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Bakerloo Line Question And Answer Session - 31 July

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by DTG Protagonist, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Unless you hear otherwise, from me, nothing has changed.
     
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  2. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    If you can fit this one in, will the loading times be different on this route? eg. 15seconds/30 instead of a minute because its a tube?

    Thanks super sam
     
  3. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Hang onto that one for the last Q&A - it's more suited to a general question about loading times.
     
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  4. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    hmmm interesting, sounds like more going into this game than a makeover, look forward to it, thanks for the reply.
     
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  5. Jetset-James

    Jetset-James Member

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    Will the head lights provide a more realistic beam and illuminate tunnels/when driving at night. I’ve found the effect on TSW to be lacking and switching the lights on made a negligible effect
     
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  6. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    It appears everything is a go, as the trailer was released today.
     
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  7. RuB0N

    RuB0N New Member

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    1: Will the screens seen in the trailer be functional and will detect the passage of each train?
    2: Will there be a public address system that announces the passage of each train?
     
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  8. Task

    Task Member

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    Will the PIS also work on Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Aachen?
     
  9. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    They work on the trains so this is quite likely.
     
  10. dskxalive

    dskxalive Active Member

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    Bakerloo Line Questions:

    1) Can we set up the stock from cold and dark?
    2) In scenario planner, can you populate the WCML with HSTs?
    3) In timetable mode, can I do a “day in the life” of a tube driver like you mentioned with SPG? So start the train from cold and dark in the depot, bring it in service, then complete services with it etc.

    General route questions:

    4) Why have there not been routes longer than 30/40 miles in TSW?
    5) Are consoles limiting the size of the routes?
    6) What is the longest possible route TSW2 could currently handle?
    7) Will the release of the new consoles later this year have any change on route length?
    8) How do you decide on what routes you make?
    9) When picking what routes to make, do you pick the route or train first?
    10) How long does it take to choose a route, and how long does it take to make?
    11) How big is the “wish-list” of routes DTG have?
     
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  11. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    For those who missed it previously, we now have plenty of questions for the next session, thanks for submitting them. As with all other Q&A sessions, we won't get to every single question but I have tried to capture the spirit of what has been asked that will be important to the largest number of people.
     
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  12. lalelu

    lalelu New Member

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    are the destination boards working now or not? in the trailer at 0:22min the board is black and not working but in all the other scenes its working. and are the boards working at köln map too?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  13. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Tunnels look good in the trailer
     
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  14. dskxalive

    dskxalive Active Member

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    Just finished watching the Q&A, I personally feel it was the best one yet. Positive, honest and informative. You gave a really good insight into how picking the routes works and were very open about any issues and limitations you’re still facing, but you both now sound like you are proud of the game you have made (in contrast to the downer that was the first Q&A). Good job guys :)

    I’ve got few follow up questions if I may (I’ll keep most for the next Q&A) but one that directly links from tonight’s Q&A:

    1) Matt said the reason routes in TSW are short is because of time and there’s no point in making a 150 mile route that is baron because that is boring. Fair point. Just saying it is down to time doesn’t make sense to me though, because you release routes longer than 30 miles in TS2020 that aren’t baron and they are very popular with the community. You said it all comes down to time, so does it take longer to make TSW2 routes than it does TS2020 routes? Is that because the TSW2 editor harder or more complex to use than the one in TS2020? Are the creation of assets an issue? Are assets harder to make and take longer to make than those in TS2020? And if it’s popularity or attention span that you’re worried about with the more casual gamer, what’s stopping you taking one of the more popular 100+ mile routes in TS2020 and remaking it in TSW2? (Baring in mind you’ve already got the research/ sounds etc).

    Hope you see where I’m coming from. I don’t know if it’s one, or a mixture of the points above (or could be you have tighter time restraints for TSW2 content releases) but why the big difference between the two simulators?

    Please don’t see this question in a negative light, that’s not what I’m going for. I’m just genuinely curious with this :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  15. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    A TSW/TSW2 route is exponentially more complex than one in TS2020, not least of all because you can explore it on foot. TS2020 also has the benefit of being over 10 years old, so the level of problem-solving people have in making new routes for the sim is minute compared to what we're doing with TSW.
     
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  16. AlexTheMole

    AlexTheMole Active Member

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    I watched the Q&A stream last night and was generally happy with the direction TSW2 is going and how the Bakerloo Line is shaping up. Then came the million pound question for me, will there be on train & platform announcements. One of the most iconic parts of the London Underground and a huge part of setting the atmosphere. And the answer, no.

