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Arosa Streaming First Impressions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by fabristunt, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    You better dont, dont give them ideas to behave like Apple or you'll buy every future route only with the ability to walk around unless you have bought iDrive for 250$ (of course seperate for every route), oh and to be realistic, fuel costs extra.:o.
    And if you want to travel as a passenger, make sure you paid for a Ticket.....
     
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  2. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Active Member

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    Folks, as much as I appreciate Rivet responded to our concerns, I still have to say that I think the statement about trees and performance is a cop-out.

    Why?

    Arosa is a 25.6km, mostly single track route with little traffic and very little urban construction (except for the part in Chur).

    In TSW2 we have for a long time(!) extremely busy routes with thousands of signals and a large number(!!!!!) of rail tracks, partly surrounded by urban buildings to a large extent (e.g. Munich!). I know the routes by heart and have partly walked them. Even routes like Oakville have such dense object coverage - even a bit off the line. Even older routes like Peninsula are at least half completely surrounded by urban areas with tons of buildings, constructions, cars and roads!

    And now someone comes along with a 25.6km route through mostly sparsely populated countryside and wants to tell you the TSW2 collapses at more than three trees? Who should believe that! Even more so in the face of Clinchfield.
     
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  3. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    As many has said before me, the trees are just one part of the problem. It's not all about the trees, though. Look at the pictures in my earlier post, it's also about all the other textures. Many of them close-up, not distant. They look low-res, lifeless and flat with no definition to them. I expected so much more since what sets a Swiss route apart, at least in my head, would be the fantastic landscape views. The magnificent vistas. Instead I was greeted with something looking like an old PS1 game. They could at least have tried to make it look like SPG. There's some pretty distant landscaping there too, and even though not perfect, it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as what we were shown. It looks a little better when snow covered simply because our brains are programmed to accept snow as a flat'ish surface, but it really just covers all the bad...and the lack of trees etc. is still there.

    Also, I'm sorry, but what? Walk around the lake? Come on, it's a train simulator, not a strolling the neighborhood simulator. Had the area around the lake, the town, looked great, at least there would be, that. But it's just some distant not too good looking boxes. Pitching this whole part almost like, a feature? But again, why would I want to be strolling around there in the back of the lake, I'm here for train related things, not this. I strongly felt that showing that, and while everything was snow covered, was just that, a cover. A mental cover-up of what we had just been shown and they knew many, including me, would react not so favorably to.

    Maybe DTG should start set some quality standards of what is acceptable to charge money for when letting other developers onto the "caboose". If they can't reach these levels, or rather, until they can reach these levels, their routes / rolling stock will not be sold. "Not good enough, here, take it back and fix it.". Instead of the just threw it out there with a "They all be whiney whiney for a bit, but half of them will buy it anyway. Good enough!".

    I'm probably nearing ranting territory here, or maybe even in it, and maybe I should quit now. I'm just so disappointed. Instead of moving forward with TSW, it sometimes feels like we are moving backwards instead...
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    That's your issue. DTG, or Rivet, or AP, or anyone, could release and sell a green cube on wheels and people will most likely still buy it.
     
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  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They have done that, it is called a class 375/377!!
     
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  6. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Active Member

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    I see it exactly the same way.

    I feel your pain. ;) But it actually also shows how good DTG has become in the meantime (regarding the difference Clinchfield - Arosa). I still think the future of TSW2 looks good. I actually really like most of DTG's routes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Love this comment as I too thought to myself what does this matter. If I was that fussed I have google earth . It’s not like the water textures are great. It was just a big blue area with no life or real feature to it.

    I will watch the other streams more so to see what they comment on.

