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Bakerloo Line Pre And Post Stream Views

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by thundergaming11, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    As a long time sound engineer and sound designer I do have a fairly good perception of sound, knowledge of sound recording, mixing etc. I’ve come across a lot of people who have a lot of technical knowledge of equipment but have a terrible ear for what things should sound like and some people who are geniuses at mixing with the most basic equipment. If I was to put myself on a spectrum between the two extremes I would be nearer the latter, which is the best end to be at.

    It’s easy to make a Steinway grand sound like an upright piano but not so easy the other way round. I’ve heard both.

    My opinion is based on both how good or bad it sounds and knowing a little of the limits of what’s possible. I’m sure with limitless development time the audio could be closer to perfect but we know they don’t have that, and to start from less than ideal recording material, this is a fairly good job. Apart from the lack of clattering as I said.

    I’ve also been on the London Underground many times so I know it’s not exactly right. But my opinion is far from being ridiculous. That’s all I can offer, my considered opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  2. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    AP manage. And I'm never disappointed.

    Guess it's all a question of standards.

    Long time sound engineer here too, though more of a developer with a very strong technical background (part time artist of sorts too).

    If I were to release a locomotive, I would strive to ensure that it sounds right, I would go the extra 10 miles to make sure that the sounds that go with my model, are the best that they can possibly be. I would work to make it reflect reality to the best of my ability. I would work objectively to overcome any obstacles that prevented me from releasing a high standard of representation. I would work to the absolute limits of the Blueprint Editor in terms of my 3d model. I would work to include as many functional features as is possible within the framework given and I would actively seek ways to circumvent said limitations in the framework. After all the hard work, sleepless nights, endless research, laborious attention to detailing and extreme tests of patience I cannot honestly say that I would then give my locomotive a crap, clearly incorrect horn sound. It's like replacing the cherry on the cake with a single glazed rabbit dropping. I just wouldn't do it. The project would mean much more to me than to just go, "Meh, it'll do".

    Anyways, that's just what I'd do.
     
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  3. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I find this really hard to believe. I have a friend who approached TFL to record sounds off their S stock for a project he is working on and after securing permission to record (which was an arduous process), on the day of recording TFL actually allowed him to mount his microphones on the outside of the train on the bogies in order to record the sounds as accurately as possible. They also allocated him a complete S8 train that wasn't in service to whizz up and down the Metropolitan line to record all the different speed variations etc.

    TFL are really meticulous when it comes to the quality of products made by third parties with their branding. I can't believe they would allow their brand to be used if they knew certain aspects of the product (in this case a piece of software) would be substandard.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I see you have higher standards than I expect from DTG. I’ve never worked or dabbled in software development at all but for everything else I’ve done I’ve tried to do it to the best possible standards. Most of the sound design stuff I’ve done has been well in advance of when it’s needed so I’ve never had time constraints holding me back. I think most things that are lacking in DTG’s stuff is due to time constraints and the end product is often rushed and unfinished. I always have that in the back of my mind when I appraise their products.

    If I was to base all my criticism on what I actually want it to be like, I’d drive myself mad because it would never reach that level. Add in the subjective nature of criticism and what’s most important to each individual and this is what you get - I like the sounds I’ve heard on the stream, although they aren’t as good as they could be. I know the horn sounds aren’t right but I sort of quite like the sound of them. I might change my mind when I hear them as I play because they are always a bit different on PS4 but the only thing that actually bothers me so far is the lack of clattering sounds.
     
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  5. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The sounds to me definitely sounds like riding a subway train.
     
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  6. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how it's like with the London underground but on the subway in NYC it's louder. Once you go over a switch it should be loud & there should be tons of clanks & lots & lots of track noises.I don't think DTG did a good job with the noises a subway is suppose to be loud
     
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  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Sam said that the volume levels could be changed before release.
     
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  8. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    see for me i found the tunnels especially in MSB where very loud so i don't see why it can be any different for the underground but this could just be me and my setup
     
  9. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't remember him saying that during the stream but that's good & should make it some what realistic
     
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  10. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I think the horn did it for me, I was watching the stream with the other half and when it made its little "beep/toot" noise, we looked at each other and she said "is it supposed to sound like that?".

    Simulation is supposed to be immersive and accurate. I seriously appreciate the time and effort taken by pro's to get things as spot on as they can and I will pay for that quality of workmanship.

