Br 101 Bugs And Errors List

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Jo_Kim, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    829
    1: Because the Locomotive uses the Dynamic (Electric) Brake the Brake Cylinders are cut off to achieve an even braking force throughout the train. The coaches don't have dynamic brakes, therefore they apply their air brakes according to the pressure drop in the main air pipe.

    2: Yes the BR 101 has an automatic holding brake. This only applies to the brakes on the locomotive, the brake pressure in the rest of the train is still controls by the driver.

    3: Because the automatic holding brake does only apply to the locomotive itself the resulting braking force is very small. Divers are trained to release the train brake before the train comes to a halt and let the automatic holding brake do the very last meters. On trains without an automatic system, the driver releases the train brake and applies the Direct (Locomotive) Brake (for example on the IC Cab Car)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  2. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    648
    Thanks for the info!

    (1): Yeah, that's what I guessed. It is similar to how the Swedish X2000 trains work (which I'm more familiar with). The motor trailer/locomotive has regenerative brakes that apply instead of the locomotives air brakes to achieve the same brake force as would the air brakes. Weirdly enough this train has combined tread brakes and disc brakes on the locomotive (I think the tread brakes are there to remove contaminants that would otherwise reduce friction but I'm not certain of this.

    Interestingly they (the X2 and BR101) were both made by the same manufacturer Adtranz (although before ABB merged it's train manufacturing section with Daimler Benz they made the X2).

    (3). I noticed this while driving the train just now. I reduced to 2-1B at low speed and then at around 5 km/h I released the brakes and the result was a butter smooth stop :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    2,964
    TSG said the BR101 was a big red experiment, I hope the experiment was not "is it better to make a realistic loco or a loco that works how the community expects it to" hopefully other TSG's train will be more similar to the 101 and its "bugs" than the clinical maybe too simple DTG's TRAXX.

    Although an in-depth manual would have gone a long way to prevent this sort of things.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. Amax

    Amax Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2020
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    179
    Why in the cab is the top brake button activated and the brake does not change
     
  5. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    In point \o/

    If there is no time for full documentation or (probably rightly) you (DTG) set it up, nobody will read these long manuals, you can limit yourself to information on one A4 sheet, only basic characteristics and functions.

    101 is of course a pearl and I would also like more trains like this in the game. Here is another point that comes to mind:

    There should be some standard set - what should work for the game. Matt has explained some mechanisms very well recently - excessive realism is a niche that not everyone needs to be happy. Maybe a minority. I paraphrase.

    While. Example SD 40 - AFM indicator does not work. Dash 8 - AFM indicator is working. In the case of German equipment - something would also be found. 101 is probably a sufficient standard for the general public, and it works. Even I will sleep peacefully without any "needless rest". Just, please, let's stick to this standard. And this one 'A4' page. I assure you, it's at least a few percentage points more on Steam in the ratings. I can bet on it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    2,964
    Surely, but those are not mutually exclusive, TSW is full of decently detailed and decently realistic locomotives, and that's completely fine, then there are a few odd ones out which for one reason or another are better/harder to operate, the F40PH, the BR363 and the BR101 immediately come to mind. Whether some locomotives should be put in another range a sort of "expert range" so people know they are a bit more challenging than usual is another matter, maybe these loco should also be a bit more expensive. We know one the reasons the 101 was so good was because TSG went above and beyond what he was paid for.

    My main point is simply that I am worried the lesson to be learned from the 101 is:

    If you do a more realistic model, you'll have to put in more effort, time and cost, and in return you get less happy customers, some because can't drive the loco like the others, some because they blindly assume every odd thing is a bug.

    The latter problem can be solved with a manual, which tells "this is not a bug, neither is this, etc..." and the former by putting the DLC in a "pro" range, but that means putting in even more effort by having to write lengthy manuals and probabily you reduce the number of people that will buy that DLC because they don't care about absolute realism. The solution, to me would be to increase the price, but that would cause a lot of discontent, so, as a developer, sadly, you continue to produce your average DLCs... see the BR155, 182, etc... which are fine, but not great.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  7. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Full agreement. In the next few days, I will find some time and make such sample characteristic datasheets. Short and colorful. Maybe it will even be useful to someone. The goal is different: this missing documentation doesn't have to be that big a sacrifice or a cost. Recent adventures with ratings, e.g. on Steam, are due to misunderstandings. You summed it up perfectly well. My last corpo had the following rule: 1. First, full information.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    303
    Those who say that it is wrong for the locomotive to slip when it is raining. (Its to slippery)
    Are you a train drivers?. I feel it's pretty good. Its slippery when its raining. I have self tested this in real.
    But i agree with wheel slip protection. it probably works better in reality.
     
  9. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    Check Maik‘s posts on super slip.
     
  10. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    648
    To me, more realism is always better, but I'm a geek who likes study sims :D. I also wonder if DTG would be too worried about steam reviews, it hasn't stopped them from releasing some DLCs that needed more bug fixing LOL. I do think it is sad though when good products like some of the TS2021 "Pro" DLCs get negative reviews from people who obviously hasn't read the manual. Same with some of the reviews for the CP AC4400 from people who ignored the instructions to only use the DLC in 64-bit.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    3,388
    Does the 'door indicator' (T) work?
    It is never ON for me.
    Maybe it should be like that? BR o7

    temp.png
     
  12. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    472
    It worked only for the Metropolitan. Nowadays, the driver stick their head out of the window.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  13. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    829
    ↓ ↓ ↓
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page