    What I personally found incredulous was jaspers stiff upper lip and carrying on in live stream which lit up with so much feedback. I’d love them to succeed and I know commercially he can’t say on a stream “actually the scenery and textures are not good” but all they did was talk about a holiday to Switzerland and how good the train looks (which I do agree with)
     
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  8. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Is that a joke ?
    I do not see DTG to implement Quality standards which they don´t follow by themself !
    Just have a look on the quality of last DLC on TS 2009 (TS2021 rolf) they sold (Frankfurt Koblenz or the last one in England)

    I ask myself if they have quality standard. I think the boss of DTG looks at 3-4 screenshots and stamps on the sheets with the mention "validated"
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  9. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, Jamie is awesome, but we probably need someone a bit more... rough... for one of the streams (preferably tomorrow BEFORE it releases). Jamie is a fan and knows a ton about RhB, but I don't see him really preview the thing, poke into it etc.
     
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  10. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Tried watching the stream again, with the sound off.

    Still looks like Hobbiton :(
    Desperately needs more rock textures.
     
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  11. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Trees in TSW2 would be ok but for the rocks you have to wait TSW3
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For those of you who aren’t on Discord, Sam said DTG are going to have stricter quality control, to prevent both this and the poor HS1 scenery, on SEHS, happening again. The reason for the poor scenery on HS1 was because this section was done by second party, with the Kent section dome by DTG. Hence the big contrast in scenery details and quality.

    Back to Arosa, I think Rivet got their priorities completely wrong. They’ve spend too much time on the smaller, finer details and haven’t left enough time on what matters the most.

    They are also far too conscious on performance, trying to achieve 60fps (guess) across the board on all devices. This just isn’t feasible, especially on older hardware. The only way you can do that is if you do what Rivet are doing; severely limiting scenery as well as using very low resolution textures.

    Hopefully the stricter quality control will mean we won’t get a repeat of this again, from first, second or third party developers.
     
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  13. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    That's very interesting.
     
  14. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting to hear...... But a little late for this route which I was looking forward to but won't bother with unless it has a pretty much total rebuild with better textures etc..... Which I doubt very much is going to happen. :|
     
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  15. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the insight, that is actually interesting and the HS1 thing explains alot.
     
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  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Oh, really? :) Very 'surprising' :) PS Your post 10/10!
    How to be there? Can't find it. BR
    EDIT discord
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  17. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    You picked up on that one, eh. :) I thought just that myself when I typed it, and wondered if someone else would react to it. Anyhow, hopefully things will get better in the future. It certainly looks like DTG has stepped up their game a couple notches recently. Hopefully it's not just a temporary thing.

    From Train Sim World on Facebook:
    "With 41 Bridges, 19 Tunnels, steep gradients, and breathtaking scenery ArosaLinie provides an exciting experience for railfans"

    Who wrote this trite? Did they ever drive the route themselves, or even see it? Not a very honest things to say, or rather, it's a complete lie.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  18. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Really interesting post londonmidland and it's great to hear that DTG are (seemingly) determined not to let this happen again. There is no way that customers should be charged the same price for routes which have such a staggering contrast in quality, in this case Arosa and Clinchfield.

    I'm not bashing Rivet but 5 months since Isle of Wight comes out and now they release this? A bit of extra time spent wouldn't go a miss and really they should pull its release and improve, not just release a statement and say 'here you go, best we could do'. If you can't do Swiss mountains justice, then don't do a Swiss route until you can! A lot of people (me included) have been looking forward to this and have been let down.

    I wonder whether DTG outsourced the HS1 section because the route was taking too much time to develop. It does sound like the development of SEHS was a bit of a disaster with delays and now hearing of this.
     
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  19. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of fanboys over there so that was possible and I tought it was a real post :D

    oh wait, With 41 Bridges => 41 € ?
     
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  20. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It is reassuring to know that the DTG is aware, the problem exists.
     
