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Brighton Mainline (victoria To Brighton) Questions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, May 2, 2021.

  1. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The line via Redhill is the slow lines (not really a branch) so not including it would be really illogical, otherwise all slow services to Three Bridges and Brighton would be pointless (you would have to end the drive where the slow lines divide off, then rejoin the service where they meet up again). Plus the slow lines divide and run parallel literally less than a mile away from the fast lines for about 5 miles in length so it would be really daft not to include them.
     
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  2. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Could 455s be DLC? They're the only other train on the route I can think of apart from 700s. I know they stick to suburban London though so I'm not sure how far south they could go.

    Do you think we're likely to see another release of the 66s with the route? I'm not sure how much freight runs on this line if any, so I don't know how appropriate it would be.
     
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree with the logic, but we’ve seen in other DLC’s that even where lines run parallel to active lines, and start & end next to them, we don’t get them as anything but scenery.

    I think it’s much more likely that DTG will either have stopping services switch onto the fast lines to avoid the branch, before rejoining the slows, or the services will be drivable on either end of the RedHill branch.

    The 3 routes combined will make for a lot of track, alongside all the other DLC that has been released over the last year, this will be the first time we’ve seen 3 DLC’s release together for TSW too, so there will of been time cuts somewhere.

    The next issue DTG will have ran into is the lack of 377’s, they ran out of them in ECW, so either the issue has been resolved by making more, or IRL services will have been cut, the same as with ECW.
     
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  4. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    They will be shooting themselves in the foot by not including the line via Redhill
     
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  5. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that we'll get a verrrry slimmed down timetable, seeing as there's only 74 377/4s.
     
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  6. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Well I really hope they do include the Redhill line otherwise it would be really disappointing to have what would be an incomplete route.

    And to stop them running out of numbers, like I said before just add the Class 377/1 and maybe the Class 377/6 (literally only requires very minor modifications to the Class 377/4 and Class 387/2).

    Class 377/1: add old style headlights to the Class 377/4 and renumber.
    Class 377/6: reskin seat upholstery, add extra intermediate coach to the Class 387/2, remove pantograph and renumber.
    Result: an extra 90 trainsets plus two more varieties.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  7. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    that’s exactly the type of thing we shouldn’t expect, if that was going to happen it would of said as much in the article, and it’s going to be virtually impossible to get DTG to add new subclasses, along with the extra services for them at this point.

    We’ll probably have to wait a while for some solid information about what’s happening with each route and it’s services, the reveal on Tuesday is likely to be the article that was leaked, but in any case I do hope RedHill is there, I just don’t expect it.
     
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  8. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, with the extra passenger load, and the supposed busy timetable, they’ll of had to do something somewhere to reduce the load on PS4 & X1, let alone the issue of stock numbers.
     
  9. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm just sharing my opinion early in the slim hope that DTG might be able to take on board changes to make it the best product it can be. Especially with the Brighton Main line as it's a favourite for a lot of people, including me since it was the first route that got me into train simulators way back with TS2013. I'll be interested to hear what Matt, Sam or Adam have to say in the next stream :)
     
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  10. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think the Redhill branch won’t be included? On HHR, they included both the slow and fast branches between Essen and Bochum.
     
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  11. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I’d love to see the 455 - I think it’s a great looking EMU.
     
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  12. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Ive done a timetable map of the services on the Brighton Mainline. This map does NOT include Thameslink.
    Untitled.jpg
     
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  13. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    We typically only get branches when route length is less than 30/40 miles, look at SEHS, we didn’t even get lower Ebbsfleet.

    There also just isn’t enough trains modelled to run the timetable, there are 71 377’s in game, that works out at not even 3 trains per hour for a 24 hour timetable.

    We’ll see what they’ve done eventually, my point is not to expect extras, especially not additional subclasses.

    If Redhill is there, we probably aren’t getting a real timetable.
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And as I said earlier, if someone at DTG could write the timetable and it worked, they’d be getting head hunted by. Network Rail for the real thing!
     
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  15. taybarker20

    taybarker20 Active Member

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    I hope we get both selhurst and stewards depot
     
  16. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, Southern, Southeastern, Gatwick Express and Thameslink likely have their own licensing team, and TL's happens to be too busy or uniterested to help include the 700 in TSW2. It's the only explanation I can see, otherwise a 700 would have been released long ago for SEHS, or at least would be in planning, as it is a very heavily requested train, and it runs pretty much anywhere near London.
     
