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Arosa Streaming First Impressions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by fabristunt, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Cyberpunk has way, way, way more problems than just 'running poorly.' It was a buggy mess at launch and according to some still is. Meanwhile, AC Valhalla runs great on a base XBox One, as does Red Dead Redemption II, probably the most graphically gorgeous game ever released.

    (Cross-platform multiplayer: most of the "whining" I hear is about PC modders who have given themselves guided weapons with the power of a tank gun and unlimited ammo. I've tried aiming with a mouse and it bites; any console player claiming it's an 'advantage' has never tried it)
     
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  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    So now you compare the number of sales over 2 years to the number of sales in a month? Makes sense.

    GTA V sold 20 million copies just in 2020 and 140 million copies since the original launch overall. Comparing the numbers this way is entirely pointless.

    Because those games were actually made properly, thankfully. But sadly it's not always the case.
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Again, then why do all console shooters need aim assistance?
     
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  4. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, I was trying to understand where you pulled your 10% figure from.

    Cheers
     
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And in theory, TSW could look just as great. It isn't consoles, even 8-year-old ones, that are holding it back! Rather, to get the sort of optimized graphics generation of those AAA releases requires the personnel and budget of a AAA studio. R* and Ubi could expect to recoup their massive investment with even more massive sales, because those are tentpole franchises in the massive shooter/RPG market. You could take eight years and thousands of people and hundreds of millions of dollars to create the most awesome train sim ever conceived... but it wouldn't sell 140 million copies. Or 11 million. Or one million. Train sims are a niche market, and there's only so much potential revenue there.
     
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  6. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    From the 2 numbers you gave to me, nothing more.

    And I personally never said they do. If I did, then I used the wrong words and excuse me. I'm pretty sure TSW could be made much better on both PC and consoles, but it's often the developers themselves saying stuff that implies console hardware limitations, like when it came to route sizes and they said console storage space is an issue and such. But these mostly seem like weak excuses to me, just like Rivet saying the reason for the poor scenery on the Arosa Line is performance, then routes like Clinchfield and Cane Creek come up and they will both look beautiful on PC and consoles as well.

    So I personally don't buy these excuses, but they're often made and are enough to make the PC crowd angry. But anway, the whole reason I joined this whole argument this time was because of the "be grateful for console players for keeping TSW alive", which I still find silly and false. And with that, I think it's enough off-topic for now? I think we can all agree that we make up the playerbase of the game together. It's sad that the technical difficulties of the game's development and questionable quality of certain content are enough to generate so much letdown and frustration that people start hating on each other.

    But at least Clinchfield and Cane Creek look really promising, hope they deliver better. As for Arosa, I still hope they will manage to improve on it over time. If not Rivet themselves, then the modders maybe.
     
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  7. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I urge you to not only double check your math, but also to consider that the claim you made was also with regards to PC demographics in overall sales after 2 years. So, I am now confused as to what your point is.

    Cheers
     
  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    My point from the beginning was that comparing sales numbers is pointless, especially in the case of GTA, as it was re-released on several different platforms at different times and it keeps selling like hotcake even 7 years after it's original release. This sales numbers argument was pointless from the beginning, and so it is in the case of TSW as well, that iss my point and nothing else.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’d rather give DTG more cash than spend money on crappy shark cards, dlc etc on a game that old (he says as he continues downloading free dlc for assetto corsa) :D
     
  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree there, lol. I've been playing GTA V ever since the PC release, but never bought a single Shark Card.Train stuff, on the other hand, I'm happy to spend on those.

    Though I have no problem with the age of GTA V. I personally like it, it's rare to be able to enjoy a game you only paid for once for more than 5 years.
     
  11. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to chime in here, but what exactly is that pages long chatter about console wars doing in the arosa line first impressions...?
     
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  12. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well the question arose if console hardware limitations were the reason for the poor scenery on the route. While I think not, but it was enough to start another usual argument about platforms.
     
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  13. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely nothing. As per usual, people are going wildly off topic and creating their own discussions within a dead thread.

    Just to clarify, Rivet’s excuse that consoles are the problem to try and justify their poor scenery is absolute nonsense, as all TSW routes would look as bad as theirs if it was true.

    So this whole console vs PC debate is not needed. It’s the responsibility of the developer for the outcome of their creations. Trying to blame a platform for your poor creation is just a get out of jail free card.
     
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  14. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    According to the Steam hardware survey for March 2021 (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam), about 51% of all PC Steam users had a graphics card that was a GTX 1060 or better. To put that in perspective, a 1060 is about on par with the base 8th gen consoles and actually beats them on the spec sheet (https://technical.city/en/video/GeForce-GTX-1060-6-GB-vs-PlayStation-4-GPU)
    For processor, approximately 71% of all PC users had a CPU that clocked at base 2.7 GHz or above. Processors on the 8th gen base consoles meanwhile clock between 1.6 and 1.75 GHz. So clearly most gaming PC users have a PC that is either on par with or better than 8th gen base consoles. Very few still use a PC that is worse than 7th gen consoles.

