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Birmingham Cross City Reviews...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by inversnecky, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't you being a bit quick - it has barely been on release for more than a few hours and you want people reviews?
    Most people won't even have bought it yet
     
  3. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    People can give first impressions. I've not got it yet, but I watched the DTG Twitch stream last night and from that I saw I'm impressed. I'm familiar with parts of this line and the stations and railway infrastructure looked very good. I noticed that Aston had the correct concrete stilted platforms. The 323 sounded about right.

    I'm not sure that the HS2 building work by Curzon Street is correct for 2017, but I only got a glimpse from the stream.
     
  4. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    I'm one of the lucky ones who is off work today, so I have done a quick drive on it from Lichfield-Redditch and am very impressed.

    Every time people say this simulator is dead, someone somewhere comes up with something that proves the statement utterly false :D
     
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  5. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Based on the Discord server, it's not good. Reading references to defective 323s and - as to be expected - horrible sounds. I actually saw someone in the Discord say he commented about the quality in the livestream yesterday and was told off by a mod, which made me wonder how good the chat moderator training at DTG is as someone who has experience in the role elsewhere.
     
  6. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    I think it could have been how he said it, rather than saying it was bad (I had see a few comments about sounds not removed)
     
  7. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Horrible sounds?? They were literally recorded for DTG bespoke for this route by an actual class 323 driver, who drives this actual train on this actual line for a living. They are literally the exact sounds of the train. People suck.
     
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  8. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but they weren't recorded by AP so that makes them terrible apparently. I think the issue with the sound however is not the sounds themselves, but how the game handles them/how they've been implemented.
     
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  9. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Oh, well that's fair. If they're glitching or something. Just used to much gnashing of teeth over "authenticity" and figured that there would be people again moaning about unrealistic sounds not realizing their source.
     
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  10. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I don't personally know myself, I am just the messenger.
     
  11. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Active Member

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    Saw the stream last night, route looks good quality, little bit disappointing that is doesn't include Soho TMD or the Camp Hill line but you can't always get everything. 323 looks and sounds right, horn didn't sound quite right being that the sound didn't fade out if holding the horn, but otherwise alright.

    Edit: Just watched some videos and yes the sounds aren't working quite properly (gaps in the audio) and the motor run sounds are quite bad (might be the fan noise from the Class 170). Nothing that can't be fixed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  12. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I personally cannot tell, and I'm going off youtube videos and a fuzzy memory of riding one about 2 years ago, but it's the GTO sounds (that make it sound like it's rapidly changing gears when they accelerate) I think they don't quite match up with what you do, for example on the stream, Matt briefly put it into notch one and the sound played exactly the same as when he put it in notch 4. I'm not aware if that's realistic or not.
     
  13. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    And guaranteed neither are most of the people complaining most likely. Haha
     
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  14. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    The sound seems broken to me. Gaps in the audio, and a weird rumbling running sound.
     
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  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Not very good 323 sounds
     
  16. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Can you elabrote? What is not good about them? There do seem to be a couple little stutters, is that what you mean? Because those are literally 323 sounds otherwise.

     
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  17. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    It is the stutters/gaps and the slightly "off" timing for me personally. I really think the route is good and the 323 is good apart from that. Nothing that can't be fixed if the will exists to do so.
     
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  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    In the game, there are actual gaps when the pitch shifts... it goes on and off.
     
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  19. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Sounds more like something is broken than a design decision huh? Well, I guess we'll see if they care enough about their product to fix what seems like an obvious glitch, or if they just shrug and go, "AP can fix it and the gullible ones can pay another 10 quid"
     
  20. frank351981

    frank351981 New Member

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    for me: if the 323 was a single DLC => refund! The route looks nice so far. The train too, but the sound ot the trains ... The sounds itself has something of the melody of the real 323 (that is ok), but in the game it looks either the used soundfiles are broken, or they are wrong inserted because it sounds better when accelerating in highest notch P4 than in P1-P3. The slower the train accelerates (or brakes) more pauses/gaps in the sound are.
    And at higher speed its not so good too - at some point nothing changes anymore - 50mph sounds the same as at 80mph
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  21. OofBerry

    OofBerry New Member

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    Normal DTG. They have some decent sound available and absolutley butcher it. Getting up to speed the sound cuts out about 5 times from poor scripting (thats not just one typo). And when slowing the dynamic brake is tied to speed. Even without any brake applications, there are random dynamic brake sounds splattered in. Run sounds are aincent kuju. Normal dtg door scripting, the speed they open/shut could kill.

