Read every thread with feedback about Rivet by players and then read the glowing review DTG give them for reference. There seems to be difference between what the players are saying and what the developers say... Whatever professional context, or partnership they have (and whether it is sincere or not), it just goes to show you how willingly out of touch DTG are with their player base. Interestingly some of the EP developers have also said they will not be doing enhancements to the same extent for this route... It all speaks for itself.
I think the main reason rivet get away with stuff like this is so dtg have the excuse of saying "at least we're better than them." That may well be the only reason rivet is still pumping away. To take dtg's problems out of the spotlight.
I believe it's because they are sick and tired of being the ones correcting errors and mistakes that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Also, from a personal perspective, these people do this for free and the only ones getting a profit are DTG... I don't think they'd mind if the bog standard unmodified routes held up. But when they are the ones enhancing routes to the standard it should of 'come out of the box' in, I'd imagine it is frustrating.
Funny thing as well, doesn’t take these EP devs who do it for free that long to release a EP pack. Annoyingly i’m on PS5 so don’t get that luxury but is what it is. But shouldn’t these EP devs be the ones on Dovetail’s dev team?
I must admit I've become slightly less interested playing TSW of late, all of my recent purchases seem to be during sales. In the past this would've been day 1 but not now. I think the sim really needs a new major feature, it's crying out for random events/AI delays etc. Even temp speed restrictions would be nice. Anything that can vary each run. Hopefully TSW 6 will be the one for this. Still a great sim, but my interest has waned. Looking forward to the ATS route though, that'll probably be a rare day 1 purchase due to the extra level of detail that they seem to be putting in.
I have a question is the cab accurate to the real TFW class 150 and class 153 depending on the different company's the cabs aren't always the same they do like to change it up abit
Matt mentioned a virtual guard. This would be nice…. I know multiplayer has been discussed many of times on the forums, but with guard mode I think there’s a justification for it now more than ever. Probably would need to be P2P for it to work.
It looks pretty accurate, but I didn’t really take a good look at it. They modelled (I think it’s called) a DAS. it’s a screen that’s suppposed to tell drivers about speed restrictions, when to coast etc it’s about fuel savings. but…. Tfw don’t pay for them so the screens are basically permanently off. They also displayed track mileage.
i've noticed the DAS is only on the class 150 and the 150's were at ScotRail so it makesn sense for it to have a DAS like the GWR edit: they were only at ScotRail in the 80's then got moved i think
Correct. LondonMidland of this parish responded to a question I asked about enhancement packs a few days ago.
Yeah, feel your pain and frustration I'm also on PS5... For the moment being I'm going to concentrate on some of the older routes and the 378 on the Watford DC lines...
It's a lose lose situation, if it sells well they will keep pumping out mediocre slop like this, if it doesn't sell well "Network routes don't sell"
Spot the difference. Admittedly minor issues with 0 compared to the rest…. I can see no westbound Off indicator, a lack of PIS displays and the OLE masts are incorrectly positioned. Again, even I know I’m nitpicking here. But still not the best attention to detail
That's something I have always wondered. Why is the modding community lifting TSW into a better place all the time. I'm sure DTG would say mods are unsupported and don't go through a QA process etc but the speed at which the community works is amazing.
I’ve said earlier in the thread, this isn’t isolated to TSW. Bethesda had a reputation for releasing buggy messes, propped up by a strong modding community. Eventually people get tired of doing free work that the devs should’ve been doing in the first place.
Just completed Wolfenstein new order. Noticed some of the big machines would suddenly be stood in a different position if I moved my mouse. Very buggy release spoiling good work done earlier in the same franchise.
As for network Addons: I have not problem with network routes except I have the feeling that there are lines ending "somewhere". This is the case with this Cardiff Route. And this is the case with the new announced S-Bahn Frankfurt - Wiesbaden route, where the lines will end in Frankfurt instead building too the tunnel sections and ad the existing line to Hanau from Frankfurt-Fulda which will have get us a complete line.
I wonder if they have purposely done the route like this and with all the short cuts they have done, with it clearly not being to a basic standard so they can use the excuse ‘it doesn’t sell’ What was Matt and the devs thinking as well as the Q and A team thinking this was fit for release? We see the flaws and clearly state the flaws in the product yet they can’t see with their own eyes? Just doesn’t make any sense.
