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Action Points Tsw 2020

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions & Proposals' started by Jez, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Not that into the whole points thing but I note that you don't seem to get points now for setting your marker lights and destination like you did before the update. Seems a bit off to me and should be given more importance.
     
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  2. lucas_5_5

    lucas_5_5 Member

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    Correct me if im wrong, but you only now get points for beeing at time at stations, stopping correctly, and also every "x" amount of seconds you get 30 points for traveling lower than speed limit.
    I would like this to be expanded, and of course to be regarded if you put the lights properly, destiation, etc...
    And i would really like to be regarded if you drive with no hud help.
     
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  3. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    You also get AP points for doing things for the first time, every time you do it for the first time. And you get points at certain milestones (100 miles travelled in the Class 166, for example).

    I actually find these random extra points to be a bit of a pain - because I think that they mess up your High Scores (but I am not sure about this).
     
  4. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if you actually got something for XXXXX amount of points, maybe a discount on a DLC or something.
     
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  5. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    That would be great! I personally think that none of the loco "add-ons" should be DLC (or DLC to DLC...!!!). But they could be "unlockables" as a reward for progress or "level" completion. Or even just some gameplay mechanic that unlocks a scenario (that wouldn't even "cost" anything), could be added?

    In the meantime, it would be really good if clarity was provided, in game, on how the AP system actually works, showing, for example, the maximum available for an objective. I submitted a ticket on this, as follows:
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    It is not clear in the new Schedule, how AP points are awarded.
    It is not immediately clear how AP points are awarded for timing-keeping and stop accuracy, and for other objective completion. The Schedule scoring is also only available to view while the simulation is running. You could infer, after a while, that 500 AP is available for being perfectly on time at each stop, plus 500 AP is available for a perfectly positioned stop, with 250 AP being awarded in each case as a minimum. But it takes a while to work it out. (Assuming that I am correct?). Maybe the wording in the running Schedule could be made clearer, plus the AP points could be expressed as a fraction - say: 495/500, etc. The completed Schedule should be made available when a module is completed, in the Debriefing section.
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    This last point - "The completed Schedule should be made available when a module is completed, in the Debriefing section." is, in my view, a proposed resolution to a bug with the UI. But, I might make it a "future feature" suggestion, as that sounds a bit nicer.
     
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  6. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    A really good idea. The combination of the achievement and being rewarded with an opportunity to buy a discounted DLC is probably a very powerful consumer driver and could generate increased revenue for DTG.
     
  7. jaesynthetikvita

    jaesynthetikvita New Member

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    As I've suggested, even just using the points to be able to purchase static display pieces for a rail museum, of sorts... Or, in the least, dioramas to show off.
    Also, it would be cool to get points for doing things like blowing the horn when you're supposed to (ie; bell/whistle when departing, or whistle when approaching grade crossings.
     
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  8. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    'Unlockables' have been ruled out as a step too far for the simulator fans. TSW aims to strike a delicate balance between being a game and being a simulator. Action Points give you feedback on how 'well' you're driving, in terms of controlling the train's speed and stops, but if you're a casual gamer, you're free to totally ignore the points and do whatever you like.
     
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    On this point specifically, how would that work with third party content? Not sure if you know how it works in Train Simulator, but the best consists don't come in the route DLC, just look at the recent release of the 156DMU by AP, let alone enhancement packs like the 465, 66 and HST packs
    If all consists had to come within the routes themselves it would rule out third party devs from putting their own consists in which would be unheard of in the world of simulation
     
  10. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I've think that line has already been crossed with the collectibles. Stopping a train and getting out of the cab to collect an object? That would not happen in real life. I know this isn't something you "must" do for the scenario or service you are doing, but just the fact that it is even there is more "game-like" than a reward for proper driving.

    In real life if you don't drive the train properly you loose your job, if you do it properly you keep your job, so there is a reward for driving the train properly in real life, I don't see a problem with the same thing happening in the simulator.
     
  11. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I suspect any reluctance to implement unlocking stuff in TSW has nothing to do with a desire to keep it real. It's an excuse to hide behind so they don't have to admit it's because it affects their options to monetise. The balance between game and simulator has already been destroyed by allowing a rookie driver that may or may not have done an optional "tutorial" jump into an HST and drive a service train at 125 mph without any knowledge of the route, signals or safety systems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  12. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Collectibles are there to encourage players to explore the world around them. A lot of work goes into creating scenery and it's easy to miss interesting details at stations if the only thing you're doing is driving from A to B :) It's totally optional though and you can freely skip this part of the game if you want to. I personally don't really care about collectibles.
     
  13. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Although optional, they do affect immersion. The blank, white posters and maps are a distraction to me.
     
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Then maybe a toggle to turn them on and off. A blank wall is less distracting that a whiteboard on a wall (which is essentially what missing maps are)
     
  15. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Most other collectibles don't affect immersion but those are the most noticeable when driving I find.
     
