how you can say that isn’t the case. It’s demonstrable fact. As you know, a major new feature is coming in 3 days that is applicable to all DLCs. Alongside that are a number of fixes for other DLC.

    Essentially, DTG don’t owe us anything. I am a firm believer that treating your customers with respect, keeping them informed about your products, innovating to stay ahead of the competition and simply not ripping people off are the basics on which every business should be built. How DTG conduct themselves is their business and should we not like it, we simply don’t buy their products. That’s a decision for everyone to make individually.

    Whilst there is very much room for improvement, and I’m dismayed at the tendency towards short routes, I for one don’t believe TSW and DTG are half as bad as some make them out to be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  6. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow one feature in +3 years development! wohoo yeah, revolutionary . . .
     
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it would be good to have some information regarding the editor, however they say no news is good news! There could be a myriad of reasons why it isn't available yet, presumably it is just not ready.

    To start questioning the honesty of people is going too far, these are people posting on here you are slating.

    You are clearly passionate about the hobby (as I would think most on here are) but you almost seem to trying to turn it into an us against them scenario!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  8. Tadeus72

    Tadeus72 New Member

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    I'm coming from other sims and I can say it's pretty common for UE4 based titles. They allow the developers to start out with great graphics, lots of modern features and potentially console support but then they simply hit a wall and everything new requires crazy amounts of optimization, months of trail and error, hacking and simplifying. Especially if they also go for the consoles. For me it's pretty much the bane of a lot of sims that I like and a trap for the developers.

    I believe that DTG was honest in their plans but they simply haven't anticipated how difficult to overcome the limitations will be. I mean the engine doesn't even allow for a solid soundscape that is needed for a sim without issues.
     
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  9. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    What game engine could of DTG used? I’m not a programmer so wouldn’t know the other options.

    Cheers
     
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  10. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    BF44BCB2-4593-4F8B-A8D0-B9DA50FDAD6A.jpeg I think a roadmap would be something really awesome to have especially for the people who are really passionate about Train Sim World but it’s really a double edged sword. There would be people that are happy with what their plans are for the year but we also would have people who were unhappy. You also run into the problem of something changing. I know Battlefield 5 had a lot of backlash from players because of a roadmap that was published but the company had to make changes and it really upset a lot of people. Unless DTG have a plan that they could stand behind 100% I think a roadmap would cause more problems then anything. Would it be nice to have a rough outline of when we might see updates or locomotive/route dlc, yes, as long as they didn’t go into details or get to far ahead of themselves. I wouldn’t want to see them get backed into a corner. For example.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  11. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    You're correct, we get cabsway and I specified 'often' rather than always, as occasionally we do get something. But in this latest DLC what we don't get is destination displays for the Class 166 (As featured on the 377) or the complete update for the Class 66 in GWE. Matt said that if you want the fully updated Class 66 in GWE, you'll have to buy it again through SCW, which I think is a bit off. I distinctly remember at the time GWE was released that DTG gave the impression they would be adding PIS, station announcements, destination displays, flashing yellow signals, ATP etc etc. None of that has happened.

    I'm not aiming this at anyone who posts here. They deliver the message they are given by the relevent department in DTG. Dmitri probably knows as much about what's happening with the Editor as we do. So I'm not aiming any of this at him, Steve or anyone else posting here. This is leveled at DTG, the company as a whole and the policy they have adopted regarding communication.
     
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  12. NekoNina

    NekoNina Well-Known Member

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    And what exactly are you trying to achieve here, Digital Draftsman? Nothing will change, you're just wasting your time and in the meantime taking away the fun from other players.
    If I was in your position and unhappy about DTG's business practices, I'd either comment once or twice on it and then realize that nothing will change, or I'd apply for a job at Dovetail to actively have a say in what the company does.
    All you're doing is complaining every day about the same stuff. If you think you'd be a better CEO than whoever runs DTG, then go for it.
    Doesn't it get boring or frustrating at some point that you don't change anything except making this place more toxic than it already is?
    I can't tell you what to do, but just an observation.
    Good night.
     
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  13. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I dislike to see other members taking a dig at other members, Its not called for we’re all entitled to our opinion; and a lot of us are passionate about this hobby. Digital Draftsman like myself and many others just want to see the best and better.

