Braking Power Class 101 Diesel Legend Gwe

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by VION, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. VION

    VION Active Member

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    In the Diesel Legend DLC of the Great Western Express, the Class 101 seems to have too weak a braking system compared to the Tees Valley and also the Northern Trans Pennine versions. Is it to stick as much as possible to the reality of the brakes of this DMU or should the braking power be readjusted a bit stronger? Thanks for your feedback on the braking power of this redesigned Class 101.
     
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  2. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    The brakes across the whole game on the whole have always been too harsh so I think DTG are finally doing some physics homework and research, realising the error of their previous attempts and have started to make the braking physics a bit more realistic. They could do with doing that on the Class 166 too
     
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  3. VION

    VION Active Member

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    I agree with your analysis but in the case of the Class 101, when maximum force is applied to the brakes at high speed it should slow down little but at low speed the speed reduction should be much faster than it is now. Although I plan my slowing down quite a long time in advance, in the last few meters before stopping it is often difficult for me to stop in time on the stop marker even with a reduction to 10 or even 5 of the pressure; I am always obliged to reduce to the maximum even at very low speed to stop the convoy; this does not seem to me very realistic. We should be able to stop the train at 10 of reduction whereas there the braking power is much too weak. This is just my feeling compared to the braking physics of the other Class 101s of the Tees Valley and the NTP. It seems to me that the progressiveness of the braking power is not well calibrated. This is just my feeling compared to the Tees Valley and NTP models.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t driven the 101 in TSW2 often enough to really get to grips with any differences within TSW2 but have had extensive use of it in TSW2020 on both NTP and TVL. So I’m comparing it to that in my head when I’m driving it now on GWE.

    The three car/six car 101 does not appear to be braking as it should in the Legends pack. The brakes don’t appear to apply as well or follow the same curve as I recall, with the brakes getting more efficient as the speed reduces. I’m currently enjoying far too much variety in TSW2 at the moment to take time to test the train fully in all its configurations on every route to see if this is the case. Someone else has done a comparison that shows the difference between TVL and GWE Legends and put that in a post somewhere in the forum and that shows it not to be braking as well. No link, sorry. I think it needs looking at.
     
  5. VION

    VION Active Member

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    Thank you very much for the feedback. Yes I would also like to find the post dealing with the braking curve of the Class 101 on diesel legends compared to the TVL and NTP models. I would love to hear other players opinions on this Diesel Legends Class 101 in regards to the power or braking curve which to me doesn't seem very appropriate.
     
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  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I've driven thousands of miles in the 101 on Trans Pennine and Tees Valley and consider myself quite proficient at stopping in the right place. However, my first outing on the Diesel Legends dlc didn't start well. I made my usual application, the usual distance from my station stop and it became obvious it wasn't going to stop in time. I ended up having to dump the vacuum to stop at all. Whether this is true to life and previous incarnations of the 101 have been incorrect, I have no idea but it's definitely different. Again, I have no idea if a full application on this has the same effect as a full application on the Tees Valley, maybe the intermediate applications are mapped differently. Anyway, I've learnt it's foibles and brake earlier and harder and I manage to stop ok most of the time. The fun will start when I go back to the Tees Valley where I'll be stopping short all the time.
     
  7. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    The brakes are indeed underpowered when compared with the same loco on a different route. Amateur is the word that springs to mind
     
  8. VION

    VION Active Member

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    Ok for all your feedback; but I still think that at low speed this DMU on the Diesel Legends is notably insufficient for the braking system. The brake efficiency curve is really too low.
     
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  9. VION

    VION Active Member

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    I come back to this story of low braking power; I just did two custom scenarios with two different consist of Class 101: one with 2 driving cars and one with 3 cars (two driving cars at each end with a trailer car in the middle). In both cases, the braking is as expected powerful enough to master the station stops quite easily. In the case of six cars (4 driving cars with two trailer cars) it seems to me that I only have the braking power of three cars (two driving cars with one trailer car). This is what I could see by doing two custom scenarios. I have not yet tried a custom scenario with six cars (4 with driving cars and two trailer cars). But the difference is obvious.

    PS: I confirm that the 6 car Class 101 consist in the scenario editor is better equipped with braking power than the one in the timetable. I just tried a custom scenario with 6 cars loaded and well the difference in braking compared to the same consist in the timetable is obvious.

