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Baseless Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by raildan, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, well in that case I guess TSW is programmed to measure/indicate fuel after all. It’s just maybe not noticeable to the player, unless, the player decides to check the gauge before and after the run, but TSW doesn’t award points at the moment for efficient fuel use or to have the gauge display a certain amount of fuel after the run.
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    But, how do you know what the "majority" has asked for? Or should those of us who are not in this notional "majority" stand in solitary with our brothers and sisters and if we see something we like the look of, not purchase it, because it is not what the "majority" want.

    Point me to some statistical evidence which shows what the "majority" want. I bet if you asked 50 members here what they want content wise you will get nearly 50 different responses. What you mean, I suspect is, with respect, is that they are not producing the content you want to so you are not happy with them.

    Presumably if they were not producing what was wanted then the "majority" wouldn't be purchasing these DLC and DTG would be struggling, unless:

    a) the "majority" are going against their instincts and purchasing DLC from the evil money grabbing empire that is DTG despite not having asked for it, it as part of the "majority". So therefore they are going against the moral code of the "majority"
    b) there is enough of a minority (who just blindly throw their money away on awful unusable content for an unusable sim) to be purchasing enough DLC for DTG to be ignoring this "majority" of opinion
     
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  3. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Basically..... this is fairly accurate. Although I would not use the words "awful" or "unusable" (generally - although there have been exceptions in the past...... now fixed.... 12 months later....).

    There are a number of people (presumably a minority...) that will pay top dollar to use a TSW DLC release immediately, whatever state it is in. They are prepared to pay a +200% added premium for it, to be the pathfinders that test the DLCs (someone has to test them, after all....). As an added bonus, when a route is sold at a later date at a more "normal" price..., say £8.... it can be marked as a bargain at 66% off.....! A marketing dream....!

    By the way - I am not complaining here..... this sort of surge/demand pricing and completely false discounting is normal these days. TVs are sold for a year in very small quantities at double the real selling price, and then sold in larger quantities with 50% discount in four or five "sales" during the year. Same with sofas/couches. Same with four-packs of tins of tuna (my personal bug-bear, as I like to eat a lot of tuna). Same with broadband deals.

    The customer has to inform himself/herself (in all of the above cases) or cash will get burned. I hated the pricing when I first started with TSW, but now I understand it, so I am not that bothered. I have never paid £25 for a route - I did get drawn into buying TVL for £22, and I did not regret it for one second. The average price that I have paid per route on TSW has been about £10 each - not cheap, but not massively unreasonable either. New players on PS4 are getting eight routes for £4 each.... and on PC it is about £5 each (CSX HH instead of RT and NEC). There is no need to spend £25 on a route, if you don't want to.

    The one thing that I would say, however, is that if a product is being sold at +200% of its real marketable value... then it should never be broken. It is a bit of a slap in the face to charge triple for defective goods.
     
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  4. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Then the next route will be the deluxe edition route for sure
     
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  5. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I heard a rumour that you might be right.... and it might involve some Class 90s between Euston and Milton Keynes, with re-skinned Class 31 and Class 08 knocking about....and a certain EMU that everyone is hankering for.... TS2021 will have an InterCity Swallow Class 90 on the front cover/page....! Yay.....! And there might be a DLC triple pack of Classes 81/82/83 later in the year (in BR Blue, Electric Blue and vanilla InterCity....) .....if the sounds have been properly grabbed from Barrow Hill....
     
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  6. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have been saying this for ages, I have never paid £25 for a route as I either pre-order if I know its a route I will enjoy (mostly the British routes I am familiar with) or in a sale if it is a route for which I want to wait to see what it is like and how well it is made.

    I have often been accused of being a "fanboy" mainly by people who just don't like the fact that not everyone is on here and other forums barracking DTG all day. However, I don't purchase everything as soon as it is released, in fact I haven't purchased a route since ECW apart from one of the German routes in a sale, I haven't purchased any loco add-ons since the class 31, the class 20 will be my next one. My point being is that I doubt many people just purchase everything as soon as it is released and if they do it is because they just like driving trains, I suspect.