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  21. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Aware is ok, patching is better :D
     
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  22. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    That really is such an odd excuse by Rivet. Since when is achieving 60fps across all platforms a priority for TSW development? Clearly hasn’t been one for DTG that’s for sure. Have you seen Munich-Augsburg? Imagine what that route would’ve have looked like if getting 60fps all around was a priority over scenery. Also, Rivet's excuse really doesn’t do any good in convincing me to give Rivet another chance with their next route. If I know they will prioritize FPS over scenery, then I will have significantly lower expectations for all Rivet products in the future. Also, the way they talk as if the scenery was very complex and smashing FPS you’d think they were developing the Yamanote Line or something with dense urban scenery. If they can’t even manage to optimize performance on a rural mountain route than that’s not a good sign if they ever attempt a more urban route.
     
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  23. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I keep saying this as well. The blurry ground textures and the lack of shadows and proper lighting is the issue. Clinchfield and SPG look great because all the trees hide the ugliness of the game.

    I feel really sorry for Rivet, as they did a pretty good job with many aspects of the route, but the core problems of TSW ruin the experience. The core development team at DTG should really get onto fixing core issues with the game, as a 2021 game running on Unreal Engine shouldn't look like this. They are clearly not utilizing the engine properly.

    The only aspect in which I find Rivet faulty are the scenery object textures, especially bridges and roads and such. They showcased their texturing technique in one of the previes videos, how they just keep repeating the same texture for big surfaces, and the main problem I see with it is that it lacks "cooked" shading.
    [​IMG]
    I mean look at this bridge. The textures would be good, but it could really use some shading right at the top of it, under the catwalk. Without it it looks pretty bad. Maybe some light baking fixes it before release, I don't know, but I have my doubts.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think they shoud've had stricter quality control when tsw2 came out. Also, if the hs1 section was made by a second party, then why didn't dtg say that during the pre release stream and why couldn't dtg do the hs1 section themselves. Were they trying to cut back on dev time or something? It seems the development of sehs was a mess

    I did see the pre release stream for Arosa and I must say I'm surprised by the quality considering that IOW is a pretty good-looking route. I think the ability to walk on a lake is interesting but this is Train Sim World not Fishing Sim World lol. After reading the comments here I must say that this quality in 2021 is simply not acceptable. There are other games that use older game engines and look much better than this route and work decently on last gen so there should be no reason why this is low quality. Also the route is only 16 miles. The excuse they are giving is quite odd. Hopefully, a stricter QA which should have came a long time ago will prevent these issues from happening again and the route will reflect the $29.99 price tag
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  25. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the '2nd party' and HS1 were the cause of the delayed release? Interesting....
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Could be. Hmm
     
  27. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, there are some core issues with the game, and in a perfect world, they would all get fixed. In our world, though, maybe / hopefully at least a few will in the future. In the mean time, as you pointed out, there are ways to hide some of the, ugliness, caused by these core issues. This was done to routes like SPG, and by the looks of things, also to Clinchfield. Sooo, why did not Rivet go this way then, and we all would have been a lot happier with the outcome instead of getting, well, what we are getting now. After all, they are professional game developers themselves, surely they must know what was shown to us is not acceptable in 2021?

    Did they focus too much on other parts of the route, and then just ran out of time, or do they simply not know how to do it properly? If the sooner, then they need to just suck it up and take the loss of adding to the development time instead of just throwing it out there and pretend, it's not that bad. We are not stupid, we customers. If the latter, I'm sorry but then I'd have to say you are not fit for this type of game development as it stands right now, and you need to step back and learn how to do it properly before asking us to fork over our hard-earned cash. Harsh, maybe, true, definitely.

