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Baseless Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by raildan, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the next USA route! :D
     
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  2. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Member

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  3. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Hope its a 31 or 56 with tanks or coal. 37 or 40 might feel a bit similar, already having the 45.
     
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  4. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well, if the new DLC is the next American route, then the other DLC, having been added earlier, presumably would release before then, meaning there would be 2 more loco DLC before the next route. I find that unlikely TBH, so I'm putting the next 3 DLC down as:
    1. Next US route
    2. Next loco pack (either NTP freight or LIRR M3, depending on if they follow the same release schedule as routes)
    3. Next British route
     
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  5. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget a German shunter for MSB could be in that mix as well
     
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  6. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, along with the next German route. I don't think they'd release 2 German locos in a row or 2 locomotives in a row, though, so I think that would be later this year and not one of these 3 DLC.
     
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  7. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Id like to see somthing in my neck of the woods , northest - central Florida. Theres a huge csx hub and yard in Jacksonville, on the atlantic, south the line goes through many towns and woods, as well as bridges over lakes, rivers and intracoastal waterway next the ocean etc.

    Very scenic and busy

    Csx maintains and uses the line as well as amtrak and florida east coast - a shortline company with nice liveries and very strange horns - I hear them daily as i live a block away from the main in Port Orange. Almost like a goose or donkey sound
     
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  8. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Not sure Florida East Coast would fall into the "shortline" category... it was a Class I until 1993 and it is still a very profitable regional railroad.

    But yeah, interesting idea. I kinda want to see other railroads than CSX in TSW, though... maybe an FEC route would also be interesting?

    (P.S. I live in CSX territory too but to be perfectly honest I don't think that part of the railroad would be all that interesting to drive, lol. Not much going for it.)
     
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  9. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    True not necessarily short but def region specific.

    I think ts20xx had tri rail and csx down south around palm beach (never had this but think i saw it perusing steam) - itd be similar to that just a tad more inland although spans many large bodies of water.


    Tbh im down for anything at this point not northeast region.
    Give me some mountain passes out west or Alaska railroad with its train waterway ferry system

    2004510171226_barge.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  10. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well... we should keep in mind that DTG can be disappointing. With locomotive DLC, we were all expecting a BR 294 and then they came out with a BR 182. As far as we know, we could see bad decisions in the next few loco DLC as well. Maybe instead of NTP freight, which turns out to be another cycle away, we get an EWS class 08 with like as scenario or two and nothing to do. If the next loco is a US loco, maybe we'll end up with a genset or something, only useful for switching yards in NEC and CSX:HH.

    Also, as for the next US route, I also hope it isn't in the northeast, but who knows what DTG is actually planning...
     
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  11. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    raildan maybe DTG started developing the BR182 long time before the BR294? I think the BR294 will come for sure, as it was allready in the stream with the editor to see, you also saw the BR182 there long time before its official announcement. Also some new freight wagons are there wich would fit perfectly for RSN.
    Inked9a396338-c40e-4f38-bc77-f0a4d8f691dd_LI.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  12. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    What’s lirr 10819 for TSW?
     
  13. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that would make sense. I wouldn't be surprised because obviously the route came later as well. If anything, though, this makes the idea that the next 2 dlc are unexpected MORE likely, as they were probably also developing, say, a Class 08 or something first.

    But hopefully not- route releases do not necessarily have anything to do with when loco DLC are developed for them, or else we wouldn't have the class 33 yet!

    But yeah, I agree, the 182 was probably in development since RT was released, if not earlier.

    Also- VERY nice find with that screenshot.
     
  14. Rail Master

    Rail Master Active Member

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    From what I saw on SteamDB it looks like DTG is preparing another USA-GE-Uk round in advance! A team doing multiple DLCs at the same time can detract from the focus of each route is not it?
     
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  15. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that's just the LIRR we have already. Other existing locos and routes can be seen in there too.
     
  16. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Actually- and I swear I'll stop spamming the thread after this- I just noticed something. First, thank goodness, there is no sign of a Class 08 in that list! That's good news, looks like we aren't getting that then.

    But also, note that the Class 33 AND mystery class 52 are mentioned, proving that they aren't the same loco and suggesting the 52 is still in development.
     
  17. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    Oh that’s awesome
    awesome could it be lirr out to ronkonkoma or Port Jefferson?
     
  18. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    Awesome I figured that lirr only has one Locomotive Dovetail should add more Locomotive s from the Lirr like the M3 and The Dm30ac Locomotives onto TSW for the future
     
  19. Rail Master

    Rail Master Active Member

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    More one Downvote NEC_Male_ TC ! :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  20. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah hes getting me also.

