1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Acceleration / Braking Without Limits?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Railmaster, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Railmaster

    Railmaster Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    14
    Hi guys,

    as far as I know, wheel slip doesnt do matter in TSW, so also the same with the sand?
    Independently of any ambient. Just a not working feature by the game-physics. Ok...

    But...
    There are some locs with an acceleration-meter, some with an ampere-meter, other ones without this, so you have to value it. Ok...
    The locs with the amperemeter, schouldnt drive into the red area, or it is here all the same?

    Today I drove the class 166 on GWE and could see, that smooth acceleration doesnt matter, but rocket-starts from 0-7 helps to keep the timetable. Can this be realistic or just
    unconsidered, like wheel slip/sanding?
    Same as breaking- why smooth breaking- to break in full service make it right to!
    Does it play any role in the physics and the gameplay? This aint more car-racing...

    Then I drove the class 66, there max. speed should be 75mph. Got a trophy while hit 76 but no further penalties above/between track speed limit. Think, its not a limit of the game.

    Does the gameplay and his physics has no influence of starting like a rocket and breaking like an elephant? Becauce of couplings, passengers and so on? No Limits in acceleration an braking- just anything goes?

    How can all of this be explained? I just want to understand it. :)

    (Hope you understand my broken english...) ;-)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  2. Bkulesza

    Bkulesza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    42
    I have for sure caught wheel slip in the 37 & the 45.
    Just yesterday, my first go at ECW, I caught wheel slip while braking. It was on the viaduct that takes you into Brighton. No power applied, just on B1, a very brief display on either side of the speed counter. I had never experienced that one before..
     
  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    354
    Services driven with the Class 66 on the slow lines in GWE actually have to be driven at a maximum speed of 60mph for most of the route as there are different speed limits for locomotive powered trains and DMU's. These can be seen on the signs on the track but don't show up in the HUD like on some other routes, so there is no penalty for speeding if you stay below the DMU speed limit. GWE will probably always be like this but newer routes do have differential speed limits enforced.

    Gentle starts and braking are left to the player to do if they like and you currently won't get wheel slip on most trains. Scoring for those features are not currently implemented but maybe one day passenger comfort could affect your score. I certainly hope so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    133
    As far as I know, on the East Coastway and Great Western Railway, there is no wheelslip or wheelslide as the train accelerates and brakes exactly the same no matter the conditions. This also means the sander button doesn’t function in the cab. Obviously in real life, when there is rain, snow or ‘leaves on the line,’ wheelslip will be experienced when accelerating and wheelslide will be experienced when braking. The auto-sanders would automatically deploy sand and you would see the sander button in the cab lighting up when this happens.

    Generally speaking, locomotives have an ammeter and multiple units don’t. You should increase power gradually on a locomotive as you to say to avoid going into the red area. I’m not an expert with the old locomotives but I think if you did go in the red zone, it would automatically open the VCB so power from the overhead wires (if AC electric) would be lost and would need to be reset. The high current causes the engines or traction motors to overheat and so it might do something like the above as a protection system. However to be honest, it isn’t a real issue with the relatively more modern locomotives because they can self regulate. E.g. The HST which doesn’t even have any colours on the ammeter. There are various driving techniques and opinions but here is a fairly popular one for the HST:

    • ‘Buzz Buzz’ from Guard to Driver giving the ready to start signal (I.e. ready to depart)
    • Put reverser switch into Forward
    • Bring brake controller into step 1, power controller into notch 1
    • Return ‘Buzz Buzz’ back to Guard and wait for amps to build up/ brake cylinder pressure to decrease
    • Release brakes completely on brake controller, power controller into notch 2
    • As soon as wheels starting moving, power controller into notch 3
    • At 10mph, notch 4
    • At 15 or 20mph, notch 5