    The route itself is actually alright though. Some of the ground textures are a bit low res and old, and some of the scenery is a bit bare but route itself still acceptable.
     
  22. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    As a newbie to TS, I’m wondering how the route selection for TS2022 gets done: does a yearly game release comprise the routes released during the year? In other words, will TS2022 comprise Birmingham City Cross (Riesa Dresden, and an American route)?

    Is so, might be cheaper to wait for that...
     
  23. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes it's typically 3 DTG-made routes that had released since the previous version. Currently I believe the candidates will be -

    UK:
    - Cross-City
    DE:
    - Dresden
    US:
    - NEC Washington
    - The new Arizona one.

    They could pull a TS2016 and redo and re-release a route, and/or include an exclusive route.
     
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  24. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    As I don’t have Birmingham or Dresden, might be worth saving the pennies for TS2022 then.
     
  25. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I know from seeing the 2021 list not to buy any new routes at full price. Even DTG seems to know some aren't worth it, which is why they get a nice bundle discount. Either that or they truly think everything works and sounds good, but don't do proper beta testing to show how broken things can be. That said, Clinchfield and Fife both look interesting, so 2021 is actually not too bad.

    This is why they need players to do their beta testing for them. But based on a recent beta testing experience of my own (not with DTG, I will not elaborate on what or who), I don't know if they would even listen to the feedback.

    But if people think it actually sounds better, they will buy it and not complain. People pay for quality. That's the main thing here.

    And it's not like DTG plans for AP to fix everything. Besides, AP tends to create liveries to add to the train besides the original ones. So there is a lot in them that DTG doesn't do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  26. SammyDodger

    SammyDodger New Member

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    Thought I’d try help settle the sound debate going on. The sounds themselves sound exactly like a 323 which is nice. The sound issues people are complaining about is the clear and obvious cuts as you speed up and poorly timed “slowing down” noises. I like to think DTG could try and amend this but we will have to wait and see. I would also like to mention that I have lived right next to the cross city line all my life and have 323s passing right next to my house, and I have also been catching them to school and now work for the last 20+ years, so I know how they sound as it’s been drilled into my head since birth XD. Just stating that before anyone pulls the “but the sounds were done by someone who works there and he said they were perfect” card.
    Hope this helps.
    TLDR; sounds are good but poorly implemented.
     
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  27. OofBerry

    OofBerry New Member

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    Arizona routre is being made by milepost simulations. Yearly bundles are usually dtg made routes.
     
  28. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Ah, missed that bit. Thanks for letting me know :)
     
  29. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame, too, as there are often some really good routes that would be great in the annual bundle. Foreign packages include non-DTG items, so a US Edition might include this route. But not the regular three-pack.
     
  30. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    My review having used the line for work for 2years, and still use new street to aston, very accurate.

    Its great to see Birmingham get some love in the game, your not going to get all the landmarks because there is simply too many, if this line was done to perfection it would break the devs pc. Train modelling is good, but the sounds......wow!

    Not a good wow, its almost unplayable, ive done two runs and wont be back on it with a 323 until there is an update. Would of loved to have seen how new street can look in TSW2/3 but happy to play this once its fixed.

    route 9/10
    323 5/10 due to sound
    overall 7/10 but could be a 10 if they fix the sounds.
     
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  31. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Well now I've found out that Danny's merged it with the WCML-S I guess I better go buy it, thanks a bunch Danny.. :|:D
     
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  32. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Wait, he has? Is this on ATS? I don't see it on the Steam Workshop.

    It would make sense since they have all the AP trains that can cover the merged route, so not a bad place for it to go.
     