    However you see loads of posts on here, other forums, Twitter, Youtube, Facebook saying, "people are this....", "the majority think.....", "DTG aren't doing what the people want......" etc and I don't know who these people are? Is there some kind of hidden underground trainsim movement I am not aware of?

    How can anyone say what the majority of people think or want, I saw recently someone saying the majority want modern routes not old routes, well where is the statistical analysis to show that, it is certainly not my thinking? I could say the majority want to go on a world cruise with Piers Morgan but I couldn't back it up?!

    Obviously we all want the sim to be as bug free as possible and I am sure most of us want 100 mile long very well detailed routes but those speaking for the "people" I think need to have some reality and rationale, plus a bit of reality check.

    If DTG are ignoring the "majority" then they seem to be doing okay out of it!

    I think I am turning into a rambler!
     
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  7. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - anyone claiming that they have the majority behind them is usually giving you a clue that their argument doesn't amount to much. And even if they actually believe it... they have usually not considered that the source of the apparent majority agreeing with them is within an echo-chamber.... one of many....

    I do think that there is an argument that when TSW went cross-platform that it was a mistake to retain the pricing structure/strategy for TS1... because it would alienate quite a lot of people.... but you have to start somewhere, so I guess they dipped their toe into the market doing what they know, using the demand-pricing that has the sweet spot that they are comfortable with.... a +200% premium at release.... dropping to -75% to -80% "discount" over time.... ;-O
     
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  8. 4-COR

    4-COR Active Member

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    I would hardly call a new menu and HUD a major update
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    TSW: 2021 could go two ways;

    - Introduce new core features to the game
    - Release a massive bug fixing update alongside it
    or
    -
    Redesign menus and UI
    - Mastery updates

    I know which one I’d certainly prefer.
     
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  10. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately we all know which one we'll probably end up having
     
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  11. npalmer405

    npalmer405 Member

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    My choice would definitely be the two on the top.
     
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  12. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Agreed I would with the top two as well
     
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  13. testtogo200

    testtogo200 Member

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    Ok, I got all of your points.

    DUMP MASTERY!:mad:
     
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  14. testtogo200

    testtogo200 Member

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    You know what you prefer; you also know what you are going to get.
     
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  15. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Can't wait for the new splash screen and a slightly different colored main menu!
     
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  16. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Since there's nothing better to discuss, due to the silence and lack of transparency on DTG regarding critical game updates (ie. editor and adhesion/engine upgrade), what color do you think this year's theme will be? My money is on red, since we've already done Blue (launch day), and green (current).
     
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  17. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, I don't want the green be gone, it's my favourite colour!
     
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  18. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    We all know which ones we’d prefer, I’ve heard practically everyone wants new core features/massive bug fixes (as what happened with 2019’s winter update during the launch of ECW), me included. Unfortunately, we don’t know exactly what DTG plans to, I hope they listened to the community a lot more so they can find out whether the community really wants mastery or not, or whether we want (the top options:) ) other stuff such as a massive bug fix and new core features.
     
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  19. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    How about a nice soothing Chamomile Yellow...... ?

    More seriously - I quite like the gun-metal grey used in the TSW logo. But I'd go with whatever the Marketing Department recommend, based on the latest trends discussed in the most recent marketing trade journals. It's nice when everything in the world looks the same. It's always very re-assuring to not have variety. And re-assuring is good.
     
