Cargo Line Volume 1 - Questionable New Pack From Skyhook

If the price is right... I'll be purchasing this pack.

I hope that the VTG license allows further rolling stock packs to supplement some of the German routes too

 

AND you would only have one Class 66 to fix/keep updated instead of 48 copies.

 

It has to work in some way. Otherwise, DLCs in many games would be completely impossible. When new country DLCs are released for the truck simulators, there are definitely a lot of assets being shared. They might be part of the core perhaps, but can be shared. I think even Sony etc. can understand an effective way of not filling up the drives with one game and its DLCs. If this doesn't work with TSW, I would probably first point to TSW itself. The game is known for its horrible architecture, constant content breaking being evidence of that. Like when new speed signs on one route made 10 unrelated routes display 0 on all signs. So even the example with damage control on other routes doesn't work, the game has a trail of broken content that wasn't even touched in the first place. Forgotten, yet still broken later.

 

Not getting the logic for this one, for me personally if it was free would not even bother downloading, not worth the disk space.

 

The Centro pack from SimTrack Studios is releasing for £5 on Thursday 14th December. DTG has advertised it as usual in the Forums and News sections of DTG Live.

We have a press release on Skyhook Games' website, advertising a release date of Tuesday 12th December (the same day as the December roadmap) for Cargo Line Vol 1, but still NO official confirmation from DTG. Will the pack be releasing on Tuesday (seems unlikely), and if so, at what price?

When will we receive an update from either Rivet Games or DTG regarding Engineering Express? Both parties have been extremely quiet since pulling it at short notice from November's release schedule.

Seems that both Engineering Express and Cargo Line Vol 1 may now be Q1 2024 releases rather than Q4 2023 releases.

 

If skyhook say it's releasing on the 12th, that's when it's releasing.

 

Never saw a TSC marketplace pack spawn such a discussion

If it's not interesting, it'll just be ignored.

 

Although Skyhook developed the route, DTG as publishers ultimately decide if / when the route will be released, as evidenced when DTG delayed the release of Rivet's Engineering Express at the end of November.

I just found it strange, that DTG have not yet advertised the route IF it's being released on Tuesday, as lack of purchases would be financially harmful for both DTG and Skyhook.

 

If Skyhook has no permission to share the release date they dindt do that! The release date is so close it would be really strange its a wrong leading Information. So that DTG dindt share this information its not a big deal. So they give the surprise to Skyhook and to be honest its not a big reveal. There is also no preview stream either for both packs

 

well, does it seems some members have a vested interest in this pack and are therefor so defensive over it?

To me, it's just a couple of tank cars I can do without if there is no real purpose for them apart from pulling them from one end of the line and back. Tank cars serve chemical industries, often carry hazmat which require special handling, train make up and shunting/switching protocols, which can all add to the game play.
Then there is the problem/cost of licensing a brand name or trade mark like VTG, GATX, WACOSA for the leasing firms or any fuel or chemical company colours, name and logo when the factory or plant serviced bears the same name.

 

That's probably due to rivet finding maybe a game breaking issue or something rather than dtg telling them don't release it.

 

It will be interesting to see how the price of this compares with a Matrix Trains coach pack for TSC, where £2.99 buys you a pack of several types (usually at least three) passenger coaches, lovingly modelled inside and out.

 

when the tank car pack is released it will be interesting to see if the timetable is fixed so that freight trains finally show up in timetable mode when spawning in on foot on MML. (Currently no freight trains appear when spawning into timetable on foot).

 

I believe that the new Regional Railways Class 323 Pack by Sim Track Studios will release on the 14th for £4.99, what will this Cargo Line pack be costing us? I don’t need to Class 323 but for under a fiver, I will buy as I will this if the price is right. Can DTG inform us please?

 

I guess this will be the same price... If it will be more its waste of money i think.

 

For all intents and purposes, we have been informed that Cargo Line Vol.1 Petroleum is releasing on the 12th December. Midland Main Line for TSW4 will be updated prior to this to support the release. I don't know why the announcement article from DTG isn't out yet but there will be one as I've reviewed it.

WRT pricing, we have been informed it will be GBP £9.99. More than a reskin, less than a new locomotive. DTG has aligned it with similar packs available for TSW4.

