Interesting thread, we see similar requests pop up regularly for DTG to slow down the machine, never going to happen though unfortunately as long as the money just keeps rolling in. Why change a good thing? Any change that threatens this business model and the Focus overlords would be pushing for cost-cutting measures which nobody wants. DLC will never get retroactively fixed unless there is an immediate short term business case to do so. Taking the time to make releases less buggy and provide a more rounded and better thought out product will eat directly into short term benefit for shareholders. And therein lies the cold reality we have to live with - TSW is a victim of its own success. There’s just no incentive to change the way things work right now. This software really needs a massive overhaul in the next few years, the structure of the game is broken from the ground up, with every route being effectively like a separate game. Locomotives and rolling stock need to be brought into the core of the simulation so we don’t end up with multiple versions of identical items like we have now, and incremental improvements to them can be more easily and efficiently rolled out which benefit old and new routes.
I would say it's the opposite. People here have been speculating they might be struggling financially a bit for quite a while now. I wouldn't say they are on the verge on bankrupcy, but I guess business is not booming either. Due to this, they don't have the resources to really take their time and polish their releases. Instead they rush everything out as quickly as they can to get sales. But this is a slow death spiral, because the more you rush the product, the worse it gets and less sales it will generate. So for your next cycle you have less resources once again, you cut curners again, release a half-baked product once again... Of course, this is just speculation. But for every release they keep saying "we wanted to do this and that as well, but ran out of time". And they (and people who are protective of them) keep saying they can't stop pumping out add-ons because they need the money stream. Interestingly other developers with successful titles have the freedom to not pump out cash grab DLCs and instead fix and improv their games - just look as Tranport Fever 2 for example, getting updated for free for years now, without any additional charges. Why? Because the original game was good, therefore popular and they have the funds, I assume. But if you keep releasing bare minimum quality products, your sales will be low and you can't grow. They need to take a step back, invest a bit more in making quality releases, then I do believe better sales would be forming.
How would you call yourself then seeing any point of critic as devil's work and only want to see the world through rosa-red glasses? Fanboy, Defender, Spokesman, Ambassador, Shareholder, CEO, Troll? Choice is yours to select, but after all you will say this is not a reasonable behavior you show here, even if you would love the franchise to the bottom of your heart. I like the game myself as well, maybe even more than you, to have the vision to make it a better one. According to your own words, I shall be a Ultra-Fanboy then or what? I actually ask myself whether you even get a financial benefit from any party involved to provide your shiny world philosophy to promote the game as flawless to unknown. Very suspicious in my eyes. But I know better ways to promote the game, even if that were true. Thank you also for proving my points again for being completely ignorant. And last but not least, I wonder why a multimillionaire has nothing better to do than stoping people from raising their complaints about a product in a dedicated thread for it. Noone invited you or forced you to stay in here, so what is your problem with it? Sharing your own opinion is okay, but not manipulating the one from others. And in fact, you are the person in here with the attitude you insult me to have with that. So no points for you. Before telling anyone else to make a mental break I rather would look in the mirror and check whether I am not the someone who is inside one of these for too long already. And suppose what you said is true, swagging is really a bad attitude. Just giving money to a charity, does not wash away one's sins and make you holy. I'd rather be homeless eating baked potatoes than being rich and lose all my priviliges and understandings for what is good and what is evil in this world.
Yes, for sure. They have built themselves a solid base and being in Early Access they may end up with a few years of roadmaps ahead to get things where they'd like to be for a full release. I personally have just enjoyed it from the sidelines watching streams and videos, so it's an easy wait and see approach for me.
And they are fixing bugs just not fast enough for your impossible standards. Name one game with no bugs released this year.
