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Are There Any Pre 1960 European Routes ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Daytona, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Daytona

    Daytona Member

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    Are there any pre 1960 European routes ?
     
  2. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    When you say European. are you including the UK? We're not out of Europe yet.
     
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  3. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  4. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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  5. RailWorkshop

    RailWorkshop Member

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    He means Europe and not European Union.
     
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  6. Wolf

    Wolf New Member

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    Agreed Europe and the EU are two different things one is the continent and the cultural region, and the other is a political union.
    And despite what some might say, britain has always been a member of the former. About the latter I won't say anything as we should keep politics out of here.........I can only say that I'm cross past the elventh degree and up to the tirteenth degree with them.

    I second all the routes shown here but I would, if I may add some great freeware routes, you will need some of the above and other routes for those.

    From here:
    https://steamsoundssupreme.com/page_fwrp01.html

    Southampton-Bournemouth
    Wycombe railway and Joint Line

    From here:
    https://www.wotawallysbits.co.uk/ts2018-routes

    Steaming over Beattock, Steaming over Shap (full disclosure I helped bughunting there.)
    Echoes of Steam (ECML) (Workshop route additional assets on that site)
    North Lincolnshire

    From Jettgriffs routes there: Settle-Carlisle (actually to Hellifield) V7, South Devon Banks and Chinley V3 (all running completely on freeware.)
    Haven't tried his Faiford Branch and Hayling line yet.

    Workshop:

    Wycombe Branch:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=181524295&searchtext=

    BR's ECML
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=623635495&searchtext=

    Along the levels to Burnham on Sea (extension of the S&DJR)
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=387812946

    Bournemouth West to Bath and Burnham on Sea (the full S&DJR)
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=438520773

    Fictional

    Pyne & Warborough:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=294891706&searchtext=

    GNOSR lines
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=220175879

    Crabenmore Branch
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=288896145


    DPSimulation

    Glorious Devon:
    https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/gd1958sr.html

    Glorious Devon Exeter-Plymouth
    https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/gd1958.html

    UKTS:
    North Yorkshire Coast (2017 release)
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=36125

    Signalling Patch:
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=36701

    Somerset & Dorset Complete Route:
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-...ountry=54&form_sim=14&form_path=ty=9,cls=2891

    Cambridgeshire Lines and the ECML V 2.00
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=35864

    Isle of Wight Network V7 (the newest files on that list)
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-search.php?form_exact_author=0931330

    Fictional

    Estwaithe Branch:
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=35883

    Shetthorpe & Withley Line
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=30958

    ALGB Update of it:
    https://www.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=31953

    You could also take the J94 "Memories of Maerdy" Addon with it's Maerdy coillery line.

    As for the Continent most 60's routes are rare due to a lack of period rolling stock.......also the 60's on the continent might look decidely different from the UK, in france the electrics were already paramount while in germany that was a mix electric, diesel and steam.
    Steam clung on in west germany till the Mid-70's and while it officially ended in 1989 in East germany, there were still some Br 52 locos on the books as working ones in 1994 when the DB AG was founded.
    In fact the last ever revenue earning service was by a Br 52, 52 8134, one of the Reko 52.8s had her fire put out on the 13th of November 1993 ending steam on the german mainlines officially.
    (In fact on certain lines like the Harzer Schmalspurbahn Network and the Molli, the narrow Gauge Railway from Bad Kühlungsborn to Bad Doberan, the revenue earning regular steam service has never ended.)

    So if you're not dead set on the 1960's requirement but mean a railway where there is steam service, or where there is the possibilty of steam service the Preßnitztalbahn is a good choice.

    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/4297-Preßnitztalbahn-Wolkenstein-Jöhstadt-2-1/

    Perfect for the IVK

    Projekt Freiberg (Sachs.) would be another, as it depicts the routes around Freiberg extending to Chemnitz/Karl-Marx-Stadt in the 1980's to early-mid 1990's when there could have been steam service.
    Also the required infrastructure is still there:
    V2.1 (with the Chemnitz extensioin)
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/2128-Projekt-Freiberg-Sachs-V2-01/

    V1 (without the Chemnitz extension, has more scenarios afaik)
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/1273-Projekt-Freiberg-Sachs-v-1-1/

    Then there is this fictional spanish steam railway that I know of:
    http://www.trensim.com/lib/rs/index.php?act=category&id=21

    railsim.fr and railsim.es might be worth a look too.

    They have this 1960's french Narrow Gauge lines:
    https://www.railsim-fr.com/forum/index.php?/files/file/953-cfd-vivarais-1960s-par-bernardd/

    https://www.railsim-fr.com/forum/index.php?/files/file/1462-chemins-de-fer-départementaux-du-tarn/

    Úzkorozchodná would also be a good idea, it's not necessarily 1960's but still operates old style:
    https://pikku.msts.cz/railsim.html


    The Rodachtalbahn Plus can afaik be used for anything about 70's ish.
    it's semi-realistic, as some of the lines did not exist anymore in the 70's and some where projected but never built
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/1845-Rodachtalbahn-Plus-1-07/#description

    Bäderbahn Usedom 1988 (at the tail end of east german steam good place for the Br 86)
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Entry/2581-Baederbahn-Usedom-1988/#description

    Pity that Tim van der Leuw isn't here, he could tell you something about dutch routes.

