Bold Prediction: No Modern Us Passenger Routes Outside The East Coast In The Near Future.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Blacknred81, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So, with the 1st route of Rush Hour released, and after pondering it a bit, as well as looking back into the past into TS1, I personally don't see Dovetail making any "Passenger Specific" routes outside of the east coast in the near future. And my thoughts on this comes down to 2 areas.....

    -Licensing
    -Traffic Density

    As far as the East Coast goes, its the area with one of the highest density areas as far as people and rail services in the US, not to mention DTG has good reputation with most companies that operate out of there and has featured them branded in either TSW or TS1.

    -Amtrak
    -MTA LIRR
    -MTA Metro North
    -New Jersey Transit
    -And now MBTA is added to that list.

    This is completely different when looking at the other parts of the country where DTG has made routes before, where branding has been omitted when they were released on TS1.

    This includes....
    -Metrolink
    -Coaster
    -Metra
    -Tri-Rail
    -MARC

    And for a route like Pacific Surfliner (Which is a very popular request) not having Metrolink or Coaster on the line would really remove a good chunk of life on that line (Between LA and SD). And that is not factoring in the fact that BNSF is the only freight carrier on that portion as well (Which is another licensing issue). Meaning if DTG were to create the Surfliner with actual branding, you would be left with only Surfliner trains, the Southwest Chief, and Amtrak's Yard at Redondo Junction. Running the route north would fix the freight issue, but you still lack the traffic from Metrolink's commuter trains on the line.

    The same issues can be said for the Chicago area as well, without the branding of Metra trains, routes around that area would have to focus on Amtrak trains, and whatever freight branch would be chosen for a line, but most of the traffic wont exist without Metra.....

    And most other commuter lines just don't have the traffic density that the East Coast has, especially when compared to rail lines around the world...

    So I feel like if either....

    A: DTG goes ahead and releases unbranded content for TSW2.....
    B: DTG can work out licensing deals with those that they couldn't in the past......
    C: DTG pulls a licensing from somewhere we didn't expect.

    I just don't see any new Modern Passenger Lines being created from anywhere that isn't the East Coast, with IMO the most likely route being set around New York (Either the Hudson Line, NY to NH, or NY south with Amtrak and NJT).

    I mean it would be nice to be wrong, guess I'll see where DTG decides to go in the future for NA routes in TSW2......

    (Maybe this post will age poorly)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well they might attempt something light rail such as SF Muni or San Diego trolley, but not holding my breath on that.
     
  3. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think there are routes to be explored that could be outside of the east coast. E.g. FrontRunner - the route is about 130 km, a tad longer than we have now, but we already have the passenger train models for that and freight trains are run by UP, so one new mainline diesel and rolling stock is good to go.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The weird thing about Frontrunner, is that they parallel Union Pacific's tracks for their entire route except the suspended area north of Ogden. So there isn't really any interference between the 2.
    9773.1405778300.jpg a5a4c88f550978f944da8f8368809a73.jpg

    Though If DTG were to do this, it would be more of a 50/50 Passenger Freight route than a pure passenger route.
     
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  5. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    No interference between the two might end up being an opportunity as they would be able to do whatever they need on the freight side without a need to precisely follow the schedule, passenger trains have.
     
  6. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I think this might be the perfect opportunity to introduce NS into the game.
     
  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    A 50/50 passenger/freight route is the ideal as far as I'm concerned. Most likely candidate is the Miami to Palm Beach route with Amtrak and CSX freight. Not my personal favorite. I would prefer something along the lines of the Racetrack in suburban Chicago. Unfortunately, there is that apparently unobtainable Metra license, not to mention BNSF.
     
  8. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    OK by me, even if it would be strictly freight.
    We have UP, CSX, CN and Amtrak. NS would be the next logical licensed road.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  9. kobokren

    kobokren Member

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    I mostly hang in the playstation section, but with how everyone is behaving there, I decided to pop in here, and this post caught my attention. I am personally glad to have an american passenger route that ISN'T in NYC. I remember silently thinking at one point, they've modeled and remodeled NY twice already. Maybe now it's time to move on to something else? i would love to see my railroad realized in TSW personally. They already did it in TS2021, but I think NJT would look outstanding in TSW.
     