So it's our fault to expect issues that have lasted months to be fixed? It's the customers fault for not expecting a update to break something else? We have impossible standards for wanting improvements despite giving them our money? Our standards for expecting long lasting issues to be fixed is too high? Class 377/4 rear door remains open and hasn't been fixed since tsw2. We have passengers shooting up into the air on some routes. On the LIRR, there are passengers at Garden City that walk on to the tracks on the opposite platform to board the train. We also have passengers that shrink and clip through the seats inside the M7. This has also been an issue since tsw3. Class 385 sounds have not been improved despite being told that Rivet were working on this months ago and a modder released out with a mod that drastically improved the sounds. That route came out on January 26th, 2023. It's been 10 months. It's not unreasonable for instance to expect the sounds of the 385 to have been improved by now. This is not a game in Early Access. This sound mod came out on February 18th, 2023. Nearly a month after the route released. It's been 9 months since it was released New York Trenton has issues such as stuttering, low framerate, no passengers at stations, having to walk across the tracks to get to another platform at Newark Penn because the stairs aren't modeled. Clipping on station platforms at New York Penn Station and honestly I can go on and on but I would be here forever. The scoring system doesn't work properly as advertised. We can't share the content made in the editor. While yes it is in beta, having the ability to cook content is a basic function in any editor. We have updates that break something else in the game and just because this happens in other games, doesn't justify DTG's actions. This is the only game I play where this is mostly a problem. Look I'm not expecting a bug free game. The issue is that there are way too many issues that just keep on happening and they don't get resolved. Some of the issues I've listed and that have been reported have been in the game for years and as customers who have paid a decent amount of money, it is normal to expect bugs as old as 2 years to have been sorted by now. Like I said before and I will say it again, if you enjoy the game that is fine. If you don't mind the issues, that is fine. Nobody is here telling anyone not to enjoy the game. You come in this thread judging those that just gave their thoughts to the OP's post in an ridiculous manner by essentially telling people to put up or shut up and telling people to have a mental break because apparently, wanting the game to be better means that we are bitter and full of rage. We all want the game to be better. You saying ridiculous things and not being constructive isn't doing anything but getting yourself called out for your takes. Perhaps it is you that need to take a look in the mirror and take a break from the forum if you think that the people responding in this thread that have constructive criticism are just miserable and not wanting you to enjoy the game.
Care to share with the class your proof on these bug fixes, what they are working on, and when we can expect them? Since you seem to act like you have all the answers.
Sure they will come in the following weeks, months, years. Not all bug fixes take 5 mins to fix or others a tick of a box. If you were a progammer you would understand its like building a domino track. If you move one domino you risk knocking a bunch over. So what would seem as a qyick fix tobus playing the game requires many other little fixes along with that. And I did not say all I responded to the one user in particular who bangs his head against the keyboard until there are bruises. But you know I'm passionate about the game that I support too. I just don't suggest completley irrational thinking to stop producing content which is what this thread was about. No money means no staff = no fixes. I love that most people in here say they are passionate about the game yet want to see DTG go bankrupt. Because if they don't make sales that is what will happen. Is it a perfect game no, but expecting all bugs to be fixed is an impossible feat and you will be waiting until your deathbed before that will ever happen. However for us that enjoy the game and used to get valuable information from the forums no longer can because of all the negativity that is mostly repeated over and over again. A new player reading the forums must wonder why most even play the game with the toxic atmosphere. You just can't please anyone nowadays. Go back through the forums for the last 2 years and read how many times someone started a thread that suggested they take a break and just make fixes. It has been answeresd to death. I'm just waiting for the 3rd annual open letter to DTG to start up. Why not come up with something new a novel instead of just rehashing old threads. Also your right I will be taking a break as always I only look at forums when a new DLC comes out to get info on it. Then I leave until the next DLC. So happily I won't be back until after the New Year. At least people like StrikeEagle, Crosstie, Oldvern and these long timers actually give knowledgeable arguments and complaints. Until the enjoy playing TSW like I will be.
But apparently, someone would argue by this logic, that DTG would go bankrupt..... I wonder how games like SimRail (which is a early access game) and American Truck Simulator release free content/updates, not rushing content and somehow have higher player numbers on Steam without losing money or going bankrupt.
Some of the issues people bring up are cosmetic and some can look past. I think what really gets into people's head is the time wasted in attempting to complete certain routes. I've sat down to complete one specific run a couple of times and after an hour you literally hit a wall and the scenario ends. First time, frustrating. Second time, even more so as I thought perhaps I did something wrong on the first run. Third time.. well shame on me for not having writen down that that one was broken and could never be completed. And there are others like that out there that suffer red light issues. These kinds of bugs can make people angry at a game as instead of a sense of accomplishment, or a sense of learning if you failed and did something wrong on your own, you're left with a sense of anger at the devs for not testing their game. In my case, my version of the game has become abandonware and will never be fixed. I've gotten beyond the anger stage at this game. For me it's just become a running joke seeing the same issues brought up again and again by new and old players. Not that I'm laughing at other players, but at the overall farce that DTG has created. I still happily play TSW2 here and there, and cross my fingers every time that I'm not picking a run that will result in me wasting X number of minutes or hours due to poorly tested software.
