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Cane Creek Preview

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Challenger3985, Jun 25, 2021.

  1. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    So, as I did with the Clinchfield preview stream, I will also be making this thread for the Cane Creek preview stream as well. Again, any thoughts or opinions on this route are welcomed here.

    To summarize what this branch line will include:

    -Full 35.8 miles (57.6 km) from Brendel to Potash, with an extra 5 miles (8 km) on Utah's Main Line to Thompson (totaling up to at least 40 miles/64 km in length)
    -2 Locos in UP Liveries, the AC4400CW and the SD40-2 (same, but different models)
    -4 Rolling Stocks: 2 Cover Hoppers (ACF Centerflow and, new, PS-2CD 4570), a Tanker, and a 2-bay open hopper (used for the "Dirty Dirt" Train, instead of Uranium)
    -and 12 Scenarios (Some in long parts, others are short with free roam)


    And in addition, a representative from Skyhook will be answering questions from the suggestion thread that was made 2 weeks ago for last week's stream, which was canceled due to issues (no guarantees that all the questions from there will be answered, as well as during the stream).

    Hopefully, this will be a well worth stream to watch for this route. If not, well hopefully, you've enjoyed watching it no matter what. (streamed on a PS4 Pro)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  2. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but for me this one will be a Maybe Later In A Sale type of route. Maybe.
    The driving experience honestly looks like a major snooze-fest, and it seems to be just a showcase for the albeit impressive scenery. This, despite DTG demoing it on a PS4 Pro, the graphics of which looked bladdy awful. I used to run TSW2020 on a Pro and I don’t remember it looking anywhere near as bad as that; it’s as if it’s stuck in Base-PS4 mode!
     
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  3. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    So far on the route, it's not bad:
    -Sweet scenery
    -2 variant liveries for the AC44 (Clean/Weathered)
    -Nice looking new Cover Hopper
    -Services in Timetable are severed into parts (like Clinchfield)
    -Few Free Roam Scenarios (on some areas)

    While it's disappointing that the Uranium train will only have open hoppers. But since there's no implementation on loading containers or a spine car (yet, make it happen), guess improvising that train will have to do for now. And I'm not surprised if the engine sounds would be reused either. Goes to show how "limited" the resources can be for US locos nowadays (pandemic or not, no offense).

    But other than that, can't wait for the next stream to see more of this route (I'm still thinking about getting it on Day 1. But I'll see how the next stream goes before thinking second thoughts on this)
     
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  4. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    The route has beautifully looking distant scenery, top-notch there, but it definitely lacks in more areas than expected (sounds being one such area of course). The scenery close to tracks seems extremely empty. Yes, it's basically a desert, but it wouldn't be that empty.
    upload_2021-6-25_23-52-12.png
    [​IMG]
    There are still bushes, grass and stuff close to tracks, here it only seems like textures (not very good either) and something further in the distance. It might be just me, but most of the time the closest 5 meters to the track looked pretty bad.
    upload_2021-6-25_23-55-15.png
    The new ribbed hopper looks cool, but someone probably forgot to randomise numbering on them as both of those shown on stream were "01234".
    upload_2021-6-25_23-57-3.png
    There are also still problems with liveries on both locos (AC - flag over stripe, reflex stripes on the sides, candy corn exhaust, rear headlight, etc., SD40 - the UP still overlaps the stripe, less than before, but it's still there).

    The sounds have been mentioned for years and they're still fine with pushing out content with no upgrade to them. It is especially crazy considering we've heard the same loco yesterday in a much older game sound so much better. THIS is supposed to be the next step in rail simulation, why is it getting beaten by its ancient brother?
    (compare today stream 1:24:00 to yesterday Tehachapi 12:30 - both the same locos, both notch 5, the difference is insane)

    I was very interested in this route and I've been on the Utah Main Line myself, early screenshots of the whole route seemed amazing, but the locos and many other issues really hold it back for me. In this state... probably a winter sale... something like 30 % off.
     
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  5. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    There are so many things to like about this route; what a spectacular drive!