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  10. Pixelade

    Pixelade Member

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    I'd love to see NYC to Trenton or NYC to Philly (probably too long) in TSW2... it would look so amazing :cool:
     
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  11. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think DTG would make the Miami-WPB since they cant get the branding for the Tri Rail trains, since without them, you are only left with Amtraks 2 Silver Service trains as the passenger trains on the route, leaving the timetable for the line very minimal for passenger services.
     
  12. dr1980

    dr1980 New Member

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    Come north of the border to Toronto…plenty of options for high traffic passenger operations. Maybe one or two in Montreal too.
     
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  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't mind the 5400 hp diesels and 14 car trains tbh. upload_2021-8-24_22-52-52.png
     
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  14. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    If I was in charge of DTG developement DLC stateside I would go with the following next releases.

    1. Loco DLC Avelia Liberty trainsets - added value for Boston Sprinter
    2. Washington DC route with both Avelia & ACS64's and for the new loco PC42 and Amtrak LD single level coaches. (Switching between ACS & PC42 on LD in Washington DC would be interesting scenarios). The PC42 could also make an apperance in the Sand Patch Route as Amtrak Capitol Limited does run over this route stopping at Cumberland.
    3. Loco DLC - Amtrak Charger ALC-42
    4a. Florida Route DLC - Utilising the (now) existing Amtrak LD trainsets, CSX Locomotive power & frieght. Then add SunRail MP32PH-Q locos and Bombardier bi level coaches
    OR
    4b Chicago Hub - Utilising the (now) existing Amtrak LD trainsets, CSX Locomotive power & frieght & Then add Metra MP36PH-3C locos and Bombardier bi level coaches - you could also sub in Metra F40PH's in
    5b Amtrak BiLevel LD coaches as a (cheap) DLC pack.

    So yes straight off the bat I dont expect anything outside the NE but logical expansion pushes out of the NEC quite quickly.
     
  15. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    What is it with the Avelia Liberty craze? AFAIK they're still only in the testing phase, Acela is still running all the services and is a better-known train. In my opinion, Avelia will make sense as a DLC in 3-5 years when they're fully deployed. Also subjectively Avelia Liberty is pretty ugly, but that's up to personal preferences.
     
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  16. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Its not pretty ugly, its horrendous looking lets nots wrap it up as anything else :D, but in serious it is Amtrak's baby and Id suspect that unless an agreement is already in place for the Acela to be modelled I cant see Amtrak being overjoyed at the prospect of it being produced ahead of the Avelia IMHO
     
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  17. kobokren

    kobokren Member

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    is 5400HP enough to haul that many cars? i feel the motors would burn out given how heavy they can be when full of passengers.
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There is no way for DTG to do any research on the Liberty, which is still in prototype testing and not in service yet. Moreover, NEC Boston is explicitly set in 2019. Besides, the Acela is not only the current HST, it's also much prettier than the Avelia pig-dog.
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even loaded, passenger coaches don't weigh all that much compared to freight cars.
     
  20. EpilepticWeasel

    EpilepticWeasel Member

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    Where do you get your information on the "unobtainable licenses"? Do you think that Metrolink and Coaster licenses are what is holding up a Pacific Surfliner route? Or is it length? Or is it something else entirely? Having grown up there and around those trains I agree that the timetable would be seriously lacking without Metrolink if you made the route either north or south of LA. Without Metrolink, Coaster, and BNSF the southern route is almost not worth it at all because at least the diversity of UP freight and the Coast Starlight on the northern section will break things up from the 10 Pacific Surfliner services that run this section in real life. They could add the UP yards of LATC (across the river from Union Station), 4th Street Yard, GEMCO, and Oxnard. There would be plenty to do with freight operations using real life trains that run on the route (even if they don't all run every single day). I suppose the other option could be creating an "unrealistic" timetable where the Surfliners are actually very busy and run on the hour or however often they would want to make it. But again growing up there and around these trains, that would not feel right to me. I love the idea of an LA to Goleta Surfliner route and have tons of experience and resource information and would love to help DTG bring the route to the game. I think it would be a massive hit with tons of DLC and money making potential for DTG. The Surfliner and the option for a P42DC on the Starlight and Surfliners would be huge sellers. But if the Metrolink and or Coaster license are truly unobtainable, the route doesn't have much life. Curious your thoughts. I could discuss the Surfline all day.
     