Either A. They built a better game and were able to bank a lot of money allowing them to continuously improve their core game for free without running for a handout from a publisher or B. They have an ongoing supply of developers to pick up the torch for those sadly fallen when they succumbed to extreme hunger. I guess we'll never know
We’ve been here before with Mr Potato. He was spouting the same sort of nonsense only a few months ago about something else, and when he was called out on it he started crying like a baby and, without even the merest hint of irony, accused me of bullying (exactly as he has done above). He also started making threats about self-harm. In my eyes he’s clearly the embodiment of an internet troll with a victim mentality, someone who tries to illicit a reaction by saying things that are bang out of order and when he gets what he’s after starts crying ‘bully’. Add him to your ignore list, it’s just not worth the effort. DTG have got away with this way of operating for so long because they’ve had an effective monopoly in their chosen market, there have been other train games but nothing anything like good enough. Capitalism works at its best when there is healthy competition as it drives standards and innovation, and that competition now exists in the form of SimRail. Although it’s in early access it’s already clearly having a significant impact. When it comes to consoles it will be a game-changer. DTG would be fools to dismiss it as no threat & TSW will sink or swim based on the direction they go next. The cosy status quo will no longer be a viable option.
There is no need to clean the house here. All what happened so far is only a matter of free speech, plus some reactions to irrelevant thoughts. But to be honest, I wouldn't wonder if the thread gets closed soon also because of hindering people to do so, either.
I didn't have much experience with MSFS yet. Just know that it exists and a few videos I encountered on YouTube really do impress me much. The graphical but also functional quality seems astonishing. I saw some AI fully looking and behaving like humans and drive and get the baggage into airplanes. From what I can see so far, not to even closely relate or compare to TSW. With the current Steam Autumn Sale, I'll maybe will give it a go. It's only a bit more than one full price TSW DLC now, and for what I see I could get with it, it definitely looks like a good or better deal to invest in some half-baked DLCs here.
MSFS is good but like TSW seems very focused on the modern era. Not installed currently due to lack of interest and its massive HD footprint, but I keep FSX around as despite the tussle to get it running on modern(ish) PC’s there is loads of content including the veteran jetliners like DC10, L1011, 727, Level D 767 etc. which I really enjoy flying.
I've been flying the MD-11 lately in MSFS, pretty fun so far. The DC-6, and Constellation are also really good. The Hindenberg is coming out soon lol.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are struggling financially. A lack of effort = fewer sales = a need to try and raise cash = a lack of effort = even fewer sales. An urgent change in strategy is needed I think.
It is very annoying that passengers have been missing on NY-Trenton for months. I know that DTG is not EA or UBI SOFT, but how can they leave so many bugs that other companies can fix well within 2 weeks? Perhaps there are only three employees? Right now this situation is allowed because there are no competitors in the same market, but if new competitors appear, it will be a big threat to them. Basically I like DTG train sims and will continue to support them. I understand that they have to keep selling new DLC because these games are a fairly niche market but if they put a little more effort into fixing bugs, it would be more wonderful and better received, and that would ultimately lead to more sales. I hope they realize that.
Do agree that bugs need to get fixed before releasing more dlc with more bugs to go on top of some bugs not being fixed like the London Brighton 377 back door being open and the Köln-Aachen 44 talent having unplayable services from Aachen via the timetable
I personally think that continues support by buying the DLC is wrong approach and showing company that releasing half finished product is acceptable by client. If the sales are on good level, why they should bother and fix everything along the way, since the end user will buy it ? But when the sales would drastically go down, then they would start doing something in order to get the client again.
Given that they are a UK limited company, their financial reports are public on gov.uk. I'm no expert in reading these documents, but it doesn't seem like they are doing bad - in fact, it seems to say that revenue is up.
I think the problem is that they are not struggling and be in that chain enough, yet. Sales probably seem to be pretty well of both TSW4 and the newer DLCs of TSW3/4 still despite the big negative feedback for the last months. It worked for years, yes, and still seems to work yet, yes. But that doesn't mean it will and have to go on in this way for forever in the future. The big break point will be when sales come into a range where the costs for maintaining the company as it plus the development of making these DLCs does not balance the costs or bring in enough profit anymore. When this point finally has been reached, and as it seems only really then, Focus/DTG maybe will need to decide whether a different strategy might be the better one to go to not only bring better profits but maybe even keep the business alive. Until then and enough people still are willing to pay for their content regardless of its quality, they will continue to release and overcharge new core game iterations and DLCs which lack of level of detail, functionality and contain so many bugs still. Our voices clearly have no force to change the situation. This is clearly proven since months and countless threads complaing about it. We, as the costumers and long term fan base, only have one tool left to react to that: Not pumping our money always and always again into them for content what it's literally not worth it. There are so many high detailed games out there which are sold for a price way less than a mediocre or low-level TSW DLC. There is really no need to do so. Just 30 minutes in any distributor platform will show you at least 2 or 3 games which awake your interest and can make you happy for long long time. It's really at the moment for each of us to decide whether it's worth to invest in a game developer anymore, which does not seem to care about the problems we have or the things we want/or need for making TSW the immersive and outstanding game we want it to be. I remember the sentence of one person who was close to me and died in 2019: Disappointments are disclosed illusions (actually works better in german because both words relatve to the same word). And it's better to make a final cut and have a final disappointment to living in an endless illusion, which in this case, also has a high potential to make the ones who are not that financially gifted for selling each and every DLC, bankrupt or broke.