    However, I must admit to some frustration over hearing the same SPG horns again. I understand that getting authentic recordings has been difficult recently, but there are some decent horn NA horn sounds already in the game on PC and Oakville. Why not reuse those?

    Also, the SPG horn sounds immensely better with some reverberation at the end which would be quite appropriate in the canyons of Cane Creek. This reverberation is already in the game; just park yourself under any bridge in SPG and listen to the horn as it approaches. It sounds much better and more plausible. I think it would be an immense improvement to make this under the bridge reverberation the default sound.

    I am one of the last folks here to jump on the complaint bandwagon and this route has so much going for it. However, it seems to me that DTG just doesn't quite understand how important the horn is in North America; it is the signature of railroading. It is what we hear late at night and virtually the first thing anyone thinks of when you mention trains. It is the backbone of our railroading lore, past and present.

    This is a game and I recognize the imperfections inherent in simulation. Yet, I don't ask for perfection, just some progress. And there are several channels of progress that would seem to be readily available.

    I am grateful for all the enjoyment and stress relief TSW2 has provided for me and I appreciate all the attention to detail that went into making this game possible. I think details like the handrails and door windows are important. However, in my opinion it is truly difficult to get a plausible North American route off the ground without a good horn.
     
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  6. TimTri

    TimTri Active Member

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    I really agree with your comments on the scenery close to the tracks, noticed the same thing while watching the stream. The texture pattern around the rails is very noticeable and repeated every 1-2 meters, and there are no small rocks, bushes, etc at all - just the plain textures.
    I’m honestly really confused by that… the hills surrounding the tracks with all the bushes and little details look really good even though the texture pop-in is extremely noticeable due to the bright & sandy ground.
    Water texture and reflections are a huge step up from earlier routes. The canyons are cool as well. Once you start looking at them a bit longer, it’s actually quite clear they’re comprised of only a handful of rock formation models which are cleverly rotated and mirrored, but the end result looks quite good!
    The very distant canyon scenery pop-in is very noticeable, especially in front of the train. First, there’s just the horizon. Then, a very low-quality mountain shape appears (which ironically looks a lot like the Arosa Line mountains, hopefully people will start to realize they weren’t Rivet’s fault and just an engine limitation). This model is subsequently replaced by more and more detailed canyon shapes.

    Overall, I was never planning on buying this route anyways since I’m not a freight player. But it was still nice to analyze the environment!
     
  7. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    We have seen the PS4 version today, and it looks really good if you think about the hardware it is running on.
    Can't wait to see the PC version.
     
  8. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I was planning on buying this route, but after hearing the SPG sounds again, I will be skipping this one. It's a shame that they could not get new sounds, especially when third parties have offered them help with sounds.
     
  9. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I agree about it probably being a snooze fest, like somebody said doing 25mph from nowhere to nowhere does not excite me (even though others will find it great), despite it looking pretty damn fantastic. But then again I find myself nodding off whatever route I play on TSW2 these days! Still find myself playing TS20xx more because it feels more satisfying to play, is it just me?
     
  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a route that really needs something to do, if it's going to appeal. i.e. hauling all those loads at low speed needs to be part of a dynamic campaign, or something. Run 8 gets the industry "feel" right, as do the missions and tasks you get offered in Snowrunner. Often the latter involves grinding up the same muddy slope at 10 MPH (if you're lucky) but never gets stale, for some reason. Obviously Saber Games have nailed an element which sadly eludes DTG. They are still largely stuck in the traditional train sim mantra from the early days of building a route from nowhere to nowhere which you drive back and forward with no real purpose a couple of times, then never look at again.
     
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  11. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Thought I revive this for the second preview stream today (just because), but this time it'll be streamed on PC (which may also mean it'll be on the Dev Build as well)

    And one more thing to say beforehand (just to make sure): It's just a branch line, what more did you expect from it.

    Once more, any thoughts or opinions are welcomed here.