  33. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    I haven't been able to upload it yet - no one can upload scenarios for cross-city yet on workshop (it is being looked into though ) (well you can if you don't use Cross City Rolling Stock for scenarios)
     

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  34. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Looking at that image, I just realized how tiny Cross City is compared to WCML South - or, for perspective, how big WCML South is.

    By the way, fun fact. DPSimulation has a Birmingham Cross City route. "V1.0 includes the line branch from Redditch to Barnt Green along with the main line as far as Longbridge." This looks different than the published route here based on that map (I don't know where the other locations are on that map, mind), so I will be curious to see if he merges his route on his site and possibly even revises his segment to use the new assets, possibly creating a Workshop-based merge. If his segment is fully absorbed into the new one, his route may no longer be needed.

    EDIT: Got my answer. Per the manual, that v1.0 segment is the tiny section at the bottom. Nothing from Longbridge to New Street, or further north, is included, and the spur to Bromsgrove is also missing. I don't have the requirements for that route, but since it seems to be heavily superceded by this, I suspect that route will be removed soon.

    EDIT v2.0: Did we have to bundle EWS 66 v2.0 again? We already got this with York Modern. I suspect the reason is because the train is used on the route, but it might have been better to just include a new livery {(at least) for it here and create scenarios for it separately rather than use something from 2013. So this quickly loses a little bit of value.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  35. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    It could well be the WCML's size hides that :) (but then again Bromsgrove on Cross City only became a thing in early 2018, that's when it was electrified )
     
  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Ah. Either way, the DPS one is so small I thought it was intentionally left out for a straight drive. Only two stations, by my examination. We have over 20 more. Now, if only the 323 sound scripting can be fixed; that appears to be the main complaint. I mean, it's good they are actual sounds, but the major complaint I've seen is about the sound scripting and how they cut off unrealistically. Clearly, some people look for the realism. I don't fault that. LOL
     
  37. SJA

    SJA Active Member

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    AP have updated their track EP and sky & weather EP as of yesterday to include XC, for anyone who owns those and wants to redownload.
     
  38. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Don't hold your breath on DTG fixing the sounds - they are not know for it.
    I also worked as a Driver on the FNW 323s and the poor implementation of the sounds has spoilt it for me.

    So if there is a community fix or - even better - if AP do an update I might get this add-on

    Peter
     
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  39. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to see AT’s views (and indeed reactions):



    Certainly from what I’ve heard, comparing to the real thing, although the sounds seem well created, there does seem to be an issue with gaps in the sound. Hopefully it’ll be rectified soon.

    Listening to the real thing, I can’t exactly say the acceleration sounds are pleasing!
     
  40. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    What’s the deal with some of houses that AT highlighted in his review?!

    17B5FB0C-C99A-42BB-A445-8B5C9600B1D3.jpeg 2F3A4DD0-3BAC-403A-A930-076EAEFAFC44.jpeg 7959D617-9CAF-49E7-9BD3-86DC59D082D1.jpeg 10B232E0-F77F-4E65-9D8B-01A30C379ABB.jpeg
     
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  41. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    Easter Egg :)
     
  42. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    A whole street of them?!
     
  43. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the sailing boat on the canal.
     
  44. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    The bits of canal I saw, the water wasn’t moving, it seemed.
     
  45. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    Yes :)
     
  46. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Canals don't actually flow like rivers though. They are static entities and are only disturbed by a boat passing, a lock being filled or by heavy rain causing flooding.
     
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  47. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    At least AT got it I suppose (yes that did surprise me a little if I'm honest)

    If a little fun spoils it for the rivet counters well then we'll have to cheer them up..

    100-x-rivets-snap-head-rivets-violet-dia-1-8-length-9-16-part-sp80-409-g19-17470-p.jpg

    count away guys, knock yourselves out.. :)
     
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  48. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Ship, sailing ship... :)
     
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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  50. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Bought it. Ran it. Cringed at the authentic but horrifically broken sounds. Noped right out of there and got a refund from Steam. I'm done paying for DTG's unfinished rubbish. If they decide to comment on the issue and commit to fixing it, I'll buy it because I think the route itself is nice. But the fact that they've been complete silent suggest they knew about the problems and like usual, just don't give a darn. Went and bought the new Aerosoft CRJ for MSFS with that money instead.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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