am slightly confused can anyone tell me that will have to wait til after tsw6 is realsed before we get caltrain back including if we already own it
It'll still work on TSW5 and before if you already own it. It will not be available on TSW6 at release, but DTG should have the unbranded version done shortly after.
The fact that just before they removed the Caltrain content, they had a sale on the locos from that route so you could buy and keep the branded locos, means possible legal issues when they then refuse to allow people to bring that content to the next version. I know there will be an unbranded route and locos soon but that doesn't address the issue.
What legal issues? You purchased a DLC for TSW 5 and no one has taken that away from you. You got what you paid for.
It's worth mentioning that, at least on PC, you can copy your branded TSW 5 Caltrain files into TSW 6 and they work just fine
The license has nothing to do with changing game numbers. The license expired back in February, not because of TSW 6, but because the license was for five years and time was up. Unlike Great Western, Caltrain was uninterested in renewing, probably because with its new FLIRT fleet it wants to erase its diesel history. My, the keyboard lawyers have been busy! Sorry, that's all nonsense. Somebody got wind of the fact the works by Federal agencies are not subject to copyright, by statute, and somehow confused trademark with copyright, and Federal with non-Federal governments. Nope: state and local agencies are not subject to the public domain law, nor does it affect trademark (so, no, "Amtrak" and its logos are not free to use).
I It's almost like this yearly release nonsense is a pointless endeavor since nothing much with the core changes.
With that logic you could also justify removing the entire preserved collection and not having any DLC carry over to the next TSW version.
They had a sale. Because it was about to cease to be available. In the hopes of making it easier for everyone who wanted it to pick it up to keep for older versions of TSW, and picking up sales they had not before. This was entirely within the terms of the licensing agreement with Caltrain. They sold a product for TSW up to 5, on the understanding it will continue to work with those games, but not with TSW6. Where exactly would you imagine this would raise legal issues? They did EVERYTHING entirely within the law.
Exactly. I bought it in that sale, probably wouldn't have done otherwise as it wasn't top of my wishlist. Some people moan about DTG being all about the profit, but then conveniently forget the times a route goes on sale when there’s a push on it (a remaster, an additional loco, that sort of thing).
Technically they havent guaranteed us anything for the next iterations only the current ones. As per DTG Chris on the thread https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/compatible-addons.93405/ Purchasing a Train Sim World 6 add-on comes with no backwards compatibility. If you were to purchase the TSW 6 version of Northern Trans Pennine, it would only be compatible with TSW 6. The amount of entitlements this takes to set up was breaking the platforms we work with. Therefore, from TSW 6 onwards, new purchases will only be forwards compatible where stated. And he followed up with Backwards compatibility was never an advertised feature on store pages. It was an added bonus that unfortunately is no longer feasible. And honestly what do you expect eventually they are going to uograde the engine to UE5 and we will have to start again anyways.
Also what they're describing there is "Retroactive entitlement", not "Backwards compatibility", two different things. The former, what they describe as having changed, is purchasing something for a new platform additionally granting entitlement to use it on the older platform. The latter describes a newer platform being capable of running, or "compatible with", older material originally designed for compatibility with a previous platform. TSW still has a form of Backwards compatibility. Retroactive entitlement is indeed an absolute LOVE to set up the more SKUs are added to your back catalogue, especially when you essentially add an entire individual catalogue's worth every year. I was quite surprised to see them go the extra mile and do it at all, it's exceedingly rare, but I imagine with that many SKUs it was initially seen as a necessary evil to avoid a lot of their customers potentially mispurchasing the newer version of a route in the store, which would not run on their version of the game.
I understand that but where was the advice that it would not be available in future versions of Train Sim World ? If it was alright to own the branded version and play the route after the licence was gone then why is it suddenly not able to be used on TSW6.
People purchase DLC's believing that they will be able to play them on future versions based on previous iterations where DTG states 'Don't worry, all your content comes with you' . If there was no issue playing that content in TSW 5 after the licence was removed then what is the difference using it in TSW 6 and future versions.
