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An Introduction To Gpa/gü And Rsn Bug

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ProfCreeptonius, Aug 21, 2018.

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  1. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Willkommen!

    Let me explain to you what a Geschwindigkeitsprüfabschnitt is and how the Geschwindigkeitsüberwachung is executed with Lf-Boards and PZB.
    I assume you know all trackside signals aswell as how to use PZB.
    GPA/GU is used with Lf6's, morpeth boards.
    If the Lf6 is showing 8 or 9, sometimes even with 7, the signal will have an active 1000Hz GPA. What does this mean? This means, if you're exceeding the speed by more the 15%, you'll need to acknowledge and will get a 1000Hz restriction. Notice that this is not a classic 1000Hz magnet - it's not always active.
    If the Lf6 is showing 10 to 14, you'll encounter a 2000Hz GU. What does this mean you ask? A 500Hz-distance before the Lf7, that is speed limit board, or about 700 meters after the Lf6, you'll encounter a 2000Hz, yes you read that correctly 2000Hz, magnet. If exceeding the speed by more than 15%, you'll instantly get a 2000Hz Zwangsbremsung. This needn't be acknowledged, but it hertz you. (Sorry Matt for abusing your joke)
    VERY IMPORTANT is, that these ONLY apply to Lf boards as described. These DO NOT apply for Zs boards. Also notice, the MFD (LCD display) will report as reason for Zwangsbremsung a SPAD if you have failed a 2000Hz GU: 2000Hz-Beeinflussung! The GPA will be reported with Geschwindigkeitsüberschreitung! or WT nicht zeitgerecht betätigt! if you are speeding or if you forgot to acknowledge respectively.

    As of now, in RSN all Zs boards below 100kph need to be acknowledged. This is correct.
    However, in RSN you also have to acknowledge all Lf6's below 100kph. This is not always correct. Also, the 2000Hz is missing. I think I have made clear how this should be implemented.

    This is not a major mistake, however, I kindly ask DTG to keep the flaw in mind and to fix it, when the time comes.

    Hope I gave you an interesting insight in the intricacies of PZB :)

    Cheers,
    Prof

    PS: Complete RSN Bug report coming soon. This guide is a part of my Guides-Megaproject. More will come.

    PPS: Here are speeds and the 15% gap. The Distance X is the distance between 2000Hz and speed board.
    tabellegpaeins.png
    tabellegpazwei.png
     
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  2. Karl456

    Karl456 Member

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    Thanks for the info. I was always wondering why there were magnets attached to some speed boards, but no to all, and which purpose they've got. Now I understand what they're for. Thanks!:)
     
  3. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Happy I could help Karl456 :)

    Gruß,

    Prof
     
  4. hyperlord

    hyperlord Active Member

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    Hey Prof,

    thank you for that article! I stumbled upon a 2000 MHz and some Zwangsbremsungen (WT nicht bestätigt) in RRO and had absolutely no idea, what I missed. I learned, where this happens, and just drive incredible slow to avoid that :)
    Now I know what's going on!
     
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  5. hyperlord

    hyperlord Active Member

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    Now I know where I needed this. Every freight run on RRO starting in Wuppertal and heading to Hagen ...

    The first time I tried one of those I got three (!) emergency brakes in the first 3km of the route or sth like that.
    I tried it couple of times, thanks to this post and the help of ProfCreeptonius and now I get only one EB after that 2000 MHz - there is no Lf7 or something around and I think there is a sign I don't know yet that indicates this. I drove especially slow and asked the dispatcher - got a "follow according to the signs"-order and then ... bam, brake, "speeding". I think the sign is square with a black border? I will google a bit and use wikipedia this morning to solve this riddle :)

    Edit: Could it be an "Ne 1"? Wikipedia states:
    ---
    Trapeztafel = Trapezoid board
    Meaning: Stop here to await permission to proceed.
    Trains must stop here to wait for visual or verbal signal to proceed. Found on lightly-used lines where telephone block operation (without signals) is in force and at double-tracked lines at the left track at the entry to a station if no other signal is installed; it effectively replaces a station's entry signal.
    ---

    That means I MUST stop, ask and then proceed? When I'm not doing it I get a EB because of speeding? Would make sense. Anyway, I'll take a screenshot of that particular route section this afternoon
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  6. hyperlord

    hyperlord Active Member

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    Alright, I'm back :)

    ProfCreeptonius sorry for being so direct ... but could you please click on that video (it starts just before the Zwangsbremsung) and explain to me, what I did wrong and how to act correct in this particular situation?

     
  7. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Greetings hyperlord !

    For your convenience I respond on German, the 1-1 translation is below:

    Sie haben den Hp0 mit Zulassung überfahren. Die PZB weiß aber natürlich nicht, dass Sie die Zusage zur Weiterfahrt haben. Insofern werden Sie immer an einem Hp0 mit einer 2000Hz-Beeinflussung konfrontiert, auch wenn ein Sh1, Zs1 oder der Fahrdienstleiter Ihnen die Weiterfahrt erlaubt. Um eine Zwangsbremsung zu vermeiden, betätigen Sie die Befehl-40 taste der PZB/LZB und halten Sie diese gedrückt bis der weiße Leuchtmelder "Befehl 40" erscheint. Lassen Sie dann los. Sollten Sie den Hp0 mit einer Geschwindigkeit überfahren, die größer als 40kmh ist, bekommen Sie trotzdem eine 2000-Hz Zwangsbremsung. Daher Befehl 40. Fahren Sie mit vorsicht weiter, bis Sie den nächsten Vorsignal sehen können.

    Einige zusätzliche Hinweise:
    -AfB ist auf Rangiergleisen nicht zulässig.
    -Bei Linksfahrtauftrag gelten, falls es keine separaten Signale gibt, die für den rechten Gleis zuständigen Signale.


    You've passed a Hp0 with permission. The PZB of course doesn't know, that you have permission to continue the ride. Thus, you will always be confronted with a 2000Hz-influence on a Hp0, even if passage is permitted by a Sh1, Zs1 or the Signaller. To avoid a penalty brake application, utilize the Befehl-40 button of the PZB - press it and hold it down until the white lamp on the dashboard illuminates, saying "Befehl 40". You may then release the button. Should you pass the Hp0 at a speed greater then 40kph, you will recieve a 2000Hz penalty brake application nonetheless. That's why it's called Befehl 40, meaning Command 40. Drive cautiously until you see the next distant signal.

    A few extra tips:
    -AfB in shunting zones is not permitted.
    -When driving left, the signals from the right side remain valid, unless there are extra signals.

    There ya go! Hope I helped :D

    Cheers,
    Prof.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  8. hyperlord

    hyperlord Active Member

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    Woah vielen vielen Dank!
     
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