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    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  10. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Not very familiar with the 101, but is there possibly a multi-unit brake setup that needs to happen with the 6-car set?
     
  11. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so because there is a scenario on the Tees Valley where two 3 car sets are combined and driven to Saltburn. They're just coupled up and you're away. Unless the procedure has been simplified for the purposes of the scenario. Maybe there are some valves that need to be opened but haven't been. A simple test would be to apply the brakes in the front cab and go and have a look at the gauge in the rear cab.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  12. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    wouldn't need all this guess work if we had a manual
    cyclecky and Tonto62 you are completely correct - it stops slower on GWS

    101 Stopping Tests 3 car DMU

    Methodology:
    Flat Ground
    Same weather (summer, all sliders at left)
    Same consist (3 car DMU) - I had to uncouple cars in GWS to do this :)
    Same time (as near to 7am as possible with available services)

    Reach the required speed on level ground then coast for 5 seconds then fully apply the brake starting from fully released (in lap position) timing how long to stop in seconds using a stopwatch from moving the handle to showing 0 on the HUD. Brakes applied using Raildriver so move to full appply near enough to instant.

    Tees Valley
    Speed Tees Valley GWS/Diesel Legends
    10mph 6.25 7.6
    30mph 16.03 23.25
    50mph 28.36 42.3
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  13. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    All this is useless until you find a real life braking curve and performance data. Then you’ll find out which version is closer to being true to life.
     
  14. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Need to factor in wear and replacement cycles.
    Suspect regional differences may also play a part.
     
  15. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Dude, did you just completely copy the entire content of my post without attribution to me? That's not cool mate.
     
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  16. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    I dont know how to do that and couldn't spell your second name from memory. if you look further up the posts your name is on
     
  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm finding the 101 a joy to drive, especially on the Raildriver. I don't know how it handles in the real world, but I think the brake "problem" is really just a matter of getting used to it. With practice, I've learned to stop the train at the required spot most of the time now. Authenticity is a question for UK players. Some American locos have "quirky" brakes too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  18. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    It is a joy to drive, it's my absolute favourite train on TSW2 as I used to travel on the real thing sitting behind the driver watching what he did. The issue is that we were "used to it" but it behaves differently under braking on the GW route compared with Trans Pennine and Tees Valley. I'm now used to it on GW as well, it's just a bit odd, you'd expect the same train to behave the same way on any route but there you go. I just assume the fitters on the Western region aren't as good at fixing the brakes as the ones at Newton Heath.
     
  19. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    It not the fact it's right or wrong. It's the fact that it's different to the other 101's on the other routes surley if your driving the Class 101 you shouldn't have to adjust your breaking to the extent you have to just because your driving on the Northern trans peinine or Tees valley line
     
  20. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    All rotes have their unique problems.
    I like being challenged with each loco.
    Like the real drivers you have to know how your machine performs in differing conditions.
    My car certainly doesn't perform to it's manufacturers stats :)
     
  21. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Use the quote and/or reply controls and the forum will do the rest for you.
     
  22. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Crosstie and Tonto62 it could behave differently from line to line, but this one does seem excessive. They could be different build versions or they have some local adjustment that the local foreman or lead driver prefers but I wouldn't expect them to be as different as they are in this game.

    Paul
     
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  23. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    DTG Claim the brakes are fixed in the 101 so I have repeated my 101 Stopping Tests 3 car DMU

    Methodology:
    Flat Ground
    Same weather (summer, all sliders at left)
    Same consist (3 car DMU) - I had to uncouple cars in GWS to do this :)
    Same time (as near to 7am as possible with available services)

    Reach the required speed on level ground then coast for 5 seconds then fully apply the brake starting from fully released (in lap position) timing how long to stop in seconds using a stopwatch from moving the handle to showing 0 on the HUD. Brakes applied using Raildriver so move to full apply near enough to instant.

    Tees Valley
    Speed Tees Valley GWS/Diesel Legends
    10mph 6.25 Was 7.6 After Fix 3.0
    30mph 16.03 Was 23.25 After Fix 12.99
    50mph 28.36 Was 42.3 After Fix 23.16

    Now they're super aggressive! They're not at peel your face off the windscreen aggressive but they're quick! Much better.

    Paul
     
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