    It's a sad state of affairs when you notice "some bloke off the internet" has higher standards than you expect from the team working hard to release a new product.

    Maybe I should be building locomotives.
     
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  11. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    I don't think the horn is that bad, it's an underground train not a big mainline loco, so obviously it's not going to have a big horn.
    The whistle sounds ok to me.

    The motor sounds are obviously not original recordings, but it doesn't sound a million miles away from the 72 stock. I'm glad they included the clicking sounds that's very distinctive.

    As others have said, it's missing the clattering sounds, that lets it down. These trains clatter lots.

    Also very disappointed with the ambient audio in the tunnel stations. Why couldn't they include a generic service status and mind the gap announcements? These stations are very busy so there should be voices/footstep sounds like TML did in World of Subways.
     
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  12. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    yeah actually never has crossed my mind until you pointed that out would be nice to have more notable ambient noise like chatter to help give some life to the game as well
     
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  13. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    The only problem with ambient noise can sometimes be a very obvious looping. After a while in WoS3 this was a bit annoying really, but I agree in principle
     
  14. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Having played it for myself it's plenty loud enough if you crank up the volume on your speakers to the point where it's loud enough, but in that situation it won't be competing with people talking over the top of it.

    This is, of course, a somewhat glib statement to make, but I'm a little confused by some of these responses as it just sounds like upping the volume would do the trick. If the environment and train sounds are balanced appropriately in your opinion, all you need to do is crank your volume up. If they're imbalanced, please spell out which bit is too loud and which needs ramping up.

    Genuine question - I've spent a long time on the tube and while onboard it sounded pretty good to me.
     
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  15. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Member

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    Hi,
    The clanking sounds over the points and rail joint sounds in general should be louder.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
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  16. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    I dare say sound is one of the more difficult elements that one can pick up on from a stream with two gents talking over the top of, as someone has previously stated...not a great deal of point in speculating about the balance of them until after release. That said, in relation to TSW content in general I've always found the sounds in cab far too quiet in relation to going into external camera, this also seemed obvious in the Koln - Aachen gameplay stream where the in cab sounds were a good volume but the externals were somewhat deafening (probably down to a difference in how Matt and Sam have their game volumes as opposed to anything else). Yes this is a bit of a case of 'well just change your volume then', but equally I find myself, and others on the YouTubes, driving with the window open just to get a better amount of in cab noise. I shall wait until release before passing comment on the amount of flange, though from what we could tell in the stream, the 'clatter' was none existent.
     
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  17. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    For reference:



    That is how the whistle sounds in reality. It is very distinctive with a mid/low end tone. Almost sounds like a woodwind instrument.

    Please pay attention to around 15:30 in the stream:



    Nobody, but nobody can defend that. Are the devs trollbaiting? It seriously sounds like a very cheap keyboard.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I heard the clattering sounds at the very end, basically right before they ended the stream. Matt was riding as a passenger and was using the external camera.
     
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  19. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    Yeah but you should be able to hear it when in the tunnels,
     
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  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It would be good if they fixed the Signals before release as the Network Rail Section is wrong
    You don't pass a Green and then find a Red at the next signal just because it's at a platform end
    And you don't charge in to a platform at 30mph with a Red on the Platform end
    DTG Protagonist ?
    Nobody heard of Defensive Driving?
     
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  21. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Sadly this seems to be a limitation of the dispatcher. I'm not defending it, because I hate the fact you have to close your doors against a red (if I did this at work, I'd expect a meeting with no tea and certainly no biscuits), however it seems to require a core change to fix it.
     
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  22. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Active Member

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    One thing that was missing to me, the sound of the doors rolling closed. Yes, the beep is there; yes, they thunk when they close -- but in the stream, the doors sound almost silent except for the thunk.
     
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  23. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    The elephant in the room - it looks and sounds ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT to TSW1. I thought this was meant to be a significant upgrade?! Where is it?

    Some people are excusing this because it’s supposedly good value for money. Well, wouldn’t it have been so much better if we had been getting an ‘upgraded’ SPG and one of the 2 other routes, and for that route to have been implemented properly (signalling, number of services and speed limits for starters had Bakerloo got the nod). The dev time put into the 3rd route would actually have been far better spent sorting the core game out. They’re going to have a busy week, because based on that stream they have a lot of work to do.

