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Bakerloo Line Issues For The Preservation Guys

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by synthetic.angel, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I understand that Adam is looking at tweaks to the TSW2 Bakerloo Line over the next few weeks, so I thought it would be useful to start a new thread on it. I actually think that the Bakerloo Line is one of the best things created in Train Sim World (the texture baking in the underground stations is utterly superb), so I am not that bothered if most of the following are not addressed - they are mostly WIBNIs ("Wouldn't It Be Nice Ifs".....). So, my starter list is as follows:

    URGENT:
    - Intermittent traction resistance caused by Main Reservoir charging failure (as described here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/problem-line-bakerloo.33714/page-3 )

    Essential:
    - Wiper sound volume needs to be reduced by 90%, as playing in the rain is impossible with the current sound mix.

    WIBNIs:
    - Start key landing zone for the cursor (behind the driver's chair) isn't large enough;
    - More set-up time (a full minute) is needed at the start of each service;
    - There are some dodgy station name textures at Embankment;
    - Screenshot creativity options are reduced by locked front door and blocked tunnel access;
    - It would be great if the running sounds were more prominent/clanky; and
    - Some static scenery rolling stock on the WCML (Class 08, Class 66, etc.) would be nice.

    Other people might have other issues (that are not on the Roadmap) - and now is the time (apparently) to let Adam know - it might be a very long time before Bakerloo is revisited again.

    EDITED: To add URGENT game-breaking bug investigation (if this is core, then it could be impacting other routes)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  2. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Active Member

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    I don't know if this is on the roadmap or not, but the dropped throttle glitch is absolutely essential. This made me stop playing the route, and it was one of my faves.
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Those strike me as relatively picayune, compared to the Big Two:

    1) Random loss of throttle function in the 1972 Tube Stock, both stopped and while moving. PC and both consoles; multiple players have tried but failed to find a cause for it (restoring a save, loss of brake reservoir pressure, window interlocks, deadman's handle etc etc)

    EDIT: I see Turbojugend has raised this as well. I, like he, have stopped playing BKL because it's almost impossible to complete a service without the train dying.

    2) Not remotely enough setup time at the start of services. This is especially egregious when bringing a 'cold' train on-line at the depot (where timetable considerations don't apply).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  4. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mention this because I have not personally experienced this issue (on PC or PS4), although I have seen it mentioned quite a bit. I'd be very happy to have a look at it (on both PC and PS4) and troubleshoot it, if you have any more details (does it apply to every service, is it only at certain locations, etc....?). I have run on Bakerloo very many times, but not recently, so maybe it is a newly introduced bug....?
     
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's part of the problem: it's completely random, and can't be tied to any service or location. That's why it's so hard to pin down, and apparently also why DTG's people have been responding "can't reproduce".

    For whatever reason, it does seem in my experience to be somewhat more common in the northern part of the route.

    And, yes, it may have been introduced in a patch, because I didn't have any trouble with it when I first started driving it around Christmas.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had the 1972 stock die on me while using it. I've heard of the issue but it doesn't happen for me which is quite odd and I play the BKL quite a lot doing back and forth services for a couple of hours
     
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  7. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    I like Bakerloo.
    But the trafic is to light and we need more traffic on the day strech. Some London Overground would be nice.
    Also high on my list is annoncements, a sexy London voice that tell us the next station, changes to other lines and landmarks .
     
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  8. gittes#8304

    gittes#8304 New Member

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    I just left a comment about it in Technical issues yesterday, I'm on PS4 Pro and after coming to a stop at Marylebone (in the journey mode, not the timetable) the train wouldn't budge. I restored the game from a savefile (some two stops earlier) and again, after reaching the same station, I couldn't go past it as the train had no power. The brake pressure was fine and the doors would open and close no problem. Actually, it seems like the power was lost soon after reaching the station but before full stop because I reloaded the game a few times and at one point I applied too much brake halfway through the platform and even though I released the brake immediately and switched to Shunt, the train would at that point be dead / unresponsive.
     
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  9. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I too have had the issue where the throttle refuses to respond after stopping at a station, once at Willesden Junction and once at Harlesden, both heading North.