What I fear is that DTG staff see these concerns as nothing more than a loud minority criticising their work and thus doesn’t warrant time or attention. would really appreciate a response to some of the concerns….
Same here mate, Was really exited for TfW to be in the game and they have made a shambles with it. I forgot to put in my post 'It is an excuse for them not to do Networker routes' You know they use the if it doesn't sell they wont do it excuse. Well it isn't going to sell if it is in such a LOVE quality! Anyone with a brain would know that. Shouldn't they know how to meet customer expectations? Doesn't seem like it at all. Maybe Dovetail should be community ran.
Don't worry DTG can produce decent content when they want to (and when their outsourced content is not branded as their own). You just watch in the summer release when they have finally pulled their finger out, but they've jaded the community once to many times and it has a knock on effect on sales. Then they'll suddenly improve to draw us back in... It might be a little bit to little and to late for some of the hardcore players by that point though and they might of lost complete confidence in DTG, whos own actions have brought it on themselves. They can't be so naive to not recognise they are damaging their reputation and future content at this point.
I have watched the stream, the whole stream, and bloody hell it is not looking particularly good. The 150/2 still sounds like the dryer, which is unacceptable, considering this being a known issue for years, surely the first thing being organised when the 150/2 were known to be included (not just a layer) in a release were getting the sounds fixed, however clearly not the thought process in DTG Towers. Some of the scenery looks fine, other parts are just appalling. The 153 would seem to be the highlight, however even that doesn't sound as close to the real thing as what the 158 does to its own prototype. A shame as I do seem to remember when EMT had them they were quite powerful sounding things for their size. I do also feel that the route would benefit from some more milage as it seems that as soon as you get into some sort of flow the service comes to an end. I like the concept of the route, that being a diesel orientated DMU route, but like so many other things in TSW the delivery just lets it down. Oh, there were also a quote from Mr P himself which I just couldn't help but chuckle at, as it sums so many things up for me: "Why is it in TSW on stations that don't have many people in reality, they show up in their droves; you get a big city station and you never hear from them!" People on here have been asking similar for years and an answer/resolution is still to come and it the same for many other problems in the game. I would not mind these bang (or just below) average routes being done by DTG and those they outsource to, if there were some evidence of big work to polish the core up, but frankly I am not seeing that, will be a sale purchase for me I'm afraid. Oh one final point, this may be down to the fact I had a bit of a headache whilst watching the stream, but the microphones were really poor quality, and the seeming shouting at some points were not received well by my ears, or head in fact. Don't mean to sound negative at this point but I feel I have gone past the point of sugar coating as the same issues keep appearing and persisting across individual DLCs and the core as a whole. Edit: Forgot to add that it were good to see the JT Clag added, does look ever so much better.
The lack of freeware projects from keen developers is lacking unfortunately. TSC in its heyday was superb, so much freeware available. The TSW editor and it's complexity is putting a lot of folks off. Shame really, but there you go.