    Never has a genre of gaming been screaming for competition like this one is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  24. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'm about to post a little run in the LU 1973 VDL stock on the WCML 5.3 route just for comparisons sake, from Harrow & Wealdstone to Elephant & Castle. Enjoyable to drive, love the bouncy cab. Would love to remaster the cab for these guys on this particular unit.

    I'd like to see an edit of the unreal engine that can run TS content, for the more seasoned collectors that can't wait another 30 years to drive the loco's they love. I'd get involved in that. I'm currently on with a couple of reasonably large projects but I'd definitely appreciate being involved in something commercial that was for the wider community.

    I still believe TSW is needed as that gateway, via console. Dedicating a high end PC to train simming is always going to be a hardcore sell, even to a lifelong railway enthusiast.
     
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  25. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    My personal opinion,

    I really enjoyed the stream and it will be my first go-to route as soon as TSW2 downloads.

    The stations and route itself look very impressive.

    The sounds weren’t that bad, and as mentioned seemed quiet as Matt and Sam needed to heard.

    Two negatives for me;

    The signalling,

    And the horn sound is just unforgivable.
     
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  26. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    Apologies for the double post - I’ve just watched the stream (again! Probably for the third time)

    You know what I can hear?! The fans in the background! Mentioned in the video of course and Sam mentioned too.

    I listened as carefully as possible, and there is definitely some decent flange squeal in the tunnels.
     
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  27. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yup. I heard it very clearly the first time.
     
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  28. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised by the amount of negative comments. First of all, I have seen a developer video where Matt explains how DTG does the sounds. They may have very competent or a bit less competent sound engineers, but they put a lot of effort in sound, whenever possible. They make recordings at the outside and inside of trains. At WSR you can hear very clearly the sounds of the semaphore signals.Maybe I am the only who noticed it is there. Then they ned to cut the sounds into pieces and reassemble them.to tray no make something realistic. For some engines I like the sounds better than for others. I also notices it sound a lot better if you have good speakers and turn up the volume of the speakers a bit above what you normally would do.

    My last comment. I am not British I never had a ride at the Bakerloo line. This probably will be the case for 99% or more of the TSW2 players. I will probably never notice if the horn sounds obviously wrong and to be honest I do not care much about it. I may like or dislike the horn but that is all. For other sounds the same thing. There are engines for which I like the sound, the class 08, class 37, 45, the class 31 sound superb to me. I think you always will feel dissappointed by a simulation if it is a route you know well.
     
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  29. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    For comparison to what's currently available within Train Simulator:



    I paid no monies at all for this stock or route.
     
  30. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    Well that's not really true since you have to pay for an awful lot of DLC and a base game before being able to run that route.
     
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  31. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    That's true, but the route itself is a free download as opposed to a packaged self contained product.

    Still worth a quick look for anyone considering the Bakerloo line on TSW2.
     
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  32. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    There's no question that the lighting in TS2020 is in a different league to what DTG are currently getting out of TSW and UE4.

    It's concerning that they haven't sorted that yet!
     
  33. rabid

    rabid Member

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    I am starting to be somewhat concerned about the immersion-breaking platform starter signals on Bakerloo. Very often on tonight's stream red signals were not clearing until after the train doors were locked. In some cases the next signal beyond was already showing green and clearly visible ahead in the tunnel (?). In any case, surely a driver would not bother to close the doors until the signal had first cleared allowing the train to depart. Can someone clear up this mystery, and explain the logic behind it? Thx.
     
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  34. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We explained it on the stream - it's part of the reason we have 200 services throughout the day rather than more, so should be improved over time.
     
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  35. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    Sounds far better tonight, and it was nice to hear the compressor too! Couldn’t hear it the other day in the stream!
     
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  36. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Yes, my "turn up the volume" solution worked reasonably well.
     
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  37. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    I was blaming the fans in the background anyway! ;)
     
  38. trigzd

    trigzd Active Member

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    Yeah, sounds came across a lot better tonight generally speaking, as did the lighting in tunnels so thanks for sorting that! That said, at 18:19 in the video the flange sound seems to keep going...not sure if that's a video desync issue on my end watching it back or if that's actually a bug? It could be fairly soul destroying seeing empty platforms at 9:30AM in game as well but I guess we know about that.
     
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  39. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Active Member

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    I was thinking that but then thought maybe an AI service arriving on the other platform?
     

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