    Also, what’s wrong with PC users who spent a lot of money on a high end machine wanting a better experience than those who didn’t? Obviously the game content should be the same on all platforms, but if I paid for a high end machine then I expect better graphics, higher res textures, and a better frame rate. This isn’t a concept exclusive to PC. If one buys a PS4 Pro, then they expect better graphics in games. Is that unfair to base PS4 owners? No, because the PS4 pro owner spent more money. So why can’t that same concept apply to PC?
     
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  15. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Your statement on the TSW launch covers only half of the story. From the beginning the intention was there to support consoles. The original development project was seriously delayed, so I think it is wise to roll it out at once on all platforms. DTG really learned a lot. The first console release came weeks after the PC releases, it took quite some time to release at the same day. So< I am not very sure about your claim that there is a viable business case for PC only. It enables DTG to do preserved collection projects. For TS they tried this, but it stopped rather quickly after they initialized the initiative, so for TS routes you get some bug fixes and afterward noting. For TSW2 we are now getting significant route upgrades, level crossings, PIS, livery designer, bug fixes ..

    Finally, why not allow console players their fun with this game? Not all people can afford an expensive game PC and consoles are a reasonable alternative.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    We get all those things. Frame rate as you know is unlimited unless you limit it yourself in game settings or your card's control panel, or with a third-party fps-locker; and we can get better graphics and higher-res textures at greater draw distances with .ini tweaks, as much as our platforms can handle. (I agree that many of those tweaks should be included in settings, both "plus-ultra' versions of current settings, and things not included like LOD distance and bloom quality). As you have seen yourself, 60fps or better in 4k is well within the game's capability on higher-end PCs.
    Is the glass half empty or half full? What I am reading from that is that 49% of Steam users (which is half of them, for all intents and purposes) play on PCs which are no better than the OG PS4 and XBone which people on this thread want DTG to abandon as "holding the PC Master Race back."
     
  17. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an expert on how Steam compiles its survey data, but from what I can see, Steam did not determine how much gaming or how many games one owns when they compiled the data from people's computers. In simple terms, we don't know if the other 49% even plays games often or attempts to play the most recent next-gen games on their sub-par hardware. If the only qualification to be included in the survey is having Steam installed, then we can assume many non-gaming and older laptops, which are certainly not used for next-gen gaming, were included in the survey. Compare that to consoles where if someone is buying a new PS5, then they are likely planning on purchasing and playing new games. Meanwhile, many people might just have Steam installed on an office PC or laptop and play games as a side thing.

    To clarify, I'm not advocating DTG abandon consoles. What I am doing is calling out the console players going after PC players for expressing concerns by dismissing us as "unprofitable" or " a small minority of the player base".

    I'm not so sure what you mean by this. If TS classic is so unprofitable than why not just abandon it? Then DTG could move the few people still developing on TS to TSW and increase productivity for the more profitable game. Clearly TS is at least turning some profit otherwise DTG would have left it years ago. And the reason TS doesn't continue to receive core game updates is because it's a 10+ year old game. There's not much to work with there.
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's rather a distortion of what I am trying to say: I am responding to those PC Supremacists who are quite openly and brazenly calling on DTG to ditch content for the console Untermenschen, or failing that at least to abandon last-gen consoles: I think that said PC Supremacists have a very inflated sense of their market importance which needs correction. It appears that PC players operating with more computing power than a base PS4 or XBox One amount to roughly 1/6 of TSW players.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  19. roysto25

    roysto25 Member

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    This all seems reminiscent of the battle between big-enders and little-enders - and equally pointless. DTG have obviously made their decisions on platform support based on their (probably accurate) economic analysis and their philosophy on player support/loyalty. We will have no significant impact on those decisions, except maybe on route development. So, please stop this nonsense, get on with your lives - or drive trains.
     
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  20. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Is there a settings menu in game to increase or decrease game graphical quality? Detailed content can be created as players can adjust the quality according to their platform or how the hardware they have. What we need is just the willing to create detailed content and not excuses like consoles not being able to handle detailed content.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  21. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Well said. You basically summarized a 10 page thread in a few sentences
     
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  22. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    For TS developing content is a lot easier and it has a long history with a lot of very old content, still generating revenues. What I tried to say is that for TS DTG spent far less money= almost nothing, to support older products. For TSW2 they do and I am grateful for that. It looks a bit like revenues for TSW are now (after four years) si high that they can afford it. I am convinced the console players contribute to that.
    I think TS is still popular because it is far less demanding for your computer and there is a lot of content. They will continue TS as long as there is a market, even for MSTS there still is a very limited market.... Don't ask me for all motives of DTG. What I know is that it must have taken a huge amount of money to start developing TSW and I believe it is profitable now. I also believe the business model is changed a bit.
     
  23. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    True, but let's not forget that TS add-ons also released in more complete states. TS had steam trains, moving road traffic, working level crossing gates from the beginning, addons that have PIS had them from the beginning and didn't need preservation crew to add them years later, and the same goes for every other bonus feature.
     
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