Discussing the debranding on Facebook it seems I am not going mad in that some of the stations have lost buildings and some of the lineside seems more bare too. What a farce. DTG should have manned up and told Caltrain where to go, so far as existing owners are concerned (not like they are going to jeopardise any future routes from that outfit). So guess I’m going to have to briefly reinstall TSW5 to grab the three pak files and copy them over to my TSW6 folder.
Because TSW6 is a new game. There was likely a clause in some agreement around the license that it cannot be included in new games released after license expiry.
In progress now. With all but the Caltrain stuff unticked it's about a 10Gb download. The only caveat is to finish off the current run I have in progress as the game file change might cause an issue.
Roger that! Files copied over. Files write protected. Loaded into San Francisco and Caltrain there in all its glory. TSW5 uninstalled again. Raspberry to Caltrain and a semi raspberry to DTG for their timid solution. Highball!
I do the following: untick tsw6 unbranded caltrain stuff from my dlcs install tsw5 just with branded caltrain stuff ticked copy pak files from tsw5 dlc folder to tsw6 dlc folder replace them uninstall tsw5 and it's done when the unbranded caltrain dlcs had not yet been released, the branded ones (from tsw5) already loaded normally, simply by placing them into dlc folder... so I keep asking myself, were they loaded as mods or was there already a reference to those pak files in the exe code? I ask because I tried to use both branded and unbranded versions to make comparisons and was unsuccessful... I have renamed the pak files of the tsw5 branded version by adding a -B at the end of the name e.g.: TS2Prototype-WindowsNoEditor-SanFranSanJose-B.pak then I enable the "allow mods" option in settings and still unsuccessful...
One thing this does flag up though, is the completely unnecessary step of re-downloading our DLC going from TSW5 to 6, on PC at least. The pak file from 5 works perfectly okay in 6. I bet that goes for most legacy content. So absolutely no reason (subject to HD space) why DTG can’t write a simple routine that copies or moves your content pak files across to TSW6. No external download required and if there are any changes can be done via a simple patch.
That seems just a bit of a stretch. For all the grief DTG gets about the issues that make it through their testing, I can only imagine the reaction if they gave something a quick tryout on one DLC, didn't see a problem, and pronounced all 100+ DLCs good to go. My own shot in the dark: It's like running old, no-longer-supported software in new versions of Windows. If it happens to work, great, but you takes your chances. No way can DTG realistically devote the resources to testing all older DLCs in the newest TSW version as-is, or provide tech support to customers doing this.
I don't think y'all quite get it. The license agreement was a contract between Caltrain and DTG. Not with players: none of us were a party to that contract, and none of us are are limited in any way in terms of being able to own branded Caltrain content. The expiration of the license means that DTG, specifically, can no longer sell or otherwise distribute branded Caltrain content after March 2025. Doesn't matter whether the game version is 5. 6. or 2: if the .pak file was sold and downloaded before that date it's fine, but if sold (or given away free) after that date, then DTG would owe Caltrain infringement damages on every single copy. If, as per Vern, they had told Caltrain to shove it and continued to make branded content available - for any version - it could potentially have cost DTG millions. Pulling the pin on a grenade and swallowing it is not "manning up" _______________________ I note, as an aside, that DTG could very very easily have tweaked the TSW 6 code to make older versions of SFJ unplayable, but notably chose not to do so. What players do with files they have already downloaded is up to them.
One thing to note with the method of copying over your TSW5 version of the files is that if you ever do a verify game files in Steam it finds that those three files (Route, Baby Bullet and MP15) are incorrect and redownloads the TSW6 versions again so you need to copy the TSW5 versions back again. Not exactly something we do all the time but worth remembering. I've personally just copied those three files into a folder in my cloud drive so as and when needed at any point in the future I just copy them back from there without needing to re-install TSW5 each time.
I've backed them up and write protected the files in the DLC folder too (though not to say Steam doesn't have a back door way round that).
I've taken that precaution too, but the first line of defense is simply to make those three files read-only
Does making the files read only cause any issues when doing a verify game files though or does Steam just ignore them?
Not to mention that showing a willingness to openly disrespect one of their licensors would harm any and all present and future relations with everyone else, and for a sim whose bread and butter is licensing real railroads, that would be goodbye.