  16. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Genuinely curious how are they distracting, how can you see them while driving? :D If you come close to it stops being blank :)
     
  17. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    They are at stations that I stop at whilst driving so you are not always speeding past. Some are even facing you as you approach. Ashton-under-Lyne springs to mind.
     
  18. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Ah, that's fair enough then.
     
  19. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    Simple. You wouldn't have third party content for TSW at all (TSW, as an integrated package including routes and trains and scenarios and services and objectives, etc.......). You could leave that slightly insanely complex "DLC to DLC to DLC to DLC, with parallel DLC scenarios with slightly repainted DLC from one route DLC into another DLC" marketing approach to TS20xx, if that's what simulation fans really want.

    TSW would be a completely standalone product geared towards the wider cross-platform market. I think you'll find that such a TSW model would be more succesful, when it is ready to go to console. That's why some of the online "reviews" you get (where, say, the reviewer has an online business re-selling DLCs..., for example) are overly critical of TSW, and constantly snipe at "console players" as being some sort of sub-human scum. Eventually, when TSW is cleaned up, properly tested and made ready for sale, it will become a huge success.

    I wouldn't make an editor available for TSW either. I would throw all of the resource into making a solid game for PS4 and X-Box, a game that happens to have a superb simulator at its core. TS20xx could carry on as it is, for those that want to buy/use custom builds.
     
  20. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    This is a fabulous answer - and if this is the reason for "collectables", then I think that it is really a good one. A huge amount of work goes into putting together most of the routes, especially the later ones. Artwork should be looked at - that is part of the function... I tend to spend quite a lot of time walking around and looking at the builds very closely (or very very closely....) - I would do this anyway, but the collectables can help you remember whether you have visited all of the stations, for example.

    My only gripe is the UI - it is not clear what the collectables are, from the icons - so that can make it a bit grating to look at ("you have 0 items out of 25, but we are not going to tell you what the items are, because we told you this verbally in the introduction, and if you can't remember everything that was said back then, then that's your fault"....) - but that's just part of a more general and wider problem with the really bad UI design.
     
  21. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Active Member

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    Ah, yes. So... I agree with you...and.... I disagree with you. Thankfully, about two different points, so, dissonance-free... ;-)

    I don't think that "unlockables" have been ruled out by anyone. I fully accept that you might not like the idea. But that doesn't mean that they've been ruled out as a step too far for all simulator fans..... - you are a customer, just like everyone else, right? :) And if such a feature has been ruled out, then it can be ruled back in, quite easily..... ;-)

    But - to the point of agreement - AP points - this could become a very good measure of driver performance, and that could be enough, for its own sake (without unlocking content). (Ah - I agreed with you, after all... sort of.... because there could be other mechanisms for unlocking free content, other than through AP points... such as "Journey" completion...).

    But it still isn't really clear how well you have driven, really, under the current system. For example - the maximum potential score is not shown - so you just have a number. There are medals now.... but it is just a bit too easy to get gold on everything - especially freight services without a time pressure. It might be tedious to go through a thousand modules to determine their maximum scores..., but it would be worth it, for playability. Any new module being designed should certainly be issued with this number as a known known.

    I think there are some more creative ways to measure driving standards though, on top of timing and stop accuracy, such as:

    - passenger comfort (rate of deceleration, to a stop)
    - use of fuel (or energy), especially for freight services
    - total time taken, against a benchmark (for freight services)
    - non damaging coupling force (mostly for freight)

    and then there is level of difficulty..... (which could be used for bonus points...)

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    continued use of driver vigilance
    - continued use of AWS and PZB, etc.

    - and, as Jez has pointed out, properly setting up the train, etc.; this could include things like setting/resetting the DRA, for example....

    There is a hidden depth to this game, that is incredibly difficult for most people to access or understand from the outset. So, how about:

    - more points (a multiplier) when not having the next signal HUD switched on
    - more points (a multiplier) when not having the speedo HUD switched on, at all (you would have the clock, though...)

    So - players would have to learn the routes, the stations, the signal locations, the gradients, etc.... Like a real driver. There is nothing in the game (or simulation) that tracks your progress to this ultimate goal - it is a major failing in the UI. This is not what simulator fans expect to see (maybe?) - because they might well have detailed notebooks, etc.... but everyone else would want to see this sort of skill progression recognised, in the game.

    And on this last issue, this guy seems to know where his towel is (I note that he also picked the 45 over the 47...):




     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  22. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

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    I think we all know by now that the truth is far more sinister than that.

    Perhaps 'ruled out' is too strong, but MattP mentioned on a stream that they've considered the idea of unlockables (specifically, locos) and rejected it, for the reasons I mentioned. It's not impossible that other things (quick drive? free roam?) could be unlocked in some way.

    Absolutely agreed with all of these and your other points (especially about safety systems and HUD aids), and I'd love to see this happen. I'm pretty sure the dev team feels the same way, but step 1 was putting the Action Points machinery into the game in the first place. Step 2 will be making the points take many more aspects of your driving into account.
     

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