    It's a game breaking bug that needs to be fixed ASAP. It makes me hesitant to play one of my favourite routes as I'm never sure if I'll be able to actually complete a service.

    I also agree that you need to be given more time to set up the train at the start of timetable services, Even when driving aggressively I've never been able to make up the lost time, only managing to come within 20 seconds, which irl may be considered acceptable, I'm not sure.
     
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  10. RotorHed

    RotorHed Member

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    Referring to the brake pressure being “fine”, do you happen to remember (or better have a screenshot / video of) it?

    In fact, it basically has to be a screenshot - memories are too fallible.

    If you still have the save, you can probably trigger the problem again by resuming it.
     
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Did you watch this week's stream, or the one before?

    The timetable can't be increased until memory optimization has been done. As Matt has said, they can run the real-life timetable- but it crashes the computer.

    And "station announcements" are a question Sam gets asked so often he is now visibly annoyed by it. They are not happening. Copyright issues. The tech to implement them is actually quite easy, but the legal issues are impossible.
     
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  12. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Hey.

    Well TML did it with theur Circle Line addon couple a years ago. So its not impossibile.
    DTG got the licence from TFL so why should'nt not include the annoucements is a mystery for me at least.

    According to the traffic I understand you need lot of memory to your computer but now the route is to dead.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even if DTG got the license to use TFL's trademarks, that doesn't necessarily mean they got a license to use their copyrights as well; and even if they did, they would also need to get a license from the actress who made the recordings for the LU.
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh getting licenses for announcements are not impossible. It's just whether or not dtg want to take the time to do all that extra work
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And how much money it costs them. TFL doesn't give those licenses away out of a charitable impulse.
     
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  16. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Well call Emma Clark, pay some Sterlings and voila
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's not as if dtg are short on cash mate
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, IF for some reason Sam or Matt or Paul or somebody reads this thread, I think Blackwolf is on the right track. DTG already have a trademark license from TFL/LU for Bakerloo. Apparently they also have at least a partial copyright license as well, because on BKL (unlike all other routes), they reproduce the genuine LU line maps.

    This means that there shouldn't be all that much problem from TFL licensing their end of the announcements copyright (the actual words). The issue then becomes one of the in-game audio. The choices are (1) contacting Emma Clark's agent and negotiating a royalty deal based on standard PRS/PPL rates. Or (2) hiring their own actress to make recordings. They have to be careful, though- if they use a sound-alike, Emma's management could still haul them into court asserting infringement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which you believe should be given to you in the form of Free Stuff.

    The Chatham Dockyard parking lot ain't full of Aston Martins.
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    No I don't believe it should be given free although passenger announcements if they did come I suspect they would be free but I do expect my money to go to improvements in the game. It's not as if dtg have made free dlc's for tsw. Also just because you don't have a aston martin doesn't mean your short on cash.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  21. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Train Simulator 2020 Viritual District Line is using Emma Clark annocement in the game so its fully possibille to do it.
    They paid with their own money and get Emma Clark redone the annoncenents to the sim
    There is a Alan Thonpson video about on YT.

    And here is the core.
    Is the litte things like this that make the realy big difference in a sim like that.
    I have been been playing WOS 3 a lot and the sounds, ratteling inside the train, annoncements etc that lift the total experience to a new level.
     
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  22. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Definitely more time needed to set up the train, especially when in a depot or siding. Time is needed to set up the cab, turn on all the lights, change destination boards at each end of the train etc.
     
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  23. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    It's been a while since I have been on Bakerloo, and to my surprise I was able to force this bug to appear on my first run (201D-10), upon attempting departure at Queens Park. This is quite a vicious bug, as it is sensitive to fairly small variations in the player's inputs with respect to braking setting/timing, sequence of actions, and position on the track (I suspect that it might only be triggered on a gradient). Also - the traction and braking systems on Bakerloo have certainly changed since I played this route, so I suspect that there is a core change responsible (possibly impacting SPG and other routes) - it seems reminiscent of the refuelling bug on WSR which was created when OSD was released.