This isn't just TSW, it includes other products. That said, much of the text in that document eludes to them doubling down on producing DLC.
Against the Storm. Not released yet, but there is 0 bugs in prerelease version. Funboys need to understand that the people which hates this game aren't on this forum. Instead there is a plenty of peoples who wanna sees this game much better then it is atm. Cause many was promised and almost nothing was implemented(not only a bugfixes).
Interesting read. Looks like this covers up to the initial period of TSW3 (up to March 2023) and you'll have to wait for next year to see the TSW4 effect. Year over year revenues are a little up and users are slightly down. At the very least you can read that even with a tiny (in global gaming terms) population of 244,000 shovelware is high profit margins. If DTG doesn't live in the aggressive shareholder environment of "every quarter must not just be profitable, but exceed last quarter's profits" then they'll do fine meandering along. I mean a declining user base that spends more isn't exactly a bad thing. LOL so much for the "vote with your wallet" crowd after TSW3 came out. I'm clearly in the minority there.
Compared to other famous simulator works It can be said that the response to bugs is slow. I always wonder why they don't check it before it's completed. We're paying for it, so we'll point it out. I think the final result is that it turns out to be a good piece of work.
I agree. It definitely feels like DTG is shifting their focus to children who have no concept whatsoever of quality or accuracy or complexity and will just see a shiny new route with slick trailers and ask for their parents to buy it. I feel like every other week there's a post on the TSW Reddit from a parent asking for help because they know nothing about trains, but they bought their 5 year old TSW because he likes trains, and it's too complex for the child and now the parent is angry. Accordingly, we're seeing more and more features removed. Remember when the tutorials had us start trains from cold and dark? Remember when we had manuals? Remember when you had to properly set up the brakes and multiple unit controls in order to successfully run a timetable service? Remember the unforgiving stopping distances? The thing about simulators is that to one degree or another, they will always be too complex for children below a certain age. Sims cater to people who want more in-depth complexity and true-to-life realism than an arcade game. You can't keep compromising and removing gameplay elements or simplifying the physics because some toddlers can't set up DP or properly maneuver an 80 car train down a 2% grade in a thunderstorm. Then it's not a sim. It's an arcade game. I'm guessing sadly that they realize that kids on consoles with their parents credit card will buy as much content as diehard simulation players without any of the complaints and ultimately, with less work trying to make everything accurate. I'm not saying TSW should be inaccessible, but it feels like longstanding players are being abandoned for an endless stream of cash grabs.
I do miss Sam. Not only did he call attention to issues in content and answer questions directly without legal-speak that neither confirms nor denies things, but he knew trains and could discuss features quite deeply and compare them to the real life counterparts. All love to JD and Jamie and all the other members of the community team. I have no ill will toward any of them and acknowledge that they do their best in engaging the community. However, the fact that they do not have as much background knowledge about trains, their operations, and the histories of different routes and types of trains means there is so much less depth in preview streams. It also means they are less likely to point out when a feature is not working how it should, when something about a route or station or train is not accurate, and ends up resulting in streams with fawning praise and wonderment over things that--in the grand scheme of both the game itself and railroading in general--are really not that remarkable.
Aren't the preview streams more about fawning over a random pink object rather than the routes themselves these days? The viewer numbers are so low it looks like most detractors have already moved on from wasting their time having their questions ignored.
Yeah the previews used to be informative, learning about the trains, the route, the history...not so much now. Now it's just 20 repeats of "Chat wants to hear the horn", "look at this [item that's some obscure reference and adds almost nothing to the experience of driving a train]", and the same softball questions asked and answered a million times while the critiques and more technical questions are conveniently not addressed.
Tsw is just right for me personally. I don't like it being too hard where I am given no guidance on how to operate a train which is why I don't play simrail or zusi. And I don't want too easy where there are no physics. Sometimes I don't like waiting like 20 minutes waiting for brakes to charge up. Ideally, there should be an option between realism and arcadey to please everyone. There are other simulators out there for hardcore players.
