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PlayStation Br Class 31 ‘cement Circle’

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by matjamca, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Hi,

    Twice now I have been stuck at a red signal doing the BR Class 31 Cement Circle scenario. The signal is between Stockton Cut Junction and Tees Yard.

    Watching a YouTube video of the scenario, it seems this red is to allow another freight train to come past you from behind, but this isn’t happening for me. The signal just stays red.

    Any reason why this is happening.
     
  2. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Looking at the map, it looks like the freight train supposed to pass is also stuck at a red light.
     
  3. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Three times now.
    Feel like crying :(
     
  4. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You do realise they dont plan to fix any bugs on TSW2020.
     
  5. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    I know. I’m just wondering why my Cement Circle is bugged, yet people don’t have an issue with it on YouTube.

    Plus, I can’t find evidence of anyone else experiencing it.
     
  6. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Member

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    I just came on to look for this problem. Have exact same issue.

    First time I had saved and resumed, assumed it was a save bug. Next time I did it in one sitting but nothing changed. The class 37's don't want to move, are sitting on a red and if you use free cam they have no drivers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
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  7. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. If more people could check it out, that would be appreciated.

    I’ve logged a support ticket, but as TrainSim_Fan has said, it’s probably doubtful there’ll be a fix.
     
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  8. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Have you ever been able to complete this scenario in the past?
     
  9. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    The train not appearing for me on Cement Circle is headed by two Class 20 locomotives rather than two Class 37. There is no driver. This might be why the scenario has glitched up as I have the Class 31 and Class 20 DLCs installed.

    I’ve just tried it again after rebuilding my PS4’s database and it still won’t work.

    I’m going to try on a new profile and if it still doesn’t work, I might delete the game and not install the Class 20 DLC.
     
  10. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    This is worrying news. I have completed this several times on PS4 and the two 37s have always appeared and passed on the left. I'll give it a try when I get half an hour to myself and see if it still works for me.
     
  11. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    I’ve just tried it again on a new profile. This time the freight train due to pass was headed by Class 37’s but again they had no driver meaning it couldn’t pass me in order to clear my signal.

    As the freight train locomotives switch from the Class 20 to Class 37 it might not be caused by the Class 20 DLC, but it would be interesting to know if other players with the Class 20 DLC can complete the Cement Circle scenario or if only players who don’t have the Class 20 DLC can complete it.

    For the time being at least, my Class 31 DLC (which incidentally I bought and downloaded the same time as the Class 20 DLC) has been rendered worthless.

    I have messaged Sam and he has said if more people experience the issue, the greater chance it has of the support team looking into the issue, so if you can try the scenario and report back, that would be much appreciated.
     
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  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I have the same problem as you described. The coal train with two class 37s is stuck at a red. The road isn't set for it either. So the whole scenario is jammed up. I've taken screenshots and will submit a ticket. I wonder how many other things are broken, that's my concern now with support ending soon. I wonder if this is caused by all paired locomotives being shown on the map as nose to nose. Before the class 20 came out, the 37s were shown on the map as both facing the same way. I suppose this makes for easy substitution between 37s and 20s but has it messed up the scenario because the game can't decide which way is which? Sometimes on Tees Valley you get the signal behind you in the HUD until the train moves. Could this be the cause? I've submitted a ticket so we'll have to wait and see what happens. It might be worth checking the other scenarios featuring classes 31 and 37.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  13. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Thanks for checking it Tonto62

    If more players can check and report back, the greater chance we have of getting a fix. DTG Protagonist has messaged me to say he can escalate this issue if more than one person has the problem. It seems like it might be caused by the Class 20 based on the nose to nose configuration of the lead locomotives of the train that isn’t appearing where it should be.

    Fingers crossed we can get a quick fix.
     
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  14. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Thanks folks, the more readily a problem can be replicated the more obvious the solution is.
     
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  15. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    It's been a while since I ran this, November in fact and I had no issues as you can see here around 27:30 I think is the red light you are referring to.
    I'll run it again though soon as I can and report back.

     
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  16. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    27:30 in your video is the junction from which the train is supposed to appear.

    29:30 is the signal I’m getting stuck at and where you see the stuck train (for me) passing your Class 31.

    If you could check it that would be great. Let us know if you have the Class 20 DLC installed or not.
     
  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I have the same problem. There appears to be two AI trains not doing what they are supposed to, one that supposed to pass where you get stuck at the red and another that is supposed to pass in the opposite direction at the previous junction, which you used to have to wait for if I remember correctly, but now as it stays at the red signal you go right through and then get stuck at the following red signal, where we have all being getting the same problem.

    The train that is supposed to pass was in my case a double Class 20 empty steel train and the train at the previous junction was a double Class 37 empty coal train.
     
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  18. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    I’ve noticed that second train (the first one you encounter after the 25mph speed limit). I also noticed that it’s locomotives are nose to nose too. It does seem like like the Class 20 DLC has messed up the AI.
     