WRT freight layers in timetable mode on console, there was nothing we could find wrong with this. There is one timetable file with all content within enabled for all platforms. Some routes do have PC and console specific versions of their timetable, but not MML. Bear in mind that the RHTT stuff will only appear between September & November; The Rail Operations 37 services consist of 1 playable move each month; The (SEH) Class 66 rail tour is March to April; The (NTP) Class 45 rail tour is May to June; and the (WCLSS) Jubilee rail tour is November to December. The (CL31) Cement train will appear all year round. If none of this does appear for you, maybe the updated version containing the Cargo Line layer will remove whatever was causing it. Layers in timetables for additional trains are all contained in the timetable file and made visible when the required stock is detected as installed.

We really think there is enthusiasm for expansion of freight operations in TSW and as such have many proposals with this focus. Petroleum is the first, we're already advancing Cargo Line Vol.2 and look forward to the release of the updated Midland Main Line. All feedback is greatly appreciated.

And finally, the reason for this very late post is that I've been working on a live stream setup with the hope to provide one prior to release. #TotallyNotNervous

 

No need to be nervous Adam, you've survived presenting TSC to the Prime Minister once, didn't you?

 

I'll be picking up the pack as I already enjoyed MML, and having it upgraded even more sounds great.
With regards to feedback for MML, or a Cargo Line Vol.2.
I would love to see Ratcliffe Power station made playable with services for MML.
For Cargo Line Vol.2. If the 66 must be used again, I'd at least like to see it in a non EWS livery. Preferable another freight loco like the 37 or something would be even better.

 

Thanks for the further insight into the upcoming pricing for the pack, including the pricing. While I for one certainly appreciate this pack more than other people here as (and I say this as someone who has created liveries in LD for over 3 years now) you get way more than you can do in LD with the new models that depict the TEA's modern counterparts, I can't agree with the pricing here. I know you said DTG has more or less been responsible for the pricing, and have aligned it with other similar add-ons, so if so, this is more directed at DTG than you all at Skyhook, but the pricing isn't aligned with other add-ons of a similar nature.

The RHTT pack added quite a bit of new content - 4 variants of the KFA RHTT wagon, 1 new livery for the 66 (although this is just a more weathered EWS one, but I'll count it), modifications to the 66 to have the RHTT controls, new RHTT gameplay mechanics, 3 new scenarios and 16 new services. Now compare this to your CLP pack, which also contains a similar amount of new content - 3 variants of the modern TEA wagon, 5 new liveries for the TEAs (more than 1 for the 66, but the VTG branding on the TEAs isn't that complex and there is no modifications needed for the 66, so I call it even there), 4 new scenarios (1 more than than RHTT, but again evens itself out with no new gameplay mechanics being needed) and 16 new services.

All in all, both packs offer a pretty much equal level of content being added to the game, so a price tag of double in my opinion is not justified here, and is a disservice to the pack as people will be far more likely to pass on picking it up. I probably will pick it up, but as long as the pricing stays the same, I'm going to be waiting for a sale.

As for Volume 2, I'm hoping it's a coal pack with EWS HTAs myself that can work services in, out and around Ratcliffe. I think it'd be highly beneficial if we received a class 60 with it as the 66 is really overused in TSW now (being part of and priced as a loco pack ofc), but I do suspect that's out of the scope for these packs, which is fine with me as long they're priced appropriately - although another loco getting a reskin could be nice as that'd probably fit into these packs better.

 

After reading through the topic. I do see this one being viable for people like me because these tank cars I used to see regularly behind a Class 60/66 in the East Midlands around Nottingham, Lincoln and Barnetby. Yes okay, I would have like it if Skyhook Games did a pack of these with a Class 60 but in all honestly, what is there to stop them offering a Class 60 in the future with these tank cars as a loco and freight in the future?

The way I see it is that DTG/Skyhook must have the licences for using the DB branding in their add-ons, so there is little to no barriers to both companies making a Class 60 pack in the future where routes like MML, ECML and GWE that could utilise the Class 60's in the future. I have done a topic on the Class 60 in the suggestions tab, should anyone here be interested in providing more feedback on the Class 60, this wagon pack could well be the gateway to a Class 60 being done in the future but its really down to DTG/Skyhook Games finding it viable to do.

 

As much as I greatly appreciate all the work you've put in to make MML better, I must say Im disappointed in the price.

The BR Heavy Freight Pack back in the day was only £12 and that included two locos and two wagons, so why is it now £10 for one wagon?

If you want a more recent example the RHTT was £5 and that included a new(ish) livery and a new gameplay mechanic so I fail to see the logic for this wagon pack.

I will wait for a sale which is a shame as I was interested in this pack initially.