    I think he likes me :love:
     
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  21. PlatChap

    PlatChap Active Member

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    Don't make juvenile suggestions like that and please stay on the topic of the post
     
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  22. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    If the next lirr Locomotive is the M3 or the DM30AC’s Locomotive will ronkonkoma or Port Jefferson bee a add on Dlc route?
     
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  23. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    H
    when will they announce the next Locomotive Dlc for TSW if it’s the M3 Locomotive for the Lirr.
     
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  24. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    How would I know?!

    Anyway...
    You know, looking back on an old route suggestion, a thought just occurred to me... we might have a contender for the next UK route (after the US route probably being announced next month).

    Specifically, I was looking at AyrtonS8's Tyne and Wear Metro Proposal. And I found this, from Feb 6, 2018:
    now, assuming the next UK route releases around summer, wouldn't this be enough time for this route to be developed? Could Jay's pushiness have paid off before he left? I guess only time will tell, but it would be nice to see another community proposal end up in TSW.
     
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  25. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    Of course I would love to see my proposal made, but 1 staff member won't be enough to get a certain route made. I bet all the TS/TSW Staff at DTG have there own wish list for the games.

    But you never know. There was quite a few people wanting the LIRR in TSW and DTG made it.
     
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  26. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    LIRR was a proposal that got made.
     
  27. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Hence the word *another.*

    Also, worth noting that Sand Patch was a proposal for the original TS before TSW was made.
     
  28. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    More baseless speculation; The Editor isn't going to be released to the public as DTG have come to the conclusion that releasing the Editor will cause the console market to collapse. If they were to release the Editor there would be lots of 3rd party content and fixes for the PC version and not alot for the consoles, ultimately causing the console players to abandon TSW. The additonal revenue from 3rd party PC content isn't deemed sufficient to offset the loss of revenue from the collapse of console market, and it's for this reason DTG has decided to delay the Editor indefinitely.
     
    Digital Draftsman
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  29. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    Except that most people on consoles play on consoles since they don't have PCs powerful enough to play in on PC. So for someone to convert over, they may have to invest in a new PC, making the entry cost quite high. If releasing content weeks later hasn't hurt it, I doubt the editor will either. DTG also might offer the opportunity for 3rd Parties to sell content on consoles in the future too.

    The editor is going to be a saving grace to DTG in a sense because it will help sell the base game. I'm sure we will see scenario packs and such released by DTG too.
     
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  30. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Genuine question to those downvoting my post above. How much time has to pass without the Editor before you conclude that it isn't coming? If you were expecting a package in the mail, but three months passed, even if the postal service repeatedly said it was coming, at some point you'd conclude that the package was never going to arrive. So what's your threshold? How many months/years must pass and how many targets must be missed before you conclude the Editor is not coming?

    It's taken DTG nearly as long to adapt the private Editor to a public Editor as it took them to develop the whole of TSW and the private Editor from scratch. Even if it is coming at some point in the future, the timescales involve indicate it's definitely not a priority.
     
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  31. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    I didn't downvote your post, but I'll offer my thoughts.

    This isn't as simple as a package in the mail, this isn't something that is done everyday in train simulators (editors being released). This takes time, and it probably isn't a high priority for the managers at DTG. We know that DTG has reached out to get assistance in prior DLC, and has released a version to a closed group of 3rd Party devs for feedback. It's clear that things are progressing, it has just taken a lot of extra time than anticipated.

    If they release a broken editor, it's going to only make things worse. My thoughts is that they want to release an editor that is capable. This isn't something that is easily done, patience is needed in my opinion. We've waited a while, but hopefully we have access to something soon. I'm sure DTG wants to help bring life to this game.
     
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  32. mrchuck

    mrchuck Active Member

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    The editor tools will be awesome when there available.
     
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  33. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen any progression. All we have seen is a live stream which didn't show any Editor features that were not present back when TSW launched two years ago. The live stream only showed the current in-house private Editor, it wasn't an Alpha version of the public Editor. So actually, no one has even seen a Alpha or Beta version of the public Editor.

    Dimitri let slip three or four weeks ago that the closed Beta hasn't happened either. So as things stand, the closed Beta hasn't even been undertaken. There won't be a release candidate for the Editor until atleast the end of this year, with perhaps a public Beta in the summer. Second parties have been given access to the private version of the Editor, but not the public version.

    People keep saying that DTG are taking their time because they want to get the Editor right, yet they didn't show a similar level of care on the base game or many of the DLCs. They also held back the truth with regards to Flight Sim World, claiming everything was going great and it was a flight sim platform for the future, just two weeks later they scrapped the whole game.