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  20. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    I don't know what routes people want or what engines. What I do know is that people are a bit fed up with the high prices of dlc compared to the gameplay. a locomotive costs almost 20 euros and some of them you can only use on a map and maybe only for a few jobs. What I mean by this? that only with that I don't pay 20 euros. the only updates there are from the new dlc that release new, the rest is forgotten ... not to say if someday there will be FREE content, I mean gameplay updates, liveries to choose for example, and of course the editor. but I already realized that DGT games is an expensive world. I love TSW 2020 but I ended up getting tired of them without updating anything or fixing ancestral bugs .. sometimes I think on Euro Truck Simulator 2 game based on trains would be incredible: editor, free community maps, many mod trucks, the weather etc ... .and in the end I thought, hopefully TSW2020 belonged to SCSsoftware...if someone plays ETS2 will know what I'm talking about .. being able to play almost the whole world with mods ..and I say all this loving this game and the trains..a pity...
     
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  21. JasonARJ3125

    JasonARJ3125 Well-Known Member

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    If matt gets his way, we will end up with a pink menu to match those headphones of his...
     
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    TSW - Would you be okay with paying 10 Euros for a route, and 5 Euros for a loco DLC, for TSW? If so - you can wait for the prices to normalise (usually about six months after initial release), or wait until they bundle three or four routes for 30 Euros.

    TS1 - With TS1 you can get lots of free Workshop content (scenarios, route merges and a few free routes). You can use the editor to make your own scenarios or liveries. Some third parties give away some liveries for free. Maybe you would like Train Simulator (TS1) instead of TSW....?
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Who, which people? Please tell? All the people in the world, the population of Burkina Faso, 3 people you know on Facebook, the GB Olympic Curling Team, the Krankies, Extinction Rebellion?

    We might finally find out who these people are!
     
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  24. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    I've been playing TS for a long time, and it's a bit the same as TSW in that regard. Wait wait and wait ... in the end we get tired. I am not the one who makes money selling train games, in fact they make money because we buy them, but in my opinion they do not take care of the game community or the buyers rather. in the end if you love trains very much I end up buying dlc without caring about money, simply because I love them, but beware when I see the philosophy they have (as I wrote in the previous post) I only see 20 euros in exchange for no updates, etc. there are than waiting for the dlcs to be lowered ... for me they do not take care of the people who play this game, I think there are more sights to sell as little content as possible
     
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  25. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    you are still right and train sim world is the game best rated for quality and content price ever ... XD, check steam forums, also in this forum etc, no conspiracies ... just players opinions
     
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  26. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I do understand this view - and it's much worse when the new DLC is released in a broken state. I have learned to live with the pricing (and learned how to buy and how not to buy... and when to buy)..... but I can be quite militant when it comes to bugs.... Ultimately they do what they do because they can.

    If you expected to sell 1000 apples for one Euro each and make 1000 Euros, then you could do that, and be happy with it. But if you found out that the x100 most loyally enthusiastic of your customers were prepared to pay 3 Euros per apple if they get theirs first, then you would sell the apples for 3 Euros until you sold a hundred, and then you'd drop the price back to the normal price of one Euro, and make 1200 Euros in total.

    It's not a sales process that you can easily unlearn. It hits the most loyal fans the hardest.

    I have noticed that there is a trial at the moment with selling a route DLC for TS1 at 27 GBP instead of 25 GBP.... if people buy the route at 27 GBP, in enough numbers, then that will become the new starting price in future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was perfect, I have largely moved back to TS1 at the moment as I have so much content for it.

    However, I would say I haven't seen that many moaning about the price to be honest. A few on Facebook but most of them want everything free anyway.
     
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  28. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    "Well done Major - you have got all of the M99 Moderator units out to the road-blocks in perfect order. I knew that you were the man for the job....! Now use these last four to secure the station. When the train sim community hear that we have decided to launch a feature called ReMastery, they are going to go completely beserk.....! It's going to get messy out there - but hold them back at all costs...!"

    TS Moderator Deployment.jpg
     
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  29. testtogo200

    testtogo200 Member

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    Same, bro!
     