 

Its not only Freight on consoles that have a problem as I have said multiple times, There is a problem with freight appearing when spawning into timetable mode on foot. on PC Steam version as well. I own all the UK content needed to enable all layers and still have a problem with freight not appearing. For example the timetable service 6M93 Dagenham to Hope empty cement train is due to leave Leicester at 01:39. so I spawned into timetable mode On foot and set the time to 01:35 at Leicester and the cement train never appeared. Despite my waiting for around fifteen minutes for it to show up. Now if I spawn in via the class 66 I appear as expected in the cab ready to start. So whats going on? It appears it's not only the 6M93 serivce that doesn't appear when you spawn in to timetable mode on foot. From what I can gather, none of the freight services appear when spawning in on foot, so something is amiss somewhere. Can anyone else get the 6M93 Dagenham to Hope empty cement train to appear when spawning on foot on PC version? Or any freight train for that matter?

 

I would have bought it at £4.99, at a push £7.99 but not at £9.99. That’s simply too expensive for what it is.

When you say ‘we have been informed it will be…’, are you saying 3rd party developers don’t get to set the price for their own content?!

Here’s a similar-ish pack from AP. I say similar, it has 2 model variants, 3 end-ladder variants, 60+ branded variants, weathered variants and empty / loaded variants. AP aren’t exactly known for being cheap, and this comes in at £7.99. AP’s wagon packs are almost all priced at £5.99 and contain way more actual wagon than this pack. £7.99 is the exception rather than the rule.

https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/wagon/tta_wagon_pack_vol_1

What is the justification for the TSW pack costing £10?

 

Pricing is pretty much in line with the Arosa Aggregates pack, so it looks like £5 for a reskin, £10 for new wagons and £13 for new locos. Whether it's worth that is very much down to each person's own opinion, probably one for a sale for me, but I can see the full price being of value to particular fans of MML and GWE.

A lot of the potential value is wrapped up in the future, if these wagons start appearing in new UK routes as layers then the £10 starts to make more sense. Some kind of bundle once they've released all the planned volumes would be sensible, although would only really work on Steam where bundle prices are dynamic based on which parts you already own, I wish console stores worked like that also.

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you can pick up the TSC Gordon Mack/Matrix Trains coach packs for £2.99 each, which include at least three new vehicles, several liveries and all exquisitely detailed inside and out. Not for one minute doubting the quality of the work that went into this, but DTG and their associates are pricing themselves out of the market selling at £9.99. £5 should be the maximum price for something like this.

I wish SHG well but they will be lucky to sell a couple of hundred copies at that price.

 

£10! I am sorry, but that is just too much for what's being offered really. It is a shame because I were actually considering buying this and it does sound as if the price has been decided by someone other than Skyhook, which is quite a shame personally. Perhaps if there is a decent enough sale I will get it, but for the time being I am not supporting the doubling of price of this type of content. It is a shame that this is going to affect 3rd parties making the content, and not only whoever it is who decided this price and this is aimed at.

It doesn't look like the work can be faulted much and MML updates are dearly appreciated so this isn't really a criticism of Skyhook and it is a shame that the price has likely changed the minds of many about buying it.

 

Will the route be updated even without buying the pack I wasn't buying the pack anyway as it doesn't offer much really

 

I feel sorry for Adam for shaking the hand of Dodgy Dave...

 

“We’re all in it together.” “Let’s have a referendum, the British public aren’t that stupid, oh carp they are and voted to come out.” “I’m out of politics, oh hang on here’s a peerage. I’m back!”

 

Product aside it'd be amazing to see you on stream again! It was always good to listen to what you had to say and was always a laugh when you were on!

 

Looking forward to the stream LucaZone
The thing is when you look at DLC just use the ol For >insert price here< can I justify the price against the playtime and "fun" that I will get out of it. If doing extra scenarios and or timetable services is your thing then dont orry about the price. If you cant justify it then by all means dont buy it. Simple as. Persoanlly for me Iike these kind of packs and think they will be popular, for me it adds extra gameplay to the routes especially Great Western Express (which at one time was my most used route) So I think bringing life to older routes id a good thing.

I suppose to be fair we all would live to see a Class 60, but just saying if Adam and the team do in fact create a 60 then we would also need access to Toton yard to see the masses of them lined up. Also now it looks as though DB are dumping the remainder of the 60's and re gearing 10 class 66/0's to take on the 60's work. So these 66's would be reclassified as 66'6s

Anyhow look forward to the pack.

Hentis

 

Also, it's worth mentioning that yes, I know the Arosa packs are all £10 pricing and are in line with this pack, but I also think they should be priced like the RHTT pack and are overpriced at their current price point as well.

 

Agreed. Both the RHTT pack and 37/7 pack for SEHS are much better value. I was actually surprised how cheap they are when I bought them, considering the value they bring to SEHS and other routes as well.