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  17. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    DTG hasn’t said it doesn’t have the license. They might, but the 700 is just way down the list of things to do. The amount of work going into Rush Hour alone will have held other projects back.
     
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  18. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    The 455/8s would be a better match for a South London Network type of route. I haven't seen them get anywhere near Croydon, as I think they branch off at Selhurst, so they would only use a very short portion of the route in TSW2, all of which is routinely covered by 377s. The class 700 is a far better match for the route, if they ever do get the licenses for that.
     
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  19. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    I really hope you're right, but I hear them talk about licensing every time the 700 is brought up, so I think TL has not been very nice to them...
     
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  20. taybarker20

    taybarker20 Active Member

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    We can get Geoff marshal to ask Thameslink since there good friends
     
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  21. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    Ok you try and send a whatsapp to Geoff Marshall to ask him for a favour
     
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  22. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Active Member

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    No that's incorrect.
    Govia Thameslink Railway is the ToC for the Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Southern brands. I don't see why Thameslink would have a separate licensing team.
    Southern as a ToC hasn't existed since 2015...


    Southeastern is a separate company so they would have a separate team?
     
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  23. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I was just taking a wild guess.

    In light of this information, I really have no idea how the 700 hasn't made it into the game yet. It fits perfectly in SEHS, London - Brighton and even in ECW as AI. I can see it being added to the roadmap tomorrow along with the 3 routes, but that's just hopeful thinking on my part. The 700 was heavily requested right after SEHS was released, so I hope to see it in the game soon.
     
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  24. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Class 455/8 operates the Victoria/London Bridge to Caterham and Tattenham Corner stopping services along with the Class 377/6, so we could see a DLC that adds an extra service layer between Purley and Victoria calling at all stops on the slow lines.
     
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  25. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend Active Member

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    Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but I've seen this mentioned a few times recently on these forums. Is there some sort of confirmation that NEC is returning? I keep TSW2020 on my hard drive for this route alone, so it would be great to see it make its debut in TSW2.
     
  26. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    How many of these an hour? As I said I've never seen the 455/8s in East Croydon, so probably not that many down there.

    I just hope that DTG put their focus on the Class 700 if they're going to make DLC for this route, as opposed to making the 455/8.
     
  27. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    NEC as seen in TSW2020 isn't coming back this time but according to the leak another section of the NEC is being done (Boston area).
     
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  28. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    NEC Newark Liberty - New Rochelle is NOT coming to TSW2, but NEC Providence - Boston is going to be released for TSW2 this summer, along with the ACS 64 from the old game, according to a leak. The leak is likely to be true, but its veracity will be comfirmed tomorrow.
     
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  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Because DTG decided to make the 465 instead.
     
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  30. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Could Thameslink Services possibly appear with an unbranded Class 387, or maybe a Class 377/387 in a similar livery to that of Thameslink? Or maybe the Thameslink Services can be added, and they just appear with a Southern Class 377? Kinda like SEHS, where the Thameslink services were run by the Class 375/465.
     
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  31. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    It will be NEC, with the ACS-64, but on the far terminus at Boston and upto Providence, along with MBTA commuter services with the F40.

    You could keep TSW2020 installed for the NY section, as long as you don’t mind the 150 mile gap in the route.
     
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  32. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    Oh I forgot about the Thameslink 387s. They certainly wouldn't feel out of place, but the route still feels a bit empty without the 700s
     
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  33. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree. The route would feel empty, and like it is missing something without the Thameslink Class 700's, but at least by adding some of the Thameslink Services with the Class 377/387, the Route would feel a bit more busy, even if it is missing a key Rolling Stock piece.
     
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  34. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Well at least a few years ago the Class 455/8 was a common sight at East Croydon running Tattenham Corner/Caterham services like I said. They may have been displaced by the Class 377/6 & 377/7 to services in the Sutton/West Croydon area but they certainly have operated through East Croydon regularly in the past.

    If we don't see a Class 455/8 or a Class 700 as a DLC, then it could be a Class 421 like with the original TS version near release. Although at this point I think the rolling stock modelers may have their hands full, especially as we still haven't seen anything on the Class 313 for ECW despite it being on the roadmap for over half a year.
     