    I think there might be something on HCC Trainsim for that, too.
     
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  7. Daytona

    Daytona Member

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    I'm really sorry guys, I didn't have email notifications switched on.

    Yup, my mistake - I wasn't clear, I meant pre 1960 non UK European routes. I love the look and feel of the older UK routes (I will purchase them all) so I'm looking for something similar from European routes and having looked at DTGs list I couldn't quite believe there weren't any.

    Many thanks Wolf - a fascinating round up - I was completely unaware of some of those lines !
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  8. Wolf

    Wolf New Member

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    Don't worry, I wasn't on last week either, was visiting family, and rather busy with the nieces and nephews.
    Same goes for the routes, don't worry.

    For european routes the problem is that we are just starting to build up the period rolling stock, there are less than twenty german steam engines out, of a few hundred types.
    And for the French and Czech, who build some fascinating engines, it looks even more dire.
    Most of the french, Italian, Czech, spanish and Italian Railworks is covered by the community via freeware.
    Don't be fooled though they are doing sterling work, some of the french freeware stuff used to put the payware of older days to shame.
    Switzerland has some payware but it's third party only, and they are only really getting started.

    Coming back to germany, there is also the thorny issue of politics which would make people leery of 1930's routes and also influences route building up to the 60's and even 70's due to war damages, reparations etc.
    Had a discussion recently with someone about the possibility of a simple backdating of Projekt Freiberg (Sachs.) to pre-overhead wire conditions, which he thought was 60's.
    And that would mean going back to the mid to late fifties in parts, which would mean major track layout changes, as on a lot of parts the second track was removed as part of soviet reparations, a rebuilding of a bridge and tunnel (3D modelling and landscape rework.), and of course the war damages.
    Chemnitz/Karl-Marx-Stadt as it was known then wasn't hit as badly as Dresden but it was bad. And rebuilding was slower in east germany than it was in the west.

    Interestingly due to the huge damages and swathes of the cities being destroyed, the city authorities also made sweeping rebuilding plans, under ideas like "die autogerechte Stadt" /automotive city, which means that a lot of the german cities pre-war look radically different than the ones post-war.
    To a degree, that the data from the shuttle radar data mission might not be used without extensive research to check out the lay of the land and the layout of the city.

    The 30's are an absolute minefield due to politics, sadly, because there were some interesting projects carried over from the 1920's and the Weimar republic. A lot of the planning and ideas
    (Sadly the germans are often the most troublesome in that regard, back when the Br 155 PRESS repaint came out as a free reward with the Wagons transporting MRAP military offroaders, there were promptly discussions about militarism in a rather prominent german forum. A bit like some people had to reflexively prove that they aren't that kind of german, the militaristic germans of old. Same went for the Br 52 project when it was announced that it would have military loads.)

    The fifties and sixties willl force you to make a choice, do you show a "sanitized" Version or the stark truth.
    And afaik it wasn't that different for France, or especially the eastern european countries.
    Austria has the same problem as germany........the thirties are not a shining period in their country's history, even before the takeover.

    The 1920's are pretty much the only "safe" era, and the problem then is getting the rolling stock and especially the sound recordings, as some of the locos were phased out even in the 1920's and 30's, or extensively rebuild since then.
    Anything before that is tough.

    Now that is for germany, for france, Switzerland, norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Belgium the 20's and 30's could be interesting.
    For the Czech and the Polish it could be even more interesting, as those were the decades where their nations were freed from foreign rule, only to be then cast in another foreign rule.

    The 40's and the following decade do make us realize that the good old times weren't always that good, which can turn off certain customers that want more of the "good old times"-feel and just want to get away from the harsh realities of life.
    (Something which I do not begrudge them. I can fully understand it. I find the rabid politicization of everything in recent times rather tiring. Not everything needs to be political, especially the private.)
    In this genre, unlike others we generally do not get a story to make a comment on issues, we just get to present them. For example racial segregation in parts of the US, where we'd either have to make a choice to show the different waiting rooms, carriages etc. or not to show them, showing the "sanitized" version of history and essentially white-washing it.
    This could lead certain people who love to complain about everything and do not know the meaning of nuance to claim that such an addon/game would support these issues, like racial segregation.
    All of which can make developers go for "easier" less controversial eras.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  9. Daytona

    Daytona Member

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    A fascinating explanation, many thanks Wolf. I'm not too concerned with the accuracy of detail - as long as the overall look and feel of routes and rolling stock is, say, two thirds accurate, I'm happy. I'd love first and second world war environments, they'd be incredibly atmospheric. I think that's when railways of the major participants achieved close to their maximum potential. I'm also disturbed by the level of German false overcompensation regarding the wars - I've encountered it in different areas of life. I'm an engineer, so a realist. What happened, happened. I see repressive political correctness as potentially dangerous.
     
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