    Doesn’t have to be perfect but this platform TSW is really the business and I for one look forward to some sort of progression update, however small. Just saying
     
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  14. NekoNina

    NekoNina Well-Known Member

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    I am completely fine with everyone expressing their opinions, but it gets rather annoying to see every forum thread turning into the same, old argument. And it's always the fault of certain individuals making this place less and less attractive.
     
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  15. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I have applied to work at DTG, both pre and post and TSW. Despite having management experience on the real railway as well as developing for Railworks/TS, both solo and as a contractor for other developers, I have never even been awarded an interview with them.

    All I can do is develop for TS2020 in my spare time and express my opinion here. I might create a YouTube channel or a review website at some point, but there's not much else I can do.
     
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  16. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I just think its unnecessary to dig at the next person whom you don’t agree with. It just shows the character of said individual.

    Keep up the good work with that
     
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  17. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely watch your YouTube channel if you make one. Too many YouTubers who post train sim videos just post their game play with no commentary or anything useful. It would be good to have someone knowledgeable do a channel where we can learn from them and enjoy viewing content. I may not agree with everything you post, but who agrees with everything anybody posts? I can see that you have a lot of insight and knowledge about trains and sim development. A channel would be cool.
     
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  18. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to explain head sway being introduced because my post didn't say anything about 'no new features' or 'head sway being introduced.'

    I said often DTG say bug fixes or features are coming but they never arrive or are not applied to current DLC. PIS, Destination Displays, Flashing Yellow Signals and ATP on GWE for example.
     
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  19. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    I think most of us would be happy with anything that gets officially communicated from Dovetail, not necessarily a detailed roadmap with timelines. At the moment the only time we hear something official is when new DLC is released, which creates mixed reactions (finances always do). Even if it's the developer diaries about how they made certain parts of the sim and are continuing to improve on it, like what they used to send out. We're not asking for the company to divulge their deepest secrets and would never expect them to do so. How hard is it, though, just to communicate with your customers / audience and give them a few nuggets of information in-between releasing new DLC? I think it would be a nice start, anyway.
     
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  20. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    The headsway I am so keen to see in action, Thursday isn’t far away but still
     
  21. pbasu

    pbasu New Member

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    changes for the better will happen if the game is returned MS.
     
  22. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Serious BS!!!!! Matt streamed another editor demonstration on Twitch recently -- it may still be available for viewing.
     
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  23. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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  24. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    For those who are unaware there is an option under user settings to "ignore" certain posters. I very rarely use this option but it can make the forums somewhat more pleasant.
     
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  25. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    I very like the TSW. it has a lot of potential. but it is not used the way I Like.
    I like freight routes and long routes. It is just one route here CSX Heavy Haul. that is it.
    But in TS2020 it comes so many long freight routes but i dont like the simulator here.
    I want this to TSW. But more and more of routes is short routes and many with more commuter trains.
    I am not interested in this and not buying them.
    So I think the editor should do it comes so more long freight routes and mixed routes.
    If Dovetail tell us what happening with all development around TSW
    I would be much more forgiving and understand their situation. but now you are almost annoyed at them instead.
     
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  26. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve only muted a couple in my lifetime - although I only check to see the latest
     
  27. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link to it? I can't find it.

    Matt did a stream showing the in-house build of the Editor about a year or so ago. As far as I am aware the public build of the Editor has never been shown.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  28. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    He’s trolling.
     
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  29. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I have found what he is referring to but it isn't something new it is the stream of the editor from last year. You can find on Dovetail's twitch under videos
     
  30. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Who gives a crap about head sway? If they came out with some REAL new features like an editor and other kinds of 3rd party support, this game would be booming. I think DTG is pulling an Apple or a Nintendo here, where they want everything to be internal and run through them, which is why you don't see an editor. Maybe they gave it an honest thought at one point, but I think they had second thoughts not long after that.
     
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  31. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The editor is still in development. It is coming.
     
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  32. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    How do you know? or are you just speaking positively?
     
  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well obviously you don't! Doesn't mean you are in the majority.
     
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  34. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Adding an option to disable a feature is a good way of implementing a new component. I'm very pleased they finally did something properly with cab sway in this sense.

    They actually did very well with the new update, nice bunch of welcome fixes and improvements (https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-sim-world-pc-updates.15077/#post-107361).