 

FWIW, I'm another that would have bought it at £4.99.
I will not be paying £9.99 for any gameplay pack.

Edit: Steam complete your collection bundle discount made it £8.09 so I decided to buy it after all.

 

Isn't the RHTT pack an DTG in house offering though? Presumably steam will take a cut of the sales of this pack, plus DTG and then Skyhook. There probably wouldn't be much left out of £5.

I will probably pick it up as it adds a little more variety to the route.

 

Ouch £9.99 they are having a joke when the 323 pack is only £4.99. I will probably spend a xbox gift card for it and wait for a sale if I want it in my steam collection. Certainly on the scale of things not worth £9.99 but then everything is going up massively in price and as an OAP I have to take care with my spends at the moment.

 

Agreed. Their £5 price offers some really good value and have really helped to push SEHS to the top spot when it comes to my favourite routes, especially since the ROG 37 pack brought the white SE 375 too. Now SEHS really offers so much variety for a route in the game. But yeah, as long as these packs are priced appropriately, I am a big fan of them, and part of me hopes that DTG do some more of these packs again in the future.

Yes, sure, you make a valid point here, and while DTG and the respective platforms will of course take a cut of the pack, I don't think it's really fair on us consumers nor the dev that their pack is priced more cause of that while DTG is sold for less. It just makes people less incentivised to buy that pack, which means everyone loses out then. And while I'm sure they'll be people who buy the pack when it comes out like yourself at full price (I assume that's what you meant anyway), I think they would sell far more of them at a lower price. And since the cuts are only a percentage of the price usually, then it really doesn't make much difference how much it costs, only that they'd have to sell double of them at £5 to make the same profit as they do when selling it at £10. But I think they could sell well over double at that price as people would be far more declined.

At the end of the day though, we don't have enough insight here to know exactly why they've decided to sell it at the price they have, but from the view of your average consumer, they are 2 packs offering similar levels of content but one costs double of the price of the other pack.

 

I'm taking a bit more of an optimistic outlook on this. It's not just a reskin, but a new model - with, I assume, new physics. We could thus potentially have a humble bogie tank wagon that's been lovingly crafted like the 158. Never mind that it's the same type of wagon as something already in-game from the era of TVL and NTP; we might have such niceties as a distributor release valve, load-sensitive braking effort, the painted markings actually lining up with the equipment, and so on.

Now imagine that a similar degree of effort went into rebuilding a locomotive that already exists in-game, but which everyone hates playing because it's so janky and broken, and the new version comes in several different variants and liveries to suit various traffics and eras as well as being much better set up. That would be worth some money.

 

I think the problem lies here is that what likely puts most people off is the lack of a new freight locomotive such as a Class 60 that would have complemented these new tank cars nicely. As DB did use them with Class 60's a lot of the time and sometimes with a Class 66. I would have personally been happy to pay £15 to £20 for a Class 60 with these wagons but I think I will likely hold off for a sale because with all due respect. I already have the Class 66 locomotive and whilst they are ten a penny on the freight in the Mainland UK (we don't have freight trains here in NI), A Class 60 offering with these new tank cars would have been more appealing to more buyers hence the feedback in the majority of the posts previous. As constructive feedback on the price for just new wagons, £4.99 to £6.99 would be a more fairer price for just a wagon pack and it is more palatable.

 

Looks like for some who were defending this, the price isn't right for them. Oh the irony.....

 

Modders aren't in it for the money.

 

Not to mention the work they do is often better than a company with more resources. Usually those that aren't in it for the money are more passionate about their work rather than those that are more concerned about the bottom line and quotas

 

Something that's bugging me.

This is something which you don't have to buy, and it won't affect anything if you decide not to.

What's the problem?

 

Some people just seem to want to find something to moan about, others seem to think developers should work for small change and don't seem to understand how business works.

 

Well people are merely giving their feedback. It might make the developers/DTG change their mind about the pricing, or help them make better decisions in the future for upcoming packs if this one sells poorly.

 

Well, I mean.. businsess work by selling their products. If you can't sell your product, because it's underwhelming and/or overpriced, then you can easily go out of business. You need two parties for a sale.

 

The main question is will the big update to the route come out on Tuesday alongside the Cargo Line pack.

 

Yes it will be tommorow or on tuesday otherwise this pack will not work!

 

What is the problem of giving criticism of a product. It seems like you rather would have people keep their mouth shut when someone has a different opinion

 

Never said that, but I don't see the point in criticising a product that you aren't obliged to purchase.