Despite the outcome of all of this, the fact that the CalTrain licensing issue wasn't a wake-up call for DTG to literally stop making Train Sim World a yearly release by selling it under the guise it's a "new game" is just baffling. I'm glad DTG wisened up and figured out that literally nobody in their right mind is going to keep an older version of a game installed for literally ONE DLC to play and decided to work around it by making it unbranded so it can be essentially ported over to the next version of TSW. We already have to do it for one route (NEC: NY, which will be irrelevant when the new version comes out), we're not gonna do it again.
That really doesn't follow. The license ended and Caltrain stuff was pulled in March, and would have been pulled if TSW 6 had never happened, or been released as "TSW 5 Upgrade" or whatever. Five years, regardless of DTG's release policies.
I don't think that's true. If DTG had simply updated/patched TSW5 and released the three new routes either separately or as a Rush Hour type bundle, those of us who already owned the Peninsula Corridor route and stock would still have them. No-one could have purchased them after the license expired of course, but at least a large plurality of us would have them forever, including those who got them in the giveaway. But no, DTG felt compelled to launch an entirely new game and scuttled the Caltrain ship. To me, giving away the unbranded dlc's is an admission that they messed us up. I won't even mention the chaos caused to Epic players.
None of that happened though. The license isn't to "TSW"... that's not a legal company. The license was to "DTG" and expired. That's why they're now non-labeled. Had nothing to do with the change of game numbers. They had to stop selling the Caltrain logo regardless after 5 years, and you do have it in game still, unmarked. The whole mania about the yearly update is weird considering how many other games do the same thing (like sports games for example) and it's no big deal. it has no real impact on the game either except that you have to spend a few hours downloading once a year. In return, they make a lot of money from new players by changing a single number and "tricking" it to the top of the "new release" sections of Steam, Xbox and Playstation. The amount of angst over this is out of all proportion.
A few days, also the main difference between sports games and tsw is the fact the teams actually change with new players each year so there’s actually a reason to do it (for licensing) tsw on the other hand could literally do a update and wouldn’t affect anything this is shown by rush hour in tsw 2, also to add you have to be insane to think it’s reasonable to download over 100 addons each year for such a small amount of new content. like if they added something properly big then it would be justified but that’s not the case this time
The license was only for so many years, regardless of whether there would be a new TSW or not. Otherwise, DTG would've had to license Caltrain for every TSW released since they made the DLC.
You may or may not remember, but Rush Hour migrated to a new engine, and ALL the DLC had to be ported over. Under similar circumstances, no port of SFSJ with branding could have been made and distributed without being in violation.
Agree to disagree. You're now talking simply personal preference. There's a lot of games that require constant downloads, and it was exceedingly simple to just do it in the background on Steam for me. Zero downtime at all. I understand you disagree on what a "hassle" it is, but that's my whole point. It's just a personal preference, not an insurmountable obstacle as it's made out to be by some of our overly theatrical friends. Easily worth it to get new players every year with the new release to keep the game from folding from lack of interest. As another benefit, the yearly relaunch gives a nice "bundle" of routes that makes it worth it for that alone. I see the cost-benefit tradeoff as more than fair.
Rush hour packs would just be better for both sides anyways that’s the thing most pc players will understand the pain of having limited download speeds, like on steam I get 200 mbs per second but on Xbox it’s normally around 60 mbs to on a rare occasion 80 to 90 mbs per second, some of us have worse than that I wouldn’t complain as much if we had access to the 5 day early access to download our older addons but we never get that for some reason probably both DTG and Microsoft btw I paid for the deluxe version
More Major U.S. Retailers Pulling Xbox Console Stock https://gamerant.com/xbox-target-walmart-pulling-console-stock-rumor-inventory-clearance/ New console incoming?
Xbox is just dying, but then MS aren't helping the situation by putting xbox stuff on every platform under the sun and then massively increasing game pass prices for no actual reason
The only reason they still have gamepass subscribers is because they locked most of their multiplayer content behind having to be a subscriber to enable that function on multiplayer games. Shady doesn't begin to describe their business model.
Well, to be fair, in discussions like this I have to remember to check my gigabit Internet privilege. Many users have comparatively slow connections and probably do have a legit complaint. I remember dialup......