    Good to hear that DTG are going to enforce a stricter quality control on what is going to be considered release-worthy in the future. I'd go as far as to say, about time!! ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately both DTG and Rivet need to make changes in order to make drastic improvements. I’ll compile a list below:

    Rivet improvements required:
    - Higher resolution textures needed in important assets
    - Much more varied ground textures needed
    - Need to be a lot less conscious of trying to achieve maximum FPS which subsequently harms scenery detail
    - Priorities need sorting out. Less time needs spending on the small, niche things, which not many people will notice, and more time spent on the bigger, more important things such as scenery.
    - More variation in bush and tree assets required instead of copy and paste the same tree asset everywhere

    DTG improvements required:
    - Shadow draw distance drastically needs improvements as landscapes look flat and really doesn’t help to emphasise how big or far away things really are. Mountains look like little hills in TSW.
    - Adding to the above, more blue haze over the white, fake fog required. This massively helps with making objects seem far away, as well as hiding out the lower resolution assets and/or lack of scenery.
    - Adjustable depth of field. This too helps with distant objects. Making them blur slightly as they naturally do in real life, instead of it having it 100% clarity, which really doesn’t help when it comes to distant assets. Low level of detail (LOD) assets appear very clear in the distance, which is highly unrealistic looking.
    - Better lighting required. There’s only really two different types of lighting in TSW; either clear or cloudy. There’s no such thing as partially cloudy lighting, where the cloud shadows cast on ground and move in real time. It’s all a very choppy with no smooth, natural transition, as changes in the lighting is very noticeable. Almost like a slideshow.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this and hopefully, they will do these changes
     
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  30. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    okay .
    In fact it's going around in circles ...
    In 10 pages it will always be the same complaints
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    These criticisms are valid though especially londonmidland suggstion on how rivet and dtg can improve moving foward. If you do not like them you could simply ignore them. This game is not perfect and will always have flaws hence why people offer feedback so it can be improved just like other video games
     
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  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think I’ll create a new thread as this one has gone on long enough now.
     
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  33. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand disappointment in the community around the look of the distant scenery. What I can’t understand is the part of this community that thinks this route shouldn’t be sold because of “lack of quality”. I feel these people are ignoring the other parts that Rivet has successfully implemented with this route. The locomotive they made is by far one of the best locomotives I have seen on TSW to date, and features so much detail. The scenery around the track is also done very well, as well as the stations and buildings. The new signaling system they have implemented also shows that they want to improve on TSW2 as a whole, and the fact that this is the first route that has us interacting on streets with automotive traffic is surely not something to just look past. Rivet shouldn’t be creating content for TSW2? 3rd party developers are the best thing to happen to TSW. If we want fresh new ideas added to TSW then 3rd party developers are going to be the driving force for that. DTG has grown so much since the end of TSW going into to TSW2, if you asked any one on these forums two years ago. No one ever would have expected DTG to be where they are today. I think a lot of us are very happy with how DTG has handled things, but DTG also benefits from 3rd party developers that have a fresh new way of thinking about a problem, and how it could be improved and implemented throughout TSW2 as a whole. If what you have seen has turned you off from purchasing this route then that’s okay, but to act like this route has zero quality and does zero to improve some aspects of our experience then I think ignorance is apparent. While yes, the distant scenery isn’t the best we have seen. There are also parts that show hard work and go above par. If you can notice the parts that are great and you are going to be purchasing this route then I’m happy to hear that. As supporting the first 3rd party developer for TSW2 will certainly be of great benefit in the future for all of the TSW community.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I agree generally with what you say, but I have to admit that like many here I'm not crazy about all the urban textures being so pristine, smooth and, well, plasticky. I know I've joked about Switzerland's ubercleanliness, but in fact weathering makes all the difference between a virtual object looking real and looking fake. Even Swiss tarmac develops cracks!
     
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  35. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and I do agree with you, and I think that is great feedback for any routes in the future that include us driving through these type of areas.
     
  36. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I find that some are very hard with Rivet Games because they bring us new features and the locomotive is very detailed (lots of polygons). The near part of the track is very well detailed and this is very important for immersion. A live show should be done in the winter, it will change things a lot and I think there would have been a lot less people critical.
     
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  37. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    That reminds me of when I first moved to Switzerland. It snowed quite heavily and caused a crack in the tarmac. The next morning as I left for work, a team were already repairing it! A far cry from my village in the UK where the road surface got washed away and was left for over 6 months. But Solicitr is correct the roads do have cracks, the buildings do look lived in and the bridges in particular need a lot more weathering.