    Apparently there is no system in the game to allow them to do it, you know....a game that they are building new from the ground up. Despite the fact TML Studios managed a fully working and player programmable announcement system in World of Subways Vol.3 9 YEARS AGO! Despite the fact the 3rd party Virtual District Line team have managed to get a functional and very immersive announcement system to work on their District Line despite Train Simulator also not having "a system". Honestly it just felt like DTG couldn't be bothered to try.

    I'm still going to buy TSW2, but the atmosphere of the Underground is going to be missing and that is such a shame when so much effort has been put into the route in all other aspects.
     
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  17. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    If we keep on at DTG to do sound announcements on platforms/trains, you never know, we may see it implemented, it's worked with PIS displays!
     
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  18. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Member

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    I hope to see them implement this in the future, but given that in TSW2020, new systems were NOT retroactively added to preexisting routes and stock/locos, I expect they won't come to Koln-Aachen and Bakerloo unless they extend the current routes (or, in the case of the Underground, adding new lines) through new DLC.
     
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  19. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Once thing nobody has mentioned is that in the stream last night they said they were also using the 2 week delay to bring variable adhesion to the preserved collection. I’m pretty sure this hasn’t been mentioned before on these forums but should make the preserved collection even better.

    One question I had with regard so to route selection and licensing was that they said pretty much every route requires a license of some sort to produce and that influences what they do and don’t make. But what about Northern Transpennine and Tees Valley? Was the reason they weren’t set in present times because DTG couldn’t get a license from the current operator? As I can’t understand why they would have set them in the 80s otherwise, and if so will licensing affect the period future routes are set in the future? Perhaps a question for the final Q&A.
     
  20. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    I'm pretty sure DTG would need a license for the BR brand, which they on have.
     
  21. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    On the disc version for console, I believe it was under the Department of Transport
     
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  22. lalelu

    lalelu New Member

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    did they answer my question in the q&a or talked about the pis?
     
  23. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Member

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    Yes. The information displayed on the PIS boards is pulled from the timetable, but they do not update in real-time if your driving causes delays on the line.
     
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  24. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    I'd imagine the reason for doing NTP/TVL was probably a desire to do a historical route at the time, plus TVL would be quite a boring route in the modern era given a fair chunk of it is now disused, as well as somewhat reduced variety or rolling stock. Choice of a route does not simply come down to having the license after all, there are a lot of other factors which come into play.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    BR is a publicly owned brand in the UK so there are less licensing requirements rather than more. They may have needed to speak to someone to use the double arrow symbol for instance, but the remainder is public domain
    Fast forward to now where you have brands on trains, brands on stations, brands on station shops... Even the phone boxes.
    All of those would need licensing so yeah, I would say that has a great impact on what they produce. For instance there are american companies that won't license for outside of US, so no point making them because you'd have to change them for non-US markets
     
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  26. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    BNSF...
     
  27. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    The one thing I was a little disappointed by from the stream is that the underground signalling isn't fully modelled (I think to do with showing a stop signal until the player has slowed down to the correct speed?).

    I'm by no means an expert on the underground (I know it's in London, and that large chunks but not a majority is below the surface, but that's about it), however this kind of operational detail is what make routes unique and interesting so it's a shame to omit.

    Hopefully this can be fixed properly in a patch...
     
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think it has more to do with them not having to rewrite the UK signalling system from scratch as there is no approach control signalling in TSW that I'm aware of. I would imagine they've basically taken the UK signalling and changed how the signals look for the underground rather than any massive change
     
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  29. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    They did it for RSN when they included both HP and KS signal types.
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    indeed, but from what they've spoken of re bakerloo I don't think they've done that here.
     
  31. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    This one is entirely my fault - I had misunderstood what I'd been told.

    Preserved Collection isn't getting full, unadulterated variable adhesion, it's being upgrade to work with variable adhesion. In practise, one of the problems of bringing TSW2020 trains forward is that their adhesion compensation systems work in a rudimentary way and that would lead to trains frequently being incapable of gripping in TSW2. Exactly what the playable difference is I couldn't tell you, but we'll try to organise a demonstration on one of the gameplay streams we do before launch.

    Sorry for the miscommunication, I'd got the wrong end of the stick.
     
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  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    DTG Protagonist I have a question about what Matt was saying about NEC. Isn't it the same amount of work to convert GWE and Rapid Transit to work in Preserved Collection as NEC would? Those routes are older than NEC.
     