  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they’ve made the doubles nose to nose for the Class 20 and it’s had an unexpected effect. The trains in TVL already had a hard time knowing which way they were pointing before that, although that’s probably a whole other issue.
     
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  20. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    DTG Protagonist

    Hi Sam,

    It seems that everyone who tries this scenario is encountering this bug. Which seems to be connected to the Class 20 DLC and the fact the Class 20 operates nose to nose. It seems to have confused the AI trains/signals so they no longer do what they are supposed too.

    Can you replicate at your end?
    Can you escalate this to the support team for a fix?

    - matjamca
     
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  21. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    I’ve not tried other TVL scenarios.
    There may be other issues caused by the Class 20 being nose to nose too.
     
  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I had a look, and the Cement Circle scenario now looks broken to me..... The two AI trains on the triangle before Tees Yard actually spawn there right at the start of the scenario, behind the reds. By the time I got to signal TY 214 the road was set for me all the way to the stop objective, but the signal was red. I waited for quite a while, and then I crept past it (<0.1mph). The next signal (TY 213) was also red, and I crept past that as well. But then I lost the path to the stop objective (I was suddenly given the path for the 2x37s).... and then there was no way out.....

    I could try again, and creep past those reds immediately.... but it is pointless (as I suspect that I will lose the path again anyway, when I pass those reds..... but I might be able to get through if the path settings are purely based on clock-time alone). In any case, the correct operation of this scenario is in the video by TinTin_57 above, and this no longer seems possible anymore, as the AI won't move.

    The question now is.... if it becomes necessary to alter any code.... will that now count as further feature development of the TVL DLC, as suggested to me (generally) by longo239 ..... or will it still count as responsible ongoing bug-fixing support for this pre TSW2 DLC......?

    Tricky one..... I reckon that DTG will do the right thing and fix this bug that they've introduced into TVL. But we'll just have to wait and see.

    EDITED TO ADD: I think the first place to look would be to see if the triggers are working correctly at the point where you complete the "GO VIA LOCATION Stockton Cut Junction" event - as I suspect this is where the trigger is for the 2x37s to get a clear road, and to then move.

    Quick Q - Has the physics for the Class 31 radically changed....? I am sure that I have never had a pair of 31s slipping about so much..... and the brakes now seem incredibly weak..... I am sure these guys were much chirpier, the last time that I used them........
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  23. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    The brakes are abysmal. The first thing I noticed when playing the Cement Circle route and the reason for another BR Class 31 post I made. It’d be quicker to stop the train by hanging your leg out the door and using your foot to create friction on the ballast. I don’t know if it’s another bug as only recently got the DLC.
     
  24. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I do think it has changed on the Class 31.... on TVL.... but it could just be me getting used to the much grabbier Class 20 brakes.

    If it has changed, I actually think it is for the better. More of a challenge. ;-)
     
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  25. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t notice any change to the brakes to be honest. They were always a bit spongy. I got caught out by a speed limit change I’d forgotten was coming which I may have made with the Class 20 but as far as I can remember the Class 31 brakes were always slow acting.
     
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  26. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right - I have re-learned how to drive it now.... it's fun... you get added mystery on whether you will stop in time, and/or whether you will run out of shoe leather, like Indiana Jones trying to stop a mining cart with his feet.......... ;-)
     
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  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I gave it another go (or three...). This scenario is certainly broken.

    I think it is actually possible to complete it.... but if it is possible, then it is now exceptionally difficult. You cannot complete it in conventional simulation - for starters, you have to break all the speed limits on your way to TY 214 to buy you some time until you catch the 101 ahead of you..... and then you can certainly get through the first red light on 7% direct brake against the gradient... and after you pass it, the path to the objective is still open. But then getting past the second red "quickly" is really hard because the gradient is tricky to manage at < 0.1mph.....

    Anyway - short answer - it is broken. And it's a key "Scenario" for the Class 31 DLC - so it should be very high priority for a fix.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  28. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Member

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    Never tried. I bought the class 31 ages ago but was still hooked on NTP. Only started driving it when the class 20 was giving me the sound glitch. My first real dive into TVL and just buggy. Real shame as it seems like a great route.
     
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  29. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Is this why the external camera view is messed up e.g. front camera shows the rear and vice versus?
     
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  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is, as well the HUD showing the signal behind you when you’re stopped. It can be very annoying.
     
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  31. TheTipsyRaccoon

    TheTipsyRaccoon New Member

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    I’m just gonna pop up and add my name to the list of people that can’t complete this. Annoying that I’ve managed to find workarounds for every bug this game has thrown at me so far up until now.

    Ticket submitted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  32. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it's broken here too, and I'm playing on PC, so this isn't just a console bug either. Just bought both the 31 and 20 and neither this scenario nor the Class 20 "Chopper and Change" scenario can be completed...
     
  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I had no problem with Chopper and Change. Completed that first time with no issues (on PS4). What was your issue with it?