Honest question - what sorts of concerns are you talking about, and what sort of responses would you want? From DTG's perspective - this is not a thread with concerns. Actual addressable concerns here are nearly non-existent. It's full of silly claims and bashing for the sake of bashing: "The content in the stream was bad, this is not the quality I am willing to pay for!" - Fair enough, don't buy this then, your right. "The scenery seems off, I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something wrong with it." - Ah, you don't know what's bad, but it is bad, gotcha. "The bad parts are really bad!" - The depth of this feedback is truly astounding, such a constructive opinion. "This reeks of Rivet, you just know it's gonna be real bad!" - Ok then, Mr. Rivet detector, going forward DTG stance is that content is being done with collaboration and no developer is an island, and boy are you in for disappointments in the future, Rivet will not be shut down and will continue to collaborate. Anything else? And this complaining is going on, and on, and on, and on... But none of it is really addressable in any way. With what is being posted here, it looks to me like DTG should put up a chatbot for you to rant to, and it would reply to these messages accordingly. Tell you what, you give me a real concern, and I can answer it without even being with DTG. There, you won't have to wait for an official answer that not coming, probably. Something like this: "The sounds are so bad on the 150." - We have remixed the sounds, and we find them much improved over the original 150 audio. We hope you will share our opinion and find them more appealing, once you take the train for a drive yourself. "The route is 30 quid!" - It indeed is. Game development costs have skyrocketed in recent years, and it takes more effort than ever before to design, develop, test, and release a product. The hike in pricing reflects that. This is a medium length route with multiple branches, two pieces of rolling stock (one significantly updated and one brand new) and an extensive timetable of over 500 services, and we believe the price is warranted with the content you are getting. "This is not a day 1 purchase, I am not touching this until it's on sale!" - We are sorry the product is not appealing enough for you to warrant a day 1 purchase, as we have worked hard on it. DTG is frequently putting up sales for various game bundles and DLC packs, and you are invited to partake in. Make sure to grab the route on a sale when the price works for you! "The route should go to XYZ, it's too short as is!" - Every route has to end somewhere. We understand you are passionate about a station/branch/area that is dear to you, but the realities of game development are such, that we need to balance development time and cost with the content being developed to ensure we are a profitable business in order to deliver you further content for TSW. "The concourse of the station is not modelled!" - Creating any route for TSW is a lot of work. We are operating on a development budget and need to adhere to it, so we need to make difficult choices regarding where we put in the time and effort. In this case we took a decision that the station's concourse is an area we are willing to remove from scope in order to provide you with Cogan and Heath High Level as interactive stations instead. We appreciate your understanding. "This building doesn't match the real world /this bus is a wrong model/there is a missing piece of architecture" - Video games are only approximations of reality to the point where meaningful, engaging gameplay can happen. We focus on gameplay elements, such as authentic track/signal placement, service patterns, stations and platforms, signaling and safety systems, authentic rolling stock and other areas that contribute to the gameplay experience. Individual inaccuracies are unavoidable, fortunately they do not affect the gameplay experience. We hope you enjoy the scenarios and timetable services on offer! "There is a misplaced bush/misaligned tree/missing trashcan/no litter on the platform/my aunt's house has different curtains" - Please go outside once in a while, breathe in some fresh air, touch the grass, and contemplate what is, and what isn't, important in life. There, how does that look? Concerns addressed? How may I assist you further?
Never once brought up rivet myself other than adding to conversations - you seem unnecessarily aggressive. I’ve pointed out actual concerns as to why they felt it acceptable to be so lazy with a central piece to the route and use a teleporting feature as a get out of jail card. that’s my concern - as for your aggression, I think maybe you need to take some time off and calm down if I’ve upset you that much! Yikes.
Seems like he used AI to make that One of those DTG/Rivet [EDIT - Jan - Language]. Don’t know why they needed the feel to put that.
Ah, you misinterpreted my intentions. I did not say that you brought up Rivet. You said that the concerns in this thread are not addressed. The concerns I listed did not come from you, I never implied that. These are the concerns that I see in the thread being brought up (multiple times, over an over). So this is my attempt at addressing these concerns. The teleporting feature is indeed a bummer. If I were to imagine what DTG's response would be, it would align with my concourse answer.
Definitely seems a case of why use a sentence when you can write an essay. Sadly some people forget this is a forum for the expression of different views which you are always going to get in any consumer group. If Mr/Ms .pl is happy with spending £30 on this fine, knock him/her self out. But don’t try to snuff out or come over all keyboard warrior because others don’t share the rose tinted view!
Sorry to disappoint, but no AI was used in creating that post As to why I felt the need to post that - I am annoyed with people constantly being so negative in this forum. Everything is always bad, everything is always wrong. The endless cycle, now with Cardiff City Network: Stage 1: Cardiff announnced! So excited! A network route woo-hoo! Stage 2: Oh my, Rivet better not be involved. Stage 3: The screenshots look awesome! Excited again! Stage 4: The trailer was a bit meh. Some parts looked shoddy, like it was Rivet that made them. Stage 5: Oh my, just watched the stream, totally unplayable pile of garbage! Rivet confirmed!!! And so on, and on, and on. And what's really puzzling is the fact, that these things are considered "feedback", even when there is nothing but disdain for Rivet/DTG in the posts, and there is no addressable claim being made. Some of these sentiments are exactly what I shown with my post. AI-fuelled Rivet [EDIT - Jan - Language], haha, good one
It was actually constructive criticism before you came in now you’re all bashing us for being honest about where the game is heading and the poor quality of DLC from Dovetail and Rivet mainly for UK routes.