    Note: the route will be released on July 8th (Next Week)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  12. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Well I will be buying it at launch. I dare to say that this means alot, since I am not a typical freight guy, I don't like slow speeds and look for variety most of the time.
    But the visual appeal of this route hits so far home, I can not care less about any of the before mentioned.
    This is a scenery setting that I was amazed at ever since I was a child, and it is something that is absolutely far away from where I live (Germany) and thus feels like a completely new world. Always wanted to see these canyons in real life, and had no chance so far - this route will be the perfect compromise for me to experience a different world to mine from the comfort of my home. Highly looking forward to it.

    Also I have not looked at the live streams at all in order to get the absolute first look at everything - though I did look into todays stream shortly. I read that the graphics were not as great as in the pictures on last weeks stream, which seemed to be down to the power of the PS. Just wanted to confirm for myself that graphically it is on the same level as the promotion screenshots on PC - which to me seems to be the case!

    On a seperate side note, this will be my first route purchase since SEHS.

    So to all the folks that wonder who would care for such a route - me for one, even though it would usually tick most of my "avoid" boxes ;)
     
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Now that there has been a stream on PC, I think it’s fair to say that you are all lucky lucky people. It still has that very off-putting wide band of dark brown ground around the track though, which is a shame for everyone, as it spoils the whole look of the route.
     
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  14. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I find it so odd that, what appears to be the most barren area in terms of rocks and foliage is the immediate area around the tracks! Regardless, this week's stream has reassured my confidence in buying Cane Creek. I quite love these types geological landscapes and the rest of it looks phenomenal.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  15. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'll admit from the PC side of the scenery, it looks beautiful than any other routes I've seen so far (even in a snowy environment). I mean sure, textures and other missed details can be avoidable if you don't squint too much on the ground (even on consoles).

    So for me, it's definitely a Day One.
    No matter how much Gameplay there is (or how inaccurate it is either), or how the loco and rolling stock looks and sounds like (which, yes, still needs some work on the inside nonetheless).
    But to me, it's just a UP Freight route in Utah, and that's all I was hoping for in the end. No matter what. (but, hoping to see another UP route, or it's predecessors in the future though, a bit of a long stretch but still)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    The scenery does look great on this route....but for me, its not enough to justify the purchase. There just does not seem to be enough gameplay here to justify the price tag. The route is quite simple (as opposed to Clinchfield's multiple branch lines); single track so no AI sighting. To be fair Clinchfield is mostly single track as well...but there are multiple passing loops along the way where the AI gives way to you and vice versa

    I'll be saving my $ for Rush Hour....I may pick this up later during a sale though if I find myself short on stuff to play.
     
  17. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    After seeing todays stream I am very impressed with how it looks on PC and that frames were very stable. The scenery looks amazing and stunning. I will definitely be buying on day one, and looking forward to enjoying another North American route.

    Sad no discount on day one but that is okay.
     
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  18. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Impressive route, but I will wait until it hits a sale in the future to buy it.
     
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  19. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Posnetek zaslona (149).png

    You can't find any route as gorgeous as this one in TSW, Skyhook has definitely done a fantastic job on the scenery! I'm very happy with how it looks like and can't wait to see it on my own.
    Slow and quiet drives with spectacular scenery seems just the type of gameplay that I love, but I can understand why it's not everyone's favourite. More variety is always welcome in TSW and an obscure branchline like this is definitely something new and fresh.
    There isn't that much to do, but I'm not concerned about the small amount of gameplay at all, as you can always replay services you've already done. To me, that's not much different from playing the same copy/pasted services on other routes anyway

    My only disappointment is the wrong cars for the Moab services, as they would contribute a lot to the uniqueness of the route, but I can understand why they weren't made.

    This will be one of my rare day one purchases, as it's something I want to support.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  20. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Add to the screen above the Londonmidland skybox (mod) and you can literally scream!!!

    londonmidland skye.png londonmidland skye 2.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
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  21. roysto25

    roysto25 Member

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    I find baffling the whining about the limited game play on this route. That is more or less real life for this branch line and I wonder how many players drive the same route over an over, rather than switching to another, contrasting, route. After all, how different is repeatedly driving an HST 35 minutes between Paddington and Reading on a billiard table track?
     