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  30. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    Exactly, that's one of the things I say. if you buy at that price then it will be normalized ... yes there are third parties that increase the price of locomotives a little but the quality is truly different (I do not mean that I agree with a locomotive of 30 euros xd) but compare the class 37 of AP with those of DGT ... I do not know for my part I ended up tired of waiting for things and the only update are for new dlc mainly. when a few months go by those new dlc will not be updated again ... as always .. i am not lying when i say that it is a game full of bugs from the beginning, but that is not the problem, in reality it is never fixed ... And as I said before about the gameplay: class 20 will be released and what will it be? 20 euros to play it like class 37? a few miles of work and that's it ... someone would like to use class 37, 52, 33, (for example) on other routes? for what we pay we should be able to use them on longer routes and other jobs not only 100 jobs of just 10-20 miles as it happens with class 37 for example...For that money let us use them on other routes!!!!!!!!!!!!! 100% realistic? no but this is not the reality we also want gameplay, and if I want to drive a class 37 on the East Coastway or TransPennine that is not only the small gala route that allows you to drive, we cannot do it...graphically incredible, very limited gameplay at a very expensive price, I could summarize it that way ... the truth does not seem fair to me ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    As long as it is made so you have to choose to have non realistic loco's on non realistic routes. Personally, I don't want to immerse myself in 1980's Yorkshire and see a maroon Western or green class 33 coming the other way, so I would imagine some tweaks to how loco's are chosen for service mode would need to be made.

    I would suggest value for money should be judged as to how much you use and get enjoyment from the sim, it is all to easy to look at a price and content.

    If you purchase a route, use it for three hours and get fed up, then it isn't value for money I would suggest. If you get forty hours out of it, even if it involved shuttling back and forwards along a twenty mile stretch of track, that would suggest it has been good value for money.

    I doubt most people would think that DLC was expensive if they saw the time and effort to make them and all the associated overheads with running a business, unless someone here is an insider or industry expert then I don't think we can accurately judge as we just make assumptions as to what is involved without looking at the bigger picture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  32. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    You could say the same thing about a bottle of milk. It takes time to design the mould for the milk bottle, and source the right kind of plastic for it, and work out how to do the seal and bottle top. It takes time and effort to design the label. It takes time to build an effective production line, and bulk transport packaging. And then you have to get the milk....! It takes time and expertise to create an environment where cows can give birth safely to new cows, and for the cows to be given food and then have the milk extracted from them. You then need to set-up a rig to sterilise the milk and if it wasn't for careful research by Pasteur, we'd all get ill drinking the milk at some point.

    Sometimes I see a bottle of milk and think - "How did that get there - it must be some sort of magic that very few people know/understand?" Surely a bottle of milk should cost thousands of pounds.... because it is so complicated......!

    Making virtual trains is not complicated or magical, and certainly not when compared to milk production. It can be learned by ten year-olds, and done very effectively by fourteen year-olds. Negotiating access to an operational railway to grab sounds requires a bit more mettle and experience though.... ;-)

    But I completely agree with you about the value issue. I have spent £150 on TSW and about £350 on TS1, and got quite a few hours out of it all.... and will do for a very long time into the future. That's £500 in total. I have also spent £500 for one night at the Mandarin San Francisco (it is now a Loews hotel) - I was in that room for about six hours, mostly asleep.... - and for £500 I got a pot of green tea, a comfortable bed for the night and a nice view to wake up to. £500 gone... just like that....! It was worth it though - to me, anyway.
     
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  33. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Member

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    I'm not telling you it doesn't cost work, of course !! is there something in this life that is not? Even the money we use to buy their products we get with effort early in the morning etc !!
    they have people to design etc etc there are thousands of games that take many hours to create and all that but it is very different how they fix bugs, update new things, even graphic improvements etc etc it cannot be that it takes a few months to make a single one locomotive and then ask me for 20 euros !! at least for that money make me a pack of 2 or 3 locomotives!!
    a route costs 30 euros including locomotives. but one only locomotive costs half of (route + locomotives + scenarios etc etc) !!! are we crazy ??