This is what I like about Flight Simulator and all the options that go from holding your hand to letting you learn the full-on depth of real flying and navigation methods if you wish.
I would say I am happy that is no longer a thing. Realistically most of these things would already be set when start your service, considering most of the services start with the consist already assemlbed, wating on the platform, ready to go. Like when on Sherman Hill initially you had to wait 10 minutes to release the brake, which made no sense, because why would the system be completely empty when you take over as you start your service? But for the rest of your points, I agree.
I don’t watch the streams anymore, they are pretty pointless. When Sam was on them, he would pick up on things that didn’t seem right and bring that to the attention of whoever else was in there . They are just a promotional tool now . I used to look at them for information and things like How to switch on safety systems etc , but now Matt just clicks on his keyboard stand that’s that . Not at all useful for console players and more often than not, no manual. A couple of months ago I went on a steam to find how to turn on the safety system and all it was was click click bang. There definitely seems a lack of thought for us players . I’m sure a couple of years ago , we were respected more by DTG . Take this thread for example. Three pages of valid points and no reply from any of them . As for the roadmap .. I used to look forward to them but now they are just but let’s be honest they are nothing more than a glorified advert for new routes . And just to say that I wholeheartedly agree with the OP and the majority of this thread , but not holding my breath
Honestly I also miss the way Sam was with the community and being up front and honest. I don't feel like we've had that since he left and I'd imagine that this could be a big reason as to why he left? I wonder if its a direction that DTG have taken? And are kind of in a "Our way is best" kind of mentality? Because even the whole list of standard features we were asked about still hasn't really come about? I feel like dlc is still missing odds and ends and that there isn't really any consistency?
Sam was a great stream host, who although didn’t have a deep knowledge of railways, made up for it with charisma and his no-BS presence. He is dearly missed.
I agree. The roadmap stream nowdays I entirely pointless. They say exactly what is already written in the roadmap articles. Previously the streams provided some more insight, showed work in progress screenshots, etc. But now if we have any of that, then it is provided in the article (which I am thankful for), so the roadmap stream itself does not provide anything extra.
Well well well. Had a bit of spare time to die inside tonight so I thought I'd have a review of the the most positive thread on the forum and by golly it didn't disappoint. So simrails still doing the round along with eurotruck simulator and it's free dlc, lovely little narrative which remains amiss to different company , different operating structures etc being the likely reason dlcs are paid. Weird concept these days in the UK being expected to pay for anything eh. I trundled on through positivity Corner to the volume of dlc. This should be known as the "damned if they do, damned if they dont" route counter . And then eventually the "half finished route" popped up in the usual half baked cake post. Now whilst there's never any smoke without fire I can't believe the enjoyment derived here. Surely some of you can step away from this witchunt and realise you're not conscripted, equally, im confident that nearly all of you are here because you love trains. Think about that moment you saw your first "oh wow" moment, when you first got your 6000t freight train moving and why you're here. Feedback is vital but this has just become clucking for the sake of noise. I appreciate I'll gaslight a few and I welcome the flames, but before you do, consider this. I'm here for the trains, the livestreams, the community too. I'm here to see what's next, I'm here to share my feedback good and bad and I'm here because for the niggles there are, I still get a lot back from every single developer who has put blood and tears bringing this to us. There's a better way of doing this post.
And, again, no disrespect to JD or Jamie, who after all have no control over how long ago they were born, but Sam also had the advantage of being a Gentleman of a Certain Age: to wit, he had very few fornications left to give and so generally didn't. He said what was on his mind.
Oh do tell? Answer me this: Is New York Trenton working as it should? Is there graphical issues with the sim ( you should answer yes to this as I’ve seen many of your posts regarding inis and trying to get the game performant) Is some of the dlc still not functioning? Have the promised patches been delivered on various routes from dtg, skyhook and rivet? Have certain dlcs been left to rust? If you answer honestly to all those you’ll get the reason why this thread was created.
I remember the days when there were separate preview streams for PC and each console. Too embarrassing these days to show the console ports so it's mega PC all the way
And here’s another. I last played Luzern route almost a year ago and the headlights do not work on the train. I just loaded up an early morning route in November and I still don’t have headlights.
DTG also have a somewhat robust third party developer team, so release less frequent higher quality routes, prioritise ironing out bugs, it’s a win win and it retains players
You’re seemingly pro or anti-DTG / TSW depending on which way the wind blows. Be careful that chip on your shoulder doesn’t give you backache.