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  22. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    Ok so on the PS4 the route has been dialed down as Matt said, I'm watching the PC preview & it certainly looks better than PS4, Maybe someone can eighten me as to why the textures look fairly basic in places on PS4? My graphical benchmark for PS4 is RDR2 running the RAGE engine, the game looks fantastic on PS4 with great frame rates & so much going on with the detail & things happening in the background! So how come TSW2 obviously not using RAGE & instead using Unreal Engine struggles so much with frame rates on PS4 with moderate to high detail, shadows & track rendering? Is it down to budget? Is it down to not really knowing how to optimise UE? It frustrates me as I know the PS4 is capable of so much more than DTG seem to be able to get out of it.

    This is not a rant btw, I do love TSW & what they have done, I just sometimes feel that what is good could be excellent!
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It‘s probably the fact that compared to something like RDR2, TSW2 has enormous amounts of stuff going on under the hood. Looking pretty and loading in scenery is probably the most resource intensive thing RDR2 needs to do while for TSW, it needs to do that after pretty accuratly simulating the physics of 2 locos and 40 cars (for example). That‘s a lot more physics than RDR2 will ever need to worry about.

    I‘m not a programmer and only have extremely limited (basically zero) experience in coding, so take what I‘m saying with a barrel full of salt, but I‘d imaging all of the simulation aspects are the reasons why visual aspects have to be dialed down a little.
     
  24. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    One massive company with the resources to push out quality over quantity and pay employees without releasing the actual title for almost a decade

    One other company (Dtg) which is the exact opposite with quantity over quality

    Two types of games and companies so its comparing apples to crab-apples essentially

    Until theres competition for this market of game/sim (which consoles literally only have one option) its just the way the cookie crumbles
     
  25. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    You can't really compare RDR2 and TSW2. One is an open world action game the other is a simulator running a highly detailed physics engine simulating in realtime a complex locomotive and its rolling stock. All simulators on PC generally push a system harder than most open world games (eg recent simulators such as MFS2020 will bring a modest PC to its knees)

    Its no surprise at all that TSW2 taxes a console using 8 year old hardware.... it's also worth noting this is why you do not see alot of simulators ported over to the previous gen consoles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  26. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answers :)

    I thought one of the main reasons Sims usually do not appear on consoles is the limited control options with a controller.
     
  27. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    You could pretty easily turn that the other way around as well.

    TSW only ever has to worry about train physics and a relatively limited ammount of scenery alongside the railroad tracks. Simulating the physics of 2 locos and 40 cars? An open world game like RDR2 has to simulate tens of animals and NPC on the screen at one time as well, each requiring their own AI calculations, and scenery that's actually fully detailed through the whole world, not only alongside a set of railroad tracks.

    But as others have said, it's not fair to compare. R* is a much bigger company and they spend many years on their titles, compared to Dovetail, who releases a route every few months. That said, I like the direction things are going now, as I really enjoy Cathcart Circle and I'm especially looking forwards to Cane Creek. I hope it will be as good as I expect it to be.
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Red Dead Redemption 2 took over $300 million, 1600 people (not counting actors) and ten years to make - in all three cases, more than the entire Lord of the Rings movie trilogy. So not exactly comparable.
     
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  29. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    Yes there is this too :D I just think it's quite unfair when people say the PS4 is so last gen & can't handle anything more than basic graphics when clearly it can.
     
  30. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Just to make a note that AAA games like Red Dead 2 took a lot of time and resources to make it work on both PC and consoles to the highest quality as possible (no matter what the required specs are). Whereas Dovetail is still trying to optimized TSW to have "better" quality than it is now (for both the locos and routes), not only for PC but also for both the previous gen (XB1 and PS4) and next gen consoles (PS5 and Series X|S) as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  31. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    I know this would be more PC biased, but it would be better if the coders started converting and enhancing code now for Unreal Engine 5.
    While the graphics/rock formations and most of DTG's scenery in general looks wonderful, imagine gameplay with RTX style lighting and better optimisation for better passenger AI, etc.
    I know some tweaks are coming (maybe in Rush Hour), but it was at the expense of dropping older gen consoles.
    I think it is time to have dedicated platform code so that each can make use of their hardware to the full potential.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021

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