I already said before that I am not going to pick this up in foreseeable future as I am playing through TSW2 era still. I will wait for a sale, and I everyone else is free to wait for a sale, buy day 1, or never pick this up. That's the whole point, you have a choice. No one is making anyone buy content that does not appeal to them. Yet people are behaving like they are being extorted by DTG for 30 quid. Well, they aren't. And when I pick this up, I will have fun with it, as I have had with each and every route that I played. I like in driving virtual trains and I will enjoy visiting Cardiff in this DLC as well. What I dislike however, in general, is showing complete disrespect towards anyone's work. This thread reeks of disrespect towards Rivet, towards DTG, and towards efforts of developers. And as a gamedev insider I am strongly opposed to this disrespect, because I know how much work it takes to deliver something, and how unfair it is to be bashed for your involvement based on your involvement, and not fruits of your labor. And we are talking about a route none of us played yet. Can you please show me where there is constructive criticism? You know - actionable feedback, that leads to improving the game? How is calling the developers lazy because they didn't model the concourse of a station constructive? Please enlighten me. How is calling a building out with "something that Rivet made" constructive? What exactly has been constructed by this feedback, apart from lack of respect for the developer? The only actionable things I read in this thread were lights at Cardiff Central at night and using the 153 sounds for the 150. One was fixed, the other (150 sounds) was addressed by re-recording/remixing 150 sounds. That's all.
I’ve quite literally tried to be as neutral as I can. I think it’s fair to ask for concerns to be answered. Whether or not DTG do that is their prerogative. I’ve pointed out when some of my things have been nitpicky - I’ve also praised DTG for getting details right/fixing issues I had with the trailer and screenshots. I’ve also praised that some of the route actually looks pretty decent and accurate. I’ve also said the 150 doesn’t sound as terrible, but the AWS needs changing. Whether they nick it from the 153 is another thing. what I am worried about is DTGs constant failings, and then trying to excuse pure laziness. I think that’s fair. There is ZERO excuse for Cardiff Central not being fully modelled. Especially when they’ve modelled much bigger and busier stations.
To be quite honest there is plenty of usable constructive criticism that was interchangeable between this and WCMLS, and it appears it wasn't even acknowledged, used or taken in consideration when this route was being built and some of the same mistakes have transferred across... To give proper what you call 'constructive criticism' in articulate and reasonable detail we'll wait until the full release of the content on Tuesday. But as for now the feed back and constructive criticism I've seen in this thread are completely useful and valid and are based of the visual issues players witnessed in the stream. If you're happy buying and using mediocre content and it doesn't bother you, please be my guest, as long as you enjoy it (sincerely). But where a £30 price tag is involved, the more hard core simmers who expect realism and accuracy are well within their rights to make an assessment and give useful criticism from the stream they saw. That IS useful criticism by listing the visual inaccuracies, lack of visual detail, sounds mixed, and modelling if stations... If it isn't can you tell me why? Because that is literal feedback that can be remedied if given the chance. Lessons and feedback that were received by players concerning WCMLS haven't been implemented going forward or solved in this title and are reoccurring in this add on from what I can see. So before shooting down people as if they are making a fuss over nothing and giving the impression they are just making malicious comments, understand that this is overspill from feedback that was not listened to, which has reoccurred in terms of visual errors and poor detail and passed into this content (well from what I can see from the stream anyway). Oh, and if that's the tip of the iceberg wait until it's release...
Sorry I dont understand your point here with regard to actionable feedback? The low res building textures - Fix the building textures put something with higher quality texturing in like the stuff on Suffragette, WSR, WCMLOS, TSG route etc. Lack of lineside detail and foliage especially around the depot which looks too clean - Put in more foliage so it's again closer to the standard of Suffragette, WSR, WCMLOS, TSG route etc. Which we know can be done. Whitchurch station - Fix the copy pasted looking hedgerow, Add the foliage that's missing down the whole other side of the station, add higher quality representative buildings just like Suffragette, WSR, WCMLOS, TSG route etc. The 150 doesn't sound great? - Use the sound set from the 153 as they sound the same as Vern said but adjust the weights/physics between the two units. Cardiff concourse is too much to model? - London Euston concourse is modelled and that route is gigantic and has much denser scenery? We KNOW that DTG can make a route to higher quality than this. It doesn't matter who did the scenery etc. What we are saying is these factors in a £29.99 route are not good enough. Once again look at: Suffragette, WSR, WCMLOS, TSG route etc for the kind of quality scenery and product you can expect. We all wanted this route to be good which is why we're frustrated.