    I agree with the above posts, there is a lot of good stuff in this route, I want to play it and I don't understand those wanting to postpone it. If they are going to improve it, that will come anyway and given the change to play it, we can provide better feedback.

    Londonmidland makes excellent points and I really hope are picked up on. The textures really do need some work. I had pretty low expectations of the distant scenery, so I can live with that, though improvements would be welcome.

    For me it is about driving the train. I want the scenery and architecture to be recognisable but so long as the close up scenery and architecture are ok, then I'm happy. From other posts, people want perfect scenery instead. We're clearly not both going to be happy, but hopefully Rivet can find a good compromise.

    JBViper mentioned a live stream in the Snow. I hope we see this. In my opinion this is when Arosa is at it's most beautiful in real life. I think it will improve the look of the route a lot. Hopefully one of the two streams will cover this.
     
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  38. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    It just reeks of poor quality and lack of expertise and ability all around. DTG have implemented UE4, a very powerful and versitile engine in a pretty poor manner and seem to get the absolute worst out of it. It is easily one of the ugliest UE4 games available from any developer. Then you aadd Rivet who don't seem to know how to make use of even the rudimentary visual implementation of UE4 DTG has created, so their stuff somehow looks even worse. It's just not really acceptable in 2021 in my personal opinion. DTG need to do better. I don't know what the issue is because other dev studios, some much smaller than DTG have gotten far more out of UE4. Does DTG pay so poorly that they cannot attract talented UE4 devs? No idea, but the results are just disappointing. Arosa line in particular strikes me as having the visual quality of a middle of the road Freeware mod, not a professional add-on.
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it should be the first TSW2 Freeware route... :o
     
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  40. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    I strongly disagree with everything you have said in this post.
    You could take someone who created the UE4 engine and ask them to create TSW content and they would not be able. DTG have had to make so many changes to the engine for TSW that it is its own unique engine. Your suggestion of “poorly paid devs” and “lack of talent” has nothing to do with it. The engine and tools to create TSW content are not close to the same used to create other UE4 games. I understand your not happy with the route and won’t be purchasing it, but I feel your being a touch dramatic.
     
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  41. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Active Member

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    My last (promised) post on Rivet, criticism and community:

    I can only speak for myself.
    For me, the route was actually a firmly planned purchase. When I watched the stream, I noticed the following:

    - the rolling stock is great
    - the new features (signals, road traffic) are also great
    - Chur is nicely designed but the textures look very flat and somehow a bit cheap, shadows and wear are missing
    - the design of the surrounding area is ok, not a milestone, but ok, even if some textures are slightly repetitive
    - the wider environment (which is actually the highlight of the track) looks horrible, in shape, color and regarding the trees
    - things like the viaduct (you know the screenshots) look downright ridiculous even compared to the old TS

    What does that mean? If the whole product was bad, I would not think about it further and not buy it.
    But that's not the case, parts of the product are even very good! That means Rivet can actually do it. Whoever builds such good rolling stock must be quite capable and whoever is quite capable also sees and knows that the scenery is insufficient in parts. Maybe they thought that would be sufficient, I dont know.

    Now it is legitimate means of the community to draw attention to it and to say: we are interested in this product, we would like to buy it and use it - but there are certain problems. Rivet can then respond to that productive feedback.

    The important thing is that someone has to take on the role of the little girl who simply says that the emperor is naked. Loud and clear. It's not enough to just write a nice post aka "Sorry, everything's great, the graphics could sometimes be a bit better but I'll buy it anyway" - nothing will ever change then.

    But what is absolutely unnecessary is to defend Rivet. Criticism is a part of our lives. Rivet are not our friends, but businessmen who offer a product and charge money for it. To criticize is therefore not harsh or unfair, but sometimes simply necessary.

