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Answers For Matt (editor Tools)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rudolf, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Dec 9, 2016
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    During the twitch preview demo of the editor, Matt asked for feedback and had a lot of questions for us. I did not see much discussion on this topic yet. Maybe because it was not formally announced and maybe the subject is a bit tough to watch a 2 hour video.

    1. General comment.

    One word: Awesome. It's word that is much abused, but I rarely use it.
    Being an experienced scenario developer, I was not not really surprised by what I have seen. Much of it has been done in game already.

    2. Service mode.
    I am happy Matt told us work will be done to allow more than one service mode for a specific route. I think Service mode is one of the major innovations in TSW. I can imagine separate services for different days in game, e.g. for WSR we may just now create a real Diesel day, using assets from the Trans Pennine route, or a very dull day with one train running. The best example of using service mode are the freight services in the NEC route, because they tell something like a continuous story where you can enter or leave as you like, or just find a nice place and time and watch the activities.

    I think, users asking for this lightly under estimate the planning it requires to create a really good service mode. Let's not talk about the testing effort. I hope there will be a tutorial based on the DTG experience with this subject. I believe a planning tool may be helpful here and I will consider creating such a tool.
    A last comment, there is no need to let service mode span the full 24 hours, a service mode covering one or two hours can be nice as well.

    Note, maybe we cannot add service modes, but it may be possible to replace a service mode, just in the we now can replace liveries. I am not sure about the impact this may have on total gameplay, but I definitely will try and see if I can get this working.

    3. The speed of the demo
    I think for a tutorial it goes a bit fast. I would need a bit of time to make notes and I would prefer a series of short videos, typically max 5 minutes to cover one topic.This make it easier to find a topic back. I think the major problem with movies is that they are linear in time. I would prefer some video and a written manual to explain the fine details (I will create one if DTG doesn't). I saw a lot of things that can be configured, even though the tools look extremely well. Please use a better system with a high resolution for the tutorials.

    4 Some brilliant :) ideas
    Few of things I think that can be done:
    • Use the hump yard in Cumberland (I heard this works in principle, would be interesting).
    • Driving a helper service at Sandpatch, interacting with the AI.
    • Create services combining consists, e.g. drive a double Class 166 and split it on its way.
    • Adding RSN assets to Rapid Transit to make this route more interesting. (Matt, can we do this? Because of the differences in PZB?)
    • Use a nice mix of cold start and warm starts in scenarios.
    • Create more scenarios with delays due to other trains.
    • Lot's of shunting and local delivery scenarios
    • Scenarios with multiple entry points and a choice of tasks, as demonstrated for Sandpatch and GWE.
    • Fuelling scenario for WSR
    • Tutorials for safety systems e.g. PZB. I think this can be done.
    • A day in the life ... style of scenarios/services. I definitely would like to create services that give an advice on where to go for the next service to drive. So, not only plan the consist but also the drivers.

    5 Easy installation
    One of the best things is easy installation, using .pak files. Here I have one request, please design it in a way that you never need to have content installed twice. The bad example is TS2019. In have four or five instances of the Germain container wagons, exactly the same models, but for each individual DLC they are stored under a different name, wasting storage capacity, but also making updates a nightmare and it makes it hard to use them in scenarios for other users. They may not be able to play, because the author used the wrong DLC to choose the content. I suggest to use two or maybe three levels. A level for atomic assets, pack you never want to make smaller. Then, you may combine atomic packs with enhancements, e.g. additional liveries and the next level would be a DLC that combines all stuff commercially. I think this would be a great improvement.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  2. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2016
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    Thanks for creating this thread Rudolf and my thanks to Matt for his super stream.
    I believe what Matt said was more along the lines of being able to swap in a different service mode but happy to be corrected. Hopefully there would be a pick list from which a particular service mode could be selected. Not sure if this would have to be done when the DLC is selected or if it could be done on the fly within the DLC which would be preferable imho.
    To be fair I think it was supposed to be more of a combination of showing what the editor looked like, what users could do in the editor, what users couldn't do in the editor, answer some common queries such as using assets from other DLC as well as an interactive Q&A. I think 5 minutes may be a bit short for tutorial videos, 10 - 15 minutes might be more realistic. Bear in mind that some of these tutorials will be showing users how to use the UE4 editor as well as how accomplish particular tasks in the TSW specific editor part.

    DTG would probably find it helpful if we give some suggestions of specific, tightly focused topics that we would like covered in more detail now that we have seen the Matt's overview stream as well as drawing on your suggestions in item 4 below.
    The impression I got was that the signalling is DLC specific rather associated with the locomotive asset so this should be possible. There may however be an issue with how the locomtive controls interact with the signalling but hopefully not as there seems to be a level of abstraction involved.
    I'm pretty certain that when Matt brought in that BR33 he mentioned that he could have just referenced the existing asset. He had to create a pseudo asset referencing the original asset so that he could modify some of the properties such as the fuel level but I believe that in both cases bringing in the physical asset was not necessary. Perhaps you could have another look at that bit to see if I'm correct or not?
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  3. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2016
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    Taking my own advice here are some suggested ideas for tutorials:
    Scenario Tutorials
    1. Build a simple scenario using only the assets available in one DLC. Show how to give text prompts to user. Show how to upload to workshop if that functionality is available.
    2. Modify the scenario above to include assets from one or more different DLC. Some of these assets will be used without change and some will have some of their properties amended. Demonstrate the use of portals if they exist in TSW. Show how to update the workshop if that functionality is available.
    3. Incorporate events, either timed or dependant on actions, into the scenario above including dependencies. Perhaps include a train fault in AI & player trains? Demonstrate scenario scripting. Demonstrate scenario debugging. Possibly include some info on how to assess and tune performance if that functionality exists in the editor.
    Route Building Tutorials
    1. Build a portion of a route incorporating points (switches), super-elevation etc. demonstrating how to use the Google Maps overlay, KML marker and Open Street map imports to assist in track placement.
    2. Demonstrate scenery & vehicle import, both user provided and from other DLC, for the route above and how they get placed around the route. Cover tunnel creation and how to set occlusion.
    3. Incorporate service mode. It might be helpful if there is an uncooked example blueprint showing some services to use as a template that can then be customised for use? Demonstrate how users can assess and tune performance of new route.
    Signalling Tutorials
    1. Demonstrate how to create UK, German & American signalling, probably in multiple tutorials.
    2. Demonstrate how to debug signalling logic.
    I'm sure I've missed out many subjects that should be covered but at least this gives an initial starting point. ;)
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  4. nextgenlemon

    nextgenlemon Member

    Dec 13, 2016
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    I don't see the point in creating signal systems that already exist for a tutorial. It would be cool if Dovetail somehow could give us an insight in the actual development of their DLC's including the signals, and then create the tutorials through that
  5. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2016
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    My thinking was that the variety of signalling would give a fairly good insight into what's involved in creating signalling systems and what dependencies are involved. DTG made a mess of RT's PZB but made a much better job of it for RSN. I believe that American signalling is not uniform throughout the USA so 3rd party developers will need to make variations of signalling depending on which area they modelling. Equally DTG's UK signalling in GWE was not perfect in GWE so an understanding of what's involved and what pitfalls to avoid would be helpful for developers modelling UK routes.

    All that said, it was more a case of putting topics out there that I felt TSW users and developers would have a strong interest in learning about.

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