    Now with the TSW Editor they missed their 2017 target, they missed their 2018 target and then two months into 2019 we found out that there hadn't even been closed Beta.

    So I ask again, how long would have to pass before you decide that it isn't coming? Three years? Five years? Ten years?
     
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  34. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with the point about the editor not coming ever. I mean if DTG don’t release any public editor, then the TSW PC market will crash and everyone will go back to TS1 especially since it’s in 64 bit now. It’s clear the editor is a bit behind schedule but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening at all.
     
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  35. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    I believe the editor will be released sometimes after June of this year. The initial release of the editor to an close group of 3rd party developers, wasn't released, If I am correct, until before Christmas of 2018. Obviously, things havn't gone as expected, and, they have had to make adjustments. Perhaps, an lot more than expected. But, I expect it will come after June of this year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  36. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    But would it crash? It's been two years since the release of TSW and it hasn't crashed yet. People still seem utterly convinced it's coming, despite multiple delays, missed targets and general lack of infomation.

    It seems to me that DTG would be better off shelving the Editor for the foreseeable future. Why upset the apple cart when people are buying DLCs and don't seem particularly worried or fussed about the Editor, so long as DTG keeps telling them it's coming, they'll keep believing and buying.

    Dimitri let slip that there had been no closed Beta for third party developers before Christmas. No third parties have had access to the Editor, only second parties, and even then they only had access to DTG's private version of the Editor, not an alpha or beta public version.

    It's interesting how the much smaller development team of Bus Simulator 18 managed to release a modified version of the UE4 Editor for their game, at the same time as the game itself. DTG, a much bigger development team, is really struggling with it; Two years after release and they still can't figure it out. Of course they wouldn't deliberately withold it for the purposes of making money, definitely not...
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They have said it is coming so I am satisfied it is coming, they have showcased on a stream the scenario editor, why would they do that and then pull it?! Things take time and set backs happen in business and with development, most people are tolerant enough to accept that, some don't want to be tolerant..

    You keep going about the editor as if you are using it as a big stick to hit DTG with, when it arrives that will be one less stick to hit them with........
     
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  38. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Active Member

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    Digital Draftsman write:
    "...smaller development team of Bus Simulator 18 managed to release a modified version of the UE4 Editor for their game, at the same time as the game itself".

    This is true. And then with this choice to develop for Xbox and Ps4, some suspicion...
    I hope DTG is not taking me for a ride.
     
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  39. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Active Member

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    Another thing, which I often read here, is that the editor should be released in June or otherwise in the second half of the year. But where did this news come from?
     
  40. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's just people guessing based on the belief that DTG were going to run a public Beta in December, so under normal circumstances that would mean a release version in May/June. But as it turned out there was no public Beta in December and no public Beta in first 3 months of this year, so at the earliest the Editor will be released around the end of this year (Q4). It's all guesswork because DTG don't say much and when they do, like the 2017 and 2018 release targets they gave for the Editor, it turns out to be wrong anyway.
     
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  41. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    That's not true, I didn't have the right information. As Matt said in our last stream, there was and is a closed beta.
     
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  42. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Active Member

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    I'm not a developer, so for me the editor only serves to upload creations (like repaints, scenarios etc.) kindly offered by people who are familiar with computer science. And here I take this opportunity to thank all those people who, with their skill, offer things like this for free.
    Perhaps DTG is not really aware of the fact that the impossibility of creating a convoy to its own taste and positioning it where one wants to subtract 80% of interest to the program.
     
  43. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Yes, slow and steady goes a long way. We are really glad that the feedback we received from those in the closed beta was very positive, they support our decision to take our time with this :) The tools are much more intuitive than the original TS1 editor, and it just feels really modern! :)
     
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  44. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    What caused the delay in the public beta? I don't understand how you can go from announcing being ready to initiate a public beta in a couple of weeks back in November to having to delay it for 3+ months, that's after the release was already delayed for a year.

    The TSW Editor was already sufficiently developed in 2016 to produce CSX Heavy Haul, so what's been happening with the development for the public version for the 3 years since? The persistent delay and lack of communication is a strange way to do business and makes me think there are other forces at play.