    As an aside, there is no such thing as "just a console bug". A bug on a console version of the game is a "defect in the programming that occurs on a platform that the software is meant to work on". A defect on a PC version of the game is also a "defect in the programming that occurs on a platform that the software is meant to work on." So they have the same status.
     
  34. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    DTG Protagonist

    Hi Sam,

    Given the number of people experiencing this issue on console and PC, please can you tell us if this has been escalated to the support team for investigation and a fix?

    - matjamca
     
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  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am on PC and did not experience any issues
     
  36. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Stuck at a red light halfway through as well, there are other reports of it elsewhere.

    Or... in other words, a console bug?
    Really?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  37. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    WAIT- actually, I AM NOT experiencing the same issue- I'm having a near identical issue on "Tank Troubles" instead. sorry, didn't really pay attention to the name of the scenario.
     
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  38. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    This is really useful - it looks like large tracts of the TVL timetable/scheduler are now broken, breaking a lot of the primary Class 31 Scenarios - a key part of the offering with the Class 31 DLC.

    I wonder if, with TSW2, they will introduce QA/QC and maybe think about doing some testing before they release TSW2 and any new DLC?
     
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  39. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    I certainly hope so. There was clearly no testing done for the Class 20 DLC or if there was, it was clearly inadequate.
     
  40. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I've successfully completed this activity on a PC, but will run it again just to check. More soon . . .

    Well! This time through, I also had to stop for a red signal. It is located just past Stockton Junction. It first showed up as a yellow and then turned red at about 14:35. There are several AI trains in the area, all but one of which is stationary; the one that is moving is on a track that should not affect the driven train.
    The problem may be related to speed, since both speed limits and track slope angles change constantly.
    I'm going to try this again from the beginning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  41. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. May I ask, are you referring to the Cement Circle scenario and do you have the class 20 dlc installed?
     
  42. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Of course!!!!!
     
  43. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    Ok.....just establishing the facts. Sorry.
     
  44. TheTipsyRaccoon

    TheTipsyRaccoon New Member

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    I’d like to add that it happens to me, and I don’t have the Class 20 DLC. The freight train that’s stuck at a red by Stockton junction is obviously two Class 37’s for me but they’re still coupled nose-to-nose according to the map.

    I can only assume this problem will happen to everyone that has the latest patch installed. The one that preps the game for the Class 20 DLC dated 15th June.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  45. Anna_AWVR

    Anna_AWVR Active Member

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    Good News! I made a fix for PC users. The Class 20 update is in fact what broke the scenario. I did some testing and with console commands (Universal Unreal Unlocked) you can manually get your train to Tees Yard with setting your own signals. Even when I gave the two Class 37 trains an approach signal they wouldn't move.

    The simple fact that the lead units are facing backwards softlocks the services and as such the dispatcher can't set a route for them.

    So my fix replaces all base TVL formations, Timetable and DataTrack with the 11/13/19 versions. This enables the services to run the proper back-to-back formation and operate normally. The one catch with this fix (which I put in the readme). Is that outside of the base TVL scenarios, it removes the Class 20 from Service Mode. So it should really only be used as a fix for this one scenario.

    CementCircleFixScreenshot.jpg
    Installation instructions are in the zip file.
    As for console users, I don't have a way of pushing this to you. So submit tickets if you can.
     

    Attached Files:

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  46. matjamca

    matjamca Active Member

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    Hopefully this fix will allow the support team to develop a permanent fix across all platforms.

    DTG Protagonist - Sam, could you make the support team aware?

    - matjamca
     
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  47. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    So i made a proper fix with actual working build of the game (not replacing whole service mode folder with older version and removing Class 20 from the services). This will keep your Class 20 in service mode so you can enjoy full working game.

    http://www.trainsim.cz/?mod=article&showid=2379 - there you can download my fix

    - with Class 20 DTG changed service formations which are even use in some scenarios... so for that Cement Circle scenario it is Class31 Sc02
    What that fix do ?
    - i modded and copy the shared formations from service mode folder inside the Class 31 SC02 formation folder - so there is 2 same formations in the game but one is used in service mode and that second one is used for that Cement Circle scenario which include fixed double locos
    - i modded scenario timetable so it can read the modded sc02 formations

    This is PC only fix... for PS4 and XboX One DTG will have to bring some solution.
     
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  48. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Can you please give DTG your clear permission (if that would be needed) to copy and paste the effect of your work (just in case your method is the only solution) .... so that they can roll it out for console users.....?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  49. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    I dont think it will work on consoles. They will need to do the same think again in their tools and cook it for the consoles. I think consoles files are encrypted. As i dont have the tools than i cant make fix for everybody (PC users only).
     
  50. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - I get that. What I am hinting at is that you have provided an off-the-shelf solution for PCs, and that maybe DTG could now look at that solution, reverse engineer it into UE, and then deploy it across PC and consoles.... if that is okay with you..

    And since you and Anna_AWVR appear to be the only people that have made progress with fixing the issue, I would hope that, as a bare minimum... that DTG Protagonist can sort you both out with a free code to TSW2..... ;-)
     
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