    I don't think Rivet is incompetent, absolutely not. But I think they should know (and they do) that there is still massive room for improvement in some places. Simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  42. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    You think I'm being dramatic and I think you have low standards. We aren't going to agree on this. No point to us responding to everything the other says at this point.
     
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  43. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    Compared to what other trains simulator on EU 4? To my knowledge, there are no others existing, right? So difficult to compare what is not comparable in terms of gameplay.
    Train modelling is always very well done (DTG or Rivet Games). There is all the mechanics and traffic to take into account, all this takes from the CPU/GPU resource. We spend many hours on TSW, proof that it's not that bad ;)
    For developers, it's a clever mix :)
     
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  44. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    For me the thing is that I pay for a complete package. You can come up with some building blocks that a package is made of and weight them for yourself and then the bottom line is what makes you buy or not buy the route, or at least you get a bottom line where you have a price point that you would be willing to pay for that package.
    roughly off the top of my head, I would have blocks like rolling stock, timetable, bonus features and scenery. Rolling stock is great, that would be a ++. timetable is ok but could be improved, and might actually be. so one +. Bonus features in this route are interesting, also a +. Scenery wise, most close scenery is well done, so a +; distant scenery is horrid and given that I will see it all the time it is a hefty --; adding to this there is the texturing that is sub par, a single and simple texture for the roads in Chur, the beton on parts of the bridges and the blank green spaces occasionally, that is another -.
    Adding that I end up with one single +, which for me makes the DLC unattractive enough, that I won't buy it at at least under 20€ (29,99€ RSP), or otherwise I won't feel good with my money spent. Same method had me turned off of the LGV line, which I may consider buying when under 20 bucks.
    It is a subjective choice to make and there is not much point fighting each other, chances are low that one is gonna change someone else's opinions in here.

    My choice got solidified when I used street view on google maps to look at the hills around Chur and the exit into the mountains, and compared that to the stream. The difference is day and night, and I feel this is not exeggerated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  45. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    He said it's an ugly EU4 game, not that it's a bad one. And sadly, he is correct. Though not at all times. There are many moments when TSW looks amazing, but then there are also many moments where it really does look horrible. The issue is that they're not utilizing the UE4 graphics engine properly. They probably should get a few people onto trying to understand it better and improve bits there and there.

    Though it's nice that they're fixing things like sleepers popping in as they upgrade the preserved collection, it's a good start. But there are many things, some big and some small, that could use fixing and tweaking. The reason people are angry because the game look amazing up close, and the engine has great potential, but it falls horribly short especially on distant scenery rendering.
     
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  46. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Active Member

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    I know this doesn't belong here, but I also bought the LGV line late and in the end I enjoy it a lot. I can recommend it.
     
  47. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    You still can’t compare another game made on UE4 with TSW. There are so many aspects of TSW under the hood that other games just don’t have to worry about. TSW is its own unique thing and as the OP stated, you could only really compare it to another Train simulator made in the UE4 engine.
     
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  48. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    Having been a developer in a past time, the more experience you gain and make mistakes (especially where you learn the more) the better you become. As you say, we see the new features coming, the routes become longer, and other things. TSW is still young, he celebrated his 3 years. Train Simulator had not so many in 3 years of existence. We are, I think (I include myself), very demanding and in a hurry (it's so addictive) but in the end, everything happens and DTG (and third-party developers) proves it.
     
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  49. gdjsky01

    gdjsky01 New Member

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    Thanks all for all the information. I canceled my preorder. Since the marketing text touts the scenery it would follow it would be top notch. Oh well I think Clinchfield is more my cup of tea.
     
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  50. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Active Member

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    Clinchfield looks awsome. Although I don't really have anything to do with US trains, I already liked the look, the immersion and the rolling stock. I'm looking forward to rolling through the wilderness in these old diesel monster, or enjoying the ride in the caboose. I usually only know that from movies.
     
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