  21. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Given that none of those he mentioned have ever appeared in official licensed products for Train Simulator then I can understand how that concluesion has been arrived at TBH. I mean it might just have been on Train Sim it wasnt cost effective to get those licenses and the greater spread of TSW would swing the economies of scales but unless we are on the inside of DTG we'll never know.
     
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  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Like I've stated in my original post plus what was posted above, I'm basing my conclusion on the fact DTG couldn't get either license way back in the day for either line when they included them as loco DLC for the PS route on TS1. That was back in 2014, not sure if DTG can try and renegotiate license with the 2 lines again, and see if anything has changed, but for the time being, I'm leaving the future of both Metrolink, Coaster, and the Pacific Surfliner route in doubt until I see something different.
    capsule_616x353 (1).jpg capsule_616x353.jpg
     
  23. EpilepticWeasel

    EpilepticWeasel Member

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    Gotcha. Thanks for sharing that. I don't see them releasing unbranded stuff for TSW2 as the whole point of the Train Sim World series is supposed to be realistic immersion and that would totally break the immersion to the point I think that most people would rather pass on them altogether than to have unbranded stuff. I don't understand why a rail operator and especially a passenger one would pass on the opportunity to partner with a game. Coming from a business and marketing background, having your brand name appear for free all over the world like this is free advertising and nothing but good PR to the point of potentially gaining new fans and tourism business as a result. It seems to only have positive effects without really any negative ones, but I guess I am not an expert here. And ever since 2008, Metrolink has not looked too fondly on the railfan community, but who knows their reasoning.

    Needless to say I agree with you that we won't see any passenger focused routes outside of the NEC area for a long time, which is sad because they miss out on a lot of great American passenger trains especially the non-electrified stuff that a lot of people really would like. I will be very curious to see what the future holds for US routes as we are still behind in number from Germany and the UK.
     
  24. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly some Railfans can cause operational issues by tresspassing or interferring/distracting safety critical train crew in their general duties, you only need to watch some rail fan youtube videos to see why they are detered in certain regions of the world!!!
     
  25. kobokren

    kobokren Member

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    There is an infamous station on the line I work where it is full of railfans almost all the time except at night. the weekends are the worst. I seriously wonder what lives they lead if this is how they spend their days. Are they really so bored that watching trains go by is entertaining for them?
     
  26. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Even though the 2008 crash was caused by the engineer texting a railfan, which he shouldn't of been doing while operating any type of train (Or any vehicle).
     
  27. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Railfanning maybe is about... IDK... being a fan of railroads? Watching trains is part of that I'd say.
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unless they're interfering with the operational railway I don't see why it's anyone's business if people want to watch trains. Railways have always brought rail watchers, train spotters etc and I can think of much worse things for them to be doing to pass the time.
     
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  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That will end up resembling UK routes TVL GWE Huddersfield Line the Northern Trans-Pennine with DLC Heavy Freight. For the German routes you're looking at RRO RSN Main Spessart Bahn Hamburg Lubeck and the new route DDR (German Democratic Republic) Riesa-Dresden for that type of Operation 50/50 Freight Passenger. Cane Creek give layers to Frontrunner
     
  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That will be perfect for Oakville subdivision route GO Transit owned by the province of Ontario government Lakeshore West line. Keep in mind Amtrak Maple Leaf operates on the route too
     
  31. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I could see them doing the metro north Harlem line with the M3 and M7 locomotives from grand central station to southeast or white plains.
     

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