    Assuming that the Editor is released, how do DTG plan to mitigate the impact on the console market? Thus far the development of the TSW market has been built on the principle of parity between the content for consoles and PC; The release of the Editor will completely change the dynamic of the market. If I was DTG, after spending two years cultivating two markets, I'd be concerned with the implications of releasing the Editor at this stage, as the PC market being flooded with new content, features and bug fixes, whilst the consoles are stuck with just 6 or 7 DLCs a year, would definitely have an effect. I wouldn't blame DTG if they've taken the decision to restrict access to the Editor to select second parties, with the intent to increase the amount of DLC whilst ensuring the DLC is delivered with parity to both the PC and Consoles.

    As for 'slow and steady', why don't DTG take this approach with the base game and many of their DLCs? Why does the Editor get this special treatment?
     
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  45. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    I can tell you exactly what's the problem here.
    The editor is based on the normal Unreal Editor and that works only with the sourcedata of the game, it can't access and display stuff inside a cooked gamefile like we get.
    So what takes that much time is to expand the editor to work around those limitations. That it fills in data where necessary to handle it and all such stuff. With that you introduce a lot of possible bugs. And since they don't work with those files internally, it is not automatically tested through daily usage.

    An other aspect is that the current user base is made up of professionals who are trained in using those tools the right way.
    The future user base will be made up of a lot of people that see those tools for the first time and will make a lot of mistakes.
    Developing code to work with the correct inputs is simple, developing it further to cope with stuff going wrong without crashing and if possible giving hints of what went wrong takes much more time.
     
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  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    If that were the case, how did the much smaller dev team for Bus Simulator 18 manage to create a modified version of the UE4 Editor in a much shorter time and distribute it at the same time as the game itself? They also have Steam Workshop integration. The fact that DTG managed to create TSW itself and the TSW Editor in around the same amount of time they've been developing the public TSW Editor, suggests that it's either not being developed or it's very low priority; Either option contrary to their claim it's a high priority.

    I suspect most people using the TSW Editor will come from a background in developing for TS2019, so whilst they may be new to UE4 they'll still become fairly competent quickly, especially if they have already been using the standard UE4 Editor. I don't think DTG need to change the tools for public consumption, aside from providing documentation on how to use it. Based on the live stream, the inexperinced user could create simple scenarios as quickly as they could in TS2019, so I don't see scenario creation being any more difficult that TS2019. Same goes for route building. If there are issue or limitations with the Editor, so long as they are documented, I'm sure people are capable of working around them.
     
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  47. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    The editor isn't something that is going to have a price to use is why we have seen DLC come out before it. The DLC help sustain the game and income for it. There is hope that an editor helps sell the game and it probably will but there is no income DTG will get from it being available alone beyond deals with 3rd Parties.

    Also, I mentioned the big reason a console market exists to begin with and what DTG could do earlier. Remember that some users cant afford PCs that can play TSW, but they have consoles. The cost to switch from console to PC might be too much for some. We also might see 3rd Party content distributed to consoles via DTG in the future too.

    The PC and Console markets are already differentiated by capability and timeliness of DLC too. The addition of a PC based editor which has already been noted will not be available on consoles is nothing new either. I believe the console market is fine and an editor will not change much of what we currently see in treatment anyway.
     
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  48. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    First and foremost, apologies for the double post,

    You've mentioned the Bus Simulator 18 thing multiple times now. How many bus simulators and driving simulators do we have? There are a ton of them, so when a dev releases a new one, it needs to differentiate itself. It might have an editor, but does it have a community or third-party devs wanting to take advantage of it? I can't say, but the community behind TS appears much larger than that behind Bus Simulator 18. Looking though, it's a game that seems to call for a powerful computer at the least, and has issues with AI, depth of simulation, etc. I don't know what the devs for Bus Sim have made in terms of an editor (not an prominent feature at the least) but the devs at DTG want something that works with DLC we own, and future new content. It's not an easy job.

    We all have our grievances and things we would like to see done better by DTG, but they have for a long time played with their cards close to their chest. I remember times when things weren't as tight lipped, and we would see teased DLC that never came to be due to issues that would come up. They are probably just as annoyed in a sense that the editor has taken this long to come to us as we have been awaiting it too. They know in our hands, the game can really become something unique. It's clear that an editor is very much still on the way, and the timeline is longer than ever anticipated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  49. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I know a little more than I can let on. But regardless, the downvotes suggest most are not interested in what I have to say, so I'll leave you all to it.
     
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  50. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Active Member

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    Bus simulator 2018 editor is a showcase how to not release a modding tool. It's prettymuch just the dev branch of UE4 and some sample assets. TSW editor on the other hand needs to be able to load in cooked content from DLCs and convert them to raw assets (code only, blueprints are not preserved), which needs to be tested for every single type of asset and that is what takes time.
    Matt did his showcase with raw assets, which means that he have not used the "DLC importer".
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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