Charing Cross To Seven Oaks And Waterloo Line

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by vipermfc#5684, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. vipermfc#5684

    vipermfc#5684 New Member

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    Would love to go through London bridge and also would love to go from Waterloo to Portsmouth please can we get these we all ready have must locos for southeastren so that will make less work.
     
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  2. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide anymore information about this route(s)?
     
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  3. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    Do some research about the route otherwise your not selling the route at all
     
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  4. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Fun Fact: By the time TS was as old as TSW is now, we had most of the Major London Terminus:
    Paddington was featured in 2007 (yes before TS even existed)
    St Pancras International was featured in 2013
    Victoria was featured in both 2012 and 2016
    Kings Cross was featured in 2013
    Liverpool Street was featured in 2013

    Furthermore, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Broad Street, and Marylebone have been featured in unofficial releases.

    4 Years into TSW, we have, well:
    Paddington (2017)
    St Pancras (2021)
    Victoria (2021)

    Yes, that's it. Just the 3, with a 4 Year Gap between Paddington and St Pancras International.
     
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  5. vipermfc#5684

    vipermfc#5684 New Member

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    London Charing cross to Dartford or op
    Love to go to Orpington from Charing cross london bridge Lewisham grove park and so on.
     
  6. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    That is no help
     
  7. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    Please don't make suggestions if you can't do simple research and implement that into your suggestions
     
  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Here's my post for the North Kent metro lines to Dartford. Didn't do one to Sevenoaks, but I have seen this recently so will hunt that down once I've repaired mine (missing pics at the mo)
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    London Bridge was in the South London pack released in 2014
    Marylebone released by JT much earlier, but on steam from December 2019 - Marylebone - Aylesbury (so now official)
     
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  11. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Might as well do the full line down to Tonbridge with the Bromley North branch and Lewisham 'loop'.

    It would be about 2/3 the size of the current Brighton Main Line route, with a similar level of traffic.

    To be honest, any Southeastern route that makes better use of the Class 465 would be welcome.
     
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  12. vipermfc#5684

    vipermfc#5684 New Member

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    Totally agree with you thank you would love to see this
     
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  13. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Well-Known Member

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    Rolling Stock:
    Services are formed using Southeastern’s fleet of Class 375 and Class 376 Electrostars and older Class 465 and Class 466 Networkers. (Class 66 on Freight Services on occasions.)
    Southeastern operates a fleet of about 392 trains, all of which are electric multiple units.

    Current fleet
    Trainset
    Class Image Type Top speed Number Carriages Routes operated Built Operated from
    mph
    km/h
    Bombardier Electrostar 375 [​IMG] EMU 100 160 10 3 Main line routes 1999–2005 2006
    102 4
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    376 [​IMG] 75 120 36 5 Metro routes 2004–2005 2006
    [​IMG]
    377/1 [​IMG] 100 160 2 4 Main line routes 2003 2017
    377/5 23 2008-2009 2016-2017
    [​IMG]
    Hitachi AT300 395 Javelin [​IMG] 140 225 29 6 High Speed 1 services 2007–2009 2009
    [​IMG]
    Networker 465 [​IMG] 75 120 147 4 Main line and metro routes 1991–1994 2006
    [​IMG]
    466 [​IMG] 43 2 Metro and limited main line routes. 1993–1994 2006
    [​IMG]

    As of November 2020, the current weekday off-peak service pattern, with frequencies in trains per hour (tph), i
    s:
    South Eastern Main Line
    Route tph Calling at Stock
    London Charing Cross to Ramsgatevia Tonbridge 1 Waterloo East, London Bridge, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Marden, Staplehurst, Headcorn, Pluckley, Ashford International, Westenhanger, Sandling, Folkestone West, Folkestone Central, Dover Priory, Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal, Sandwich 375

    Waterloo East, London Bridge, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Marden, Staplehurst, Headcorn, Ashford International, Wye, Chilham, Chartham, Canterbury West, Sturry, Minster

    London Charing Cross to Hastings 1 Waterloo East, London Bridge, Orpington, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, High Brooms, Tunbridge Wells, Wadhurst, Battle, St Leonards Warrior Square 375, 465, 466.

    1 Waterloo East, London Bridge, Orpington, Sevenoaks, Hildenborough, Tonbridge, High Brooms, Tunbridge Wells, Frant, Wadhurst, Stonegate, Etchingham, Robertsbridge, Battle, Crowhurst, West St Leonards, St Leonards Warrior Square.
    Supplemented during peak hours with a half-hourly service to Tunbridge Wells.

    Metro - South Eastern Main Line
    Route tph Calling at Stock
    London Cannon Street to Orpington via Grove Park 2 London Bridge, New Cross, St Johns, Lewisham, Hither Green, Grove Park, Elmstead Woods, Chislehurst, Petts Wood 376,
    465,
    466

    London Charing Cross
    to Sevenoaks via Grove Park 2 Waterloo East, London Bridge, Hither Green, Grove Park, Elmstead Woods, Chislehurst, Petts Wood, Orpington, Chelsfield, Knockholt, Dunton Green

    Grove Park to Bromley North (branch line) 3 Sundridge Park

    NOTE: It is my local railway as it goes via Orpington.
     
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  14. cafc4eva

    cafc4eva New Member

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    Said before but I would love to see this one!
     
  15. seandouglas

    seandouglas Active Member

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    Agreed! This would be a great route :)
    Perhaps the rolling stock could be a different variant of the 465 and a 375?
     
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  16. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, the Class 375/8 numbers 30 units, and the Class 375/6 is also 30, Class 375/7 numbers 15 (Requiring interior adjustments and different headlights). That should be enough units to make a full timetable. On the Networker side, the Class 465/2 could feature alongside the 2-car Class 466, which are most similar to the existing Class 465/9 (minus first class). The 465/0 and /1 would require new sounds and some external tweaks. The Class 376 could feature but doesn't go beyond Sevenoaks which might limit scenario/timetable potential.

    Alternatively backdate to Network SouthEast days with the Class 465/2 (as built, then newly introduced) and a Class 411 or 423 (as the new unit, being quite interesting to drive as they lack modern features like wheelslip/wheelslide protection). Personally I wouldn't mind either, although the prospect of driving a 4CEP or 4VEP is very appealing.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They could just as easily do a 376, which is a variant of the 375 electrostar so the same running gear and so on, but a different front end, different interior layout etc (so would be a while new build)
    Bigger gangways, bigger door spaces internally, double sunken doors rather than single... no toilets...
     
  18. seandouglas

    seandouglas Active Member

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    The 376 would work really well with the Dartford Metro routes (Gravesend to London Charing Cross, Canon Street and Blackfriars via the North Kent line, Bexleyheath line and Sidcup lines); I don't know how often they head towards Sevenoaks, I've only really seen 465s on the stoppers from Charing X (don't go down that way very often though).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Make the Class 376 & 377/5 standard DLC Class 466. That way SEHS layers in 395 375 & 465/9 Metro Cammell while this route gives 377/5 466 to SEHS. Want to make 377/5 take off quick just run it on 25kv 50hz routes due to it being like 387/2 it's American Metro-North Equivalent M8 11kv 25hz upgraded to 12.5kv 60hz 1985 25kv 60hz and it's German equivalent PZB Sifa Hamburg S-Bahn 15kv 16