This. And as for the rivet (yes, rivet) comments. I said it before, I’ll say it again. I couldn’t give a hoot who made the route. As long as it’s a decent quality. This isn and falls so short in so many places.
One question I have is regards the timetable I’ve never been to wales but if anyone can I would like some clarification on the timetable whilst I understand that the class 150/2 has its own timetable what doesn’t seem so clear to me is the class 153 timetable so what I would like to know is is the class 153 timetable individual to each of the sub classes of the 153 ie 2 class 153 timetables or is it just 1 timetable covering both the 153 sub classes Thanks in advance
IRL they’re both used interchangeably. But the 153s are almost always on Radyr. Specifically the non-prm toilet units as the route is short enough to not require one.
I'd probably guess that the sentiment is the same from the others person side, so their thread is much happier and too their liking, everyone is a winner, break out the fizzy booze that comes in massive bottles....
I chose just to stop interacting with the Bliz person. Not worth the time. As I said multiple times I don't enjoy making these comments but it has to be said because it is true. The one true thing that shows laziness in the route is that teleport to the other platform. That is as I said just pathetically lazy. Never ever known that to be on TSW and now the fact they are doing it on a 20 mile really short route is just pathetic it really is. £30 is not justifiable whatsoever, I don't know if they do but I hope all Dovetail team sees this. As I said on here I think or another thread why is it we can instantly spot problems in the preview stream, yet DTG just go yep that is totally fine. When it clearly isn't. With the Rivet thing, proven they have a horrible track record, if they did really good on there routes and know we could trust them we wouldn't have a problem with them being involved. But we do because they have proved they can't deliver to customer expectations. They are just scam artists at end of the day. Take FCL for example, Jasper said they will have these problems fixed never got fixed really, preview stream said it was an old build. That was a total lie. They will Lie to get people to buy and then not do anything and just move on. Now I have said lots about this on this thread and don't want to repeat myself but the fact it is a 20 mile route and they can't even produce it to the maximum high quality is unacceptable. CymruGiard has really good points since he said himself he is a local.
Again - I latched on to your post to go after multiple topics from multiple posters in this thread that were being very silly/disrespectful/not constructive. I apologize for making it sound like I was going after you, I wasn't. Your post was actually reasonable enough to call out criticisms not being answered, and this is why I quoted it, but really, nothing personally about your points. I appreciate your feedback not being all negative, but rather objective, it is certainly more than many in this thread are willing to give. For the station modeling, I stand by my original explanation. We are not getting the innards of one station (albeit important one), and we are getting two more interactive stations than originally announced. Whether that is a fair trade comes down to personal preference. I would much rather have stations I can drive to, than a building interior that I never go into, but I understand how someone else might have a different opinion here. If it is mediocre - (which I can't say anything about now) - there are constant crashes, broken scenarios that you can't complete, broken timetable with constant red signals, streaming issues with textures, dreadful FPS, or a ton of bugs, then no, I won't be "happy" with it. This needs to work, and work well, first and foremost. How it works affects all people that play the route, regardless their familiarity with a real world place. Accurate comes second - to appreciate accurate you need to be familiar with the source material, and most of the world have never been to Cardiff to appreciate the finer details of good representation. Believable is a good substitute where accurate is not possible due to time/effort constraints. To rephrase it a bit - an inaccurate, but well working route is more preferable than an accurate, but broken one.
Given that sales figures are not matters of public record, they don't actually need to release a flawed route to make this statement - they can just say it anyway! I suspect they knew it wouldn't be a top seller with other more eye catching routes like the Dutch line and Mildmay so pulled the development budget and just went for a quick release to clear the decks before TSW6.
I'm going to guess your asking that for the obviously terrible crime that they can have a sensible round view of everything and not align with your DTG are just lazy cash grabbing bandits......