    In normal dry conditions, there is no problem in going straight to full power on the turbo (class 166) and I personally have no problem doing it on (most) multiple units. To be honest, 7 notches of power is pretty excessive and you’ll figure out that most you’ll never use. Even if you want to be conservative, the first power notch I would use from a stop (e.g. leaving a station) would be notch 4. The first 3 notches will probably only be used either to maintain speed or when coupling/uncoupling or around a depot. The same can be said about the Class 377 with regards to going straight into full power although may start with notch 3 and then wait a couple of seconds before going to notch 4 simply because they accelerate a lot quicker being an Electrical Multiple Unit so it could knock passengers off their feet if they are still walking to their seats.
    In wet conditions, when wheelslip is encountered, you may need to reduce power to reduce the train juddering as the train is struggling to accelerate. There is a sticker on the Class 377 cab if you have ever noticed which informs the driver of what to do when severe wheelslip is encountered.

    You should never have to brake in full service in the entire journey unless you’ve left it too late or other exceptional circumstances. An initial step 2 brake application and then eventually back to step 1 is perfect. If you want to brake heavier, you could do most of your braking in step 2 and if you want to be conservative, you could do most of your braking in step 1 even. But step 3 is a real no no. In wet conditions, when wheelslide is encountered, you should brake earlier and lighter to compensate for the increased braking distances.

    TSW does a very good job with the handling in dry conditions and is very realistic. However, it hasn’t yet changed the train’s handling in wet conditions so wheelslip/wheelslide are not experienced.


    75mph is the maximum operating speed. That doesn’t mean it can’t go faster than that unless there is a speed limiter which knocks off the power at the maximum operating speed or if you are being speed supervised such as Automatic Train Protection (ATP). Take the HST for example: Maximum operating speed is 125mph yet the record for the HST is 148.5 mph which is also the current world record for diesel trains.

    As stujoy says, when there is a differential speed board, the bottom (higher speed) applies to passenger trains, postal trains and light locomotives. The upper (lower speed) applies to freight trains. I’ll attach a picture at the bottom.

    Yup, like in real life. You can pretty much do anything you want with multiple units. They have done a very good job with the cab sway so you can ‘feel’ the deceleration but they could make the final impact a bit more dramatic if you finish in a high brake position as you will get pushed forwards in real life. The final impact should always be step 1 on a turbo or 377.

    They could do a better job with loco/HST because if the final impact is bad, you will stop in a heap and you will get ‘bang, bang, bang...’ as each coach stops in turn. But as multiple units are semi permanent connections, it’s not so bad on the turbo or 377 apart from as I say, a little ‘forwards kick’ at the final impact. With the loco/HST, you should always finish with a rising brake pipe (I.e. brakes releasing) for a nice final impact.

    If you want to know more about wheelslip, wheelslide general train behaviour in low adhesion conditions and how drivers should react to it, here’s a thread that I made discussing it.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-handling-during-low-adhesion-rain-snow-leaf-fall


    B15BF2DC-250F-4F85-91DA-CD1F5E857A84.jpeg
    So in this instance, you can only do 20mph with a freight train. But 50mph if a passenger, postal or light loco.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 5
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Railmaster

    Railmaster Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    14
    Thank you very much for all your detailed explanation (and sorry for late replay)!

    Wanna watching and consider all this in future, maby, I will make further or other experiences. So there are no problems, just little wonderings sometimes. Because I'm switching routes/locs many times, so its hard to get some routine but I like the variety. Thats the effect of the collectors edition... ;-)

    I'm always trying, to use gradients while braking or accelerating, because I perceive the railway as a part of the train! I have to work with it- not against! So I'm a rather carefully driver and often I'm braking still to early. This is espacially difficult by the controler (for me), by trains using lap-brakes, so I tend for fanning... :-( Just a question of practise...
     
  6. A_normal_name

    A_normal_name Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    74
    I haven't had any wheelslip on ecw but I was watching a stream and I saw it happen. Weird how you can slam it into notch 4 on a rainy autumn day and not have any slip but it happens In dry conditions In notch 3 at 20 mph
     
  7. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    133
    Could you please link the stream if possible as I’m very curious? Thanks
     
  8. A_normal_name

    A_normal_name Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    74
    Sorry but sure who the streamer was. Just went to the tsw page on my xbox and saw someone was streaming it
     

Share This Page