  35. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Active Member

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    Matt has said that, after a bit of annoyance with the 465 just substituting, that they won’t include all services in the base route again. That way, they can keep some services open for future loco DLCs. For that reason, I don’t think thameslink services would be included at launch, instead waiting to be added with a future (probably class 700) dlc.
     
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  36. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    BML is an insanely busy route, Clapham junction has a train arriving every 30 seconds, obviously that includes many services you wouldn’t see on the BML, but DTG currently have around 70 377’s in Southern Livery, and assuming they make the entire GX fleet of 387’s (27/28) we’ll have a total of around 100 units give or take a couple, so there’s already going to be a need to make additional units since we aren’t getting other 377 subclasses.

    I’m also very curious as to what has been done about performance limits with consoles, I imagine substantial progress must of been made in order to facilitate Rush Hour, but even so there is going to be a lot of traffic even with all 100 units going, before considering TL services.

    There’s also the dispatcher to consider, BML is basically self-contained, trains go upto Brighton, and then backdown, and the primary depots are practically trackside to the line, so it’s not like they can scurry through a portal somewhere, so progress must of been made there.

    There’s also AI services to consider, are we going to see anything come from the 465 & 313 DLC for layers at either end of the line?

    I really hope DTG will deep dive in a Q&A with us on this, there is a lot of technical issues to overcome here, so with that in mind I hope Sam is present on any such discussion.
     
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  37. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Ah, well hopefully we can get that Class 700 with a future DLC.
     
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  38. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Seems like there will be a lot of questions to be answered, especially revolving around the Services and Timetable.
     
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It may be that that will be a key difference between the PS4 and PS5 versions of the route.
     
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  40. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Does the game actually prevent multiple trains having the same number, as I once had two class 483s with the same number in a custom scenario on the IoW? If not then I think it'd be best to just have as many 377s as needed and not worry about multiple units having the same number as you're unlikely to notice them.
     
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  41. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    I've been playing Train Simulator since 2013, and TSW and TSW 2 since they came out respectively. I have not once checked to see if any AI train shares unit number with my train, and even if it did, I probably wouldn't care. I hope unit numbers aren't used as an excuse to limit the timetable.
     
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  42. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Could be something do to with the fact the 700's come in set 8 and 12 car formations so even if DTG were to only make the 8 car version (and almost all of the 700's that run on the Brighton mainline are 12 car in real life) they would have to make 8 individual vehicles as each coach is slightly different inside and out. That's double the amount of work of a 4 car class 465 and a hell of a lot more than just one single loco like the class 20 for Tees Valley for example. They probably would have to charge more than the usual £11.99 which would make selling it prohibitive.
     
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  43. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    In any case the next gen versions should definitely escape the majority of performance issues of PS4/X1, but I think there will be a few unhappy people if DTG release another piece of content that has the same issues as HMA.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  44. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think it would be an issue, but DTG only said that the issue with the missing services on ECW was down to the lack of available stock.

    I for one certainly wouldn’t mind duplicate units, but someone probably would.
     
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  45. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This would contradict their ‘rush hour’ theme entirely and would be highly unrealistic.

    Regarding the limited amount of 377/4s, I reckon they’ll just repeat the numbers in order to have a suitable amount of services.
     
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  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For those above asking about the 700s and why Thameslink don't license. They don't OWN the trains, they only operate them

    A consortium called "Cross London Trains" owns the 700s, with Eversholt administrating and supporting that consortium so it may well be that one of those parties is stopping some IP license so DTG can't make the 700
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  47. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    If I'm being honest, I'd rather them repeat the numbers to have more units to flesh out the timetable
     
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  48. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Creating more 377/4’s by duplicating numbers isn’t entirely accurate, though. It’s creating trains that don’t exist. I bit like the too many Baby Bullets on Pen Corridor.

    DTG might well choose to do this (if it can), but maybe there is more content they didn’t include in the article. Maybe they have slightly tweaked the 377/4 to look like the 377/1 for example, but just not told us yet?
     
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  49. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’d rather this than to have a completely dead line, with only occasional AI trains. Personally, I probably won’t mind repeating 377/4s everywhere. The red GX 387s will add a bit of variety to the line.
     
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  50. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    The jury is still out for me on this.

    We’ve criticised DTG about accuracy in the past, so it seems odd to give a free pass here.
     
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