  33. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    It looks to me NEC is way more complex because of the more complex light signals, the in-cab signal system and the track layout. Could be totally wrong.
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Weren't the issues with NEC that it was built in a very inefficient way and that this is the reason why it wouldn't be taken across? If GWE and RT weren't built in the same way then it wouldn't be as much work to transpose
     
  35. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    GWE and Rapid Transit had the same issues that needed to be resolved, but they weren't as numerous.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I hope the desire to build more historic routes was the reason. I hope we aren't now going to get a procession of modern period routes in TSW2.
     
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  37. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    And I hope we do as from a UK standpoint there is a lot of heritage diesel traction in the preserved collection right now and it’s time to even it out a bit so we can get a bit more of a base of modern stuff. The 377 is currently the only UK electric train in the game at this point and we still have nothing with a pantograph. So hopefully this area is padded out a bit.

    I think you might be in luck though as Matt said in the stream on Friday that he prefers historic routes over modern so I’m sure we’ll see more of those in the future.
     
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  38. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your clarification. It just proves again how hard communions is.
     
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you use TS1 but if you do you will know that the amount of modern period routes far outweighs older period routes. In fact BR blue routes are very much in the minority and two of them are quite niche routes and the others variations on the ECML.

    I like everything from 1940's steam to modern EMU's but overall my simulator collection contains many more modern period routes, BR blue has been very poorly represented.
     
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  40. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    To be hones, historic railroads are far more interesting to play with. They have a larger variety in activities, the older engines are more divers (just watch all these red DB engines, totally uninteresting very similar driving experience). and overhead wires block the view. In good old MSTS you could just turn their visibility off, which is OK.
     
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  41. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Fair point but the content of TS1 shouldn't affect the content of TSW. We dont want TS1 being the 'modern simulator' and TSW becoming a 'historic simulator'. Its fine if you play on PC as you have a choice but on console its TSW or nothing.

    That's just your opinion. I and many others find modern routes much more interesting to play as they recreate something that we see in front of us today. I wasn't around in the 80's so have no recollection of it. Its true the red DB engines are samey but that is not the case in the UK where each operator has their own livery and units. Its not just old engines that are diverse.
     
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  42. Rhazv

    Rhazv New Member

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    I hope so too, however I think the chances of that happening are pretty slim. For one, I'd imagine that changing the signalling system a bit later on might break the scenarios, the service mode timetable and possibly a lot more.

    I don't know if that is how it happened of course, but I think that would be a rather peculiar way of doing things since the section south of Queen's Park doesn't use standard UK signalling at all IRL. London Underground uses its own proprietary two-aspect system. I would also like to point out that the approach control signalling in use on national rail (which is also not properly modeled in TSW) is not the same as the speed controlled signalling in use on London Underground.
     
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  43. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I never said it's not an opinion and I really do not know the opinion of the mass. I have enough marketing experience to know that a personal opinion rarely ever matches what everyone's opinion is. I just would love it if people are willing to consider the value of other points of view. Sometimes I people claim they are only interested in .... and I think once you have the opportunity, try something or something you do have never done before and find out if gives you a richer lives. Sometimes, you will never repeat it but in my experience this often leads to new insights, new knowledge and new opportunities.This holds not only for train simulation.
     
  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't around before the 70's and can't remember anything about railways before the mid 80's yet one of my favourite periods is 50's steam. Most of all I want to recreate the period I can remember from my youth, the 80's and early 90's. But as I said, I like everything from steam to todays railways and I think the simulator should reflect that. I certainly don't think anyone should assume console players are just interested in modern day. A lot of the steam engine developers for TS1 appear to be much younger than myself!

    Personally, ideally they would cycle through three periods, steam, BR diesel and post privatisation (for British routes) but I know it doesn't work like that.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Indeed it isn't.
    The other thing I've heard and that isn't modelled to my knowledge is that speed limits apply from the front of the train on LUL and the rear on NR, so we shall see if that has been modelled on the correct sections of route
     
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  46. zappatime

    zappatime New Member

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    With respect to new routes and the issues with licencing agreements, it doesnt seem to have held DTG back in developing and releasing TS2020 routes, from any era, including current/modern.
     
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It has caused them some problems though. They had to withdraw routes due to the ending of agreements with Virgin and ATW.
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Except it has, which is why at least one US operator has "un-logoed" versions outside the US and several entire routes have been withdrawn from sale in the last few months
    Licensing has been a very real thing in TSx, which has annoyed very many people
     
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