    So - thanks for flagging this up. I have amended my OP in this thread to include this bug. As an aside, I checked a couple of other possible issues that I was able to rule out. I had wondered if the fault varies with type of HUD (classic/immersion), but it doesn't. It also does not matter if you are resurrecting a save state, as I reproduced the bug in a clean new run.

    I will try and work up a precise set of steps to reproduce (there are a few permutations to check), but I think it would be worthwhile and more expedient for one of the devs to take an urgent look at any recent core changes that might impact on the Main Reservoir, and possibly track interface (with respect to traction/braking). I might be able to work up a temporary workaround as well. If I am successful, then I will post these in the other more relevant thread.
     
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  24. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    bakerclip.jpg Please, for the love of god, fix the clipping issue on this route.
     
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  25. B3N

    B3N Active Member

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    ive never had that. do you get itoften, if so, put it in the tech reports forumsor submit a ticket
     
  26. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    It's part of the route itself, so it happens wherever there's an error in the track laying or route building. The image I posted is at Warwick Avenue and is probably one of the worst examples.
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Like that hasn't been done, over and over.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the clipping issues will be sorted
     
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  29. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    100% with you on this.
     
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  30. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    1) dodgy platform width- at a couple of stations I fall down the platform when boarding a train
    2) a new timetable, similar to what has been done to rapid transit and gwe
     
  31. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    You are quite right. Your analysis has been spot on. As promised, I have now posted reproduction notes in the relevant thread here:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/problem-line-bakerloo.33714/page-3
     
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  32. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Active Member

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    Man, I certainly hope that is not their official response. I just loaded up Bakerloo for the first time in over two months. Dead at Baker Street, first time out. If "can't reproduce" is their stance, I'd be more interested to know how they avoided this game-breaking glitch.
     
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  33. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I have been to a few major signal boxes in my time and found myself having to blink as a live station announcer sitting next to me suddenly starts making announcements. You would be amazed how different these guys look, compared to what you might (or might not) imagine the owner of the sexy voices might look like.....

    The microphone can take 20 to 30 years off your age.... ;-)
     
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  34. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I have never understood how after 15 years of experience building train simulator routes that this sort of thing could still happen. How hard would it to be to have a temporary model of the swept envelope of the loading gauge applied to the track, for the route builders to build (or place) the stations and line furniture around? You know - like when you attach pencils to the end of your longest model train coach on a model railway layout, so that they don't hit each other, or hit buildings/platforms, etc..... ? ;-O
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG probably forgot to fix the clipping issues on the route before which isn't a surprise. 15 years of experience with train simulators in general and they still make mistakes which is normal since we are all human. Although I personally believe they just didn't bother fix the issue prior to release
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  36. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I would really like to see some of the textures improved in the underground stations.

    The textures all look very clean and bland, which makes them look a bit cartoony, in my opinion.
     
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  37. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Fix the adhesion in the tunnels when raining so that the train doesn’t wheelslip in them.
     
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  38. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Got a good laugh. Thank you mate.
     
  39. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Last ditch attempt at some WIBNIs (I honestly don't expect these to make the cut though for the Bakerloo Line..... )...:

    - slight variation in tunnel textures, I'd quite like the odd damp patch here and there, um... so to speak....;
    - some junk in the tunnels, like TSR signs (working or not), loose juice pots (power rail supports), etc.....;
    - tunnel structures like alcoves and the like,
    - check rails on curves;
    - spare crossing metalwork (blades, etc.) and/or LWR or 60fts in the four foot (between the running rails);
    - radio chatter;
    - more clunking sounds over the short sets of points/crossings (and vibration for the DS4 and XBox gamepad controllers); and
    - 72 Stock's compressor sounds audible from the driver's cab (if not unrealistic).

    But most importantly.......

    - reduced volume (balanced volume) for the 1972 stock windscreen wipers, so that I have a chance to get my hearing back.
     
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  40. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    Made me chuckle. My father got invited to a 21st birthday party and he was 68! The girl had never met my dad, just talked on the phone to him in his line of work. Anyway she invited me instead ;) When I told her how old my dad was.
     
  41. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    SLIGHT tip yo put this in the Technical Report forum so they can see it they say they always read the post there
     

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