    Honestly in the world of video games, those who do not take care of their community will be reduced to a few ... or perhaps the game will be obsolete until they make some important change. every time I see an update for the game I say "will there be something new today? let's see !!" and they are always always updates for the last locomotive or route that they release last ... as I said earlier it is not me who makes money with this but they make it ... hopefully I could speak better about this game for real
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  34. npalmer405

    npalmer405 Member

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    If they really cared about us we would have all the features from TS1. Including all the editors and the workshop. I got a good idea! Why don’t the dedicated people of TSW and TS1 come together create our “own version” (probably illegal) of TSW. That has editors and all that Jazz.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Again, it is easy to sit at your keyboard and say "they should give us this". If you are actually at the coal face producing something, it tends to be a lot harder. If it was that easy to develop the editor then we would have it, they have been working on it for three years so it is clearly not as easy as you would like to believe.

    TS1 is a totally different beast.
     
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  36. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I... what?!

    How about no? It's just a simulator, if you want it that badly just play TS1

    (Although, on that note...

    an open source UE4 Train Sim built from scratch isn't the worst idea... so much so I even tried making some teats of my own a year or ago... of course, I didn't have the slightest idea of what the heck I was doing and don'r know crap about UE4, but, hey... maybe I could start looking into it again and just learn things along the way! After all, I don't have *zero* experience with coding, so it can't be that hard... right (some sarcasm there, don't be surprised if you never hear about this idea from me again lol))
     
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  37. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well at the end everyone is free to pick up any development software and start making their own train simulator. I believe Diesel Railcar Simulator is also an indie product made by one dude? And while graphically it's not the best, the train physics is probably the best out of all train simulators out there.
     
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  38. testtogo200

    testtogo200 Member

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    Those long routes some of you reckon dtg is working on... What do you they will be and where do you think they will be set?
     
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  39. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Anyones guess.
     
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  40. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Brighton Main Line
    East Coast Main Line
    West Coast Main Line(Maybe with an unbranded 390)
    Great Eastern Main Line
    West Coast Way
    Revamped GWE to Oxford(Unlikely)
    Midland Main Line to Bedford from King’s Cross
     
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  41. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    ..... something tells me this might be the route that gets picked out of your lucky dip.... with exactly the traction that you suggest......
     
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  42. fakenham

    fakenham New Member

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    I think you may be right....fingers crossed.
     
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  43. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    If it was a section of the WCML, it would need to be a lengthy one if you wanted to include the Pendo, I mean Euston-Watford or Euston-Milton Keynes just won't cut it, unless an expansion in the not too distant future was guaranteed!
     
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  44. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    London Euston - Milton Keynes = 50 miles
    London Euston - Rugby = 82 miles

    Looks like Milton Keynes then..... Maybe with Avanti 390s.... and later on some Super Voyager 221s....? Possibility of 378s to Watford.....

    But......

    ........

    .... wait for it it......

    Da da.....:

    What if they rolled it back to the 1980s.....? Then you'd get 313s..... more freight opportunities.... Class 86/87 loco hauled....
     
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  45. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Heaven! Though I doubt we'll ever see 81s-85s in TSW. They didn't appear in TS1, except for a Class 82 made by IHH
     
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  46. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    I'd certainly like that. Especially pre-DVT days.
     
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  47. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    For an hour’s journey time Liverpool Lime Street to Stafford would be a good passenger route on WCML with West Midlands and Avanti services. I’m sure there’s plenty of freight on that route as well. For a shorter route it would just go to Crewe.
     
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  48. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    What if it's not one line but a network?
     
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  49. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    It's been a while since I've looked at it but apparently there are some good TSW-length network options up in Scotland?
     
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  50. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Unless they work more hours to make it to Rugby
    Since they are working at home(I think)
    They may have more time to do stuff
     
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