    What I cannot understand of this company, and they are really particular in this sense, is the almost total absence of official communication. Why, for example, do not talk about the new cab sway feature during development? I think it took a couple of months probably to develop, they could have shared few details about in the previous weeks. Same applies for other fixes... why don't talk about "MSB -> Added schedule times to all stops on the timetable services.". To add the stop times was not yesterday's decision for sure, they could have talked about this in some way (eg. a dev blog). And no, the "development goals change too often to talk about them", it's not an argument as software development does not work like that.

    The suggestion to publish a tentative roadmap of upcoming features would definitely alleviate this problem, without necessary lead to "broken promises" if communicated correctly.
     
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  35. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Train Sim Community Discord.
     
  36. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    And here is not an "official" DTG forum?
     
  37. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Well I sure do! It's a simulator, meaning REAL features like head sway should be included first. If you want things like the editor over real world features, go play trainz.
     
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  38. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    That's highly questionable, considering how poor in terms of realism TSW is in many aspects, for example night driving. In addition, they strongly stated multiple times that the teams behind things like the editor or bugfixes in general are separate from the others.
     
  39. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't. He's just one of those people who believes EVERYTHING DTG says, like they can do no wrong.
     
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  40. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    What a strange thing to say. The Editor would allow for more 'real features,' as you put it, because the number of people working on developing the game would increase massively.

    Examples from the early days of Rail Simulator would include things like the script which added flashing tail lamps to the back of trains, the script which allowed objects (doors, GSM-R handset cables etc) in the cab to move in response to the movement of the train, as well as more realistic physics; These were first developed by third parties. Not to mention the huge number of real world routes and rolling stock which have been developed by third parties. In fact, the majority of TS2020 DLC is created by third parties through the use of the Editor.

    We've already got a third party in TSW changing the GUI and allowing users to drive trains on several different routes. So even without the Editor third parties are already improving TSW. So if you want more 'real features' then you should also want the Editor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  41. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Lol, how do you know? Because the almighty DTG said so? They've been saying that same thing since the game launched and we still haven't gotten an editor. If they really are developing an editor (which I highly doubt), it had better be the biggest and best editor ever if it takes this long to develop. Stop believing all this crap DTG is feeding people about the editor, because it's probably not coming, and that's what's gonna be one of the main factors that leads to the death of this sim.
     
  42. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my point. Although I do agree wit him on one point. Trainz does currently have the best editor of any train sim currently on the market in my opinion.
     
  43. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Matt said it on his own stream last night that the editor is coming, but could not elaborate when it will be out.
     
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  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    When it comes, of course you will be the first person here eating humble pie!
     
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  45. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what has been said for almost three years. Over a year ago they claimed they were ready to conduct a public beta, now over a year later, nothing. Apparently they went from being confident enough to announce a public beta to being blind sided by a problem that has taken over a year fix. They developed the whole base game, in-house Editor and 20 DLCs in less time than it's taken to create the public version of the Editor. They also claim the Editor is a high priority, imagine if it was low priority!

    There's two options:
    1. DTG lied when they said it was high priority and it's in fact very low priority, hence the extraordinary development time.
    2. The Editor isn't coming, either because of techincal reasons or business reasons.
    Don't take that honor away from me! I've already made a jug of custard to go with my slice!
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I prefer double cream personally, I can never get custard right!.
     
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  47. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I want to go with option 1 due to the fact that they are the only ones currently making content for the game right now. The combination of making routes and ensuring the editor works properly are slowing things down.

    We can only hope that the editor will be released as a Christmas present to all, or early in the New Year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I was starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong and the editor wasn't coming as it had gone quiet.

    However, if Matt has mentioned it again then I am willing to believe them as I cannot see why they would be stringing users along, it would be better for them just to say so if that was the case and get it out of the way.

    I am happy to wait to be honest as I am not sure I would personally use it much as I spend most of my time in service mode.

    My hope for the next twelve months is the release of some steam engines (and a period route for them) and the editor, It would be great to see some third party creators currently releasing DLC for TS1 to start working in TSW.
     
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  49. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I agree I cannot see Matt stringing people along as it would not look good for him. So for now it is game of just waiting for it to be released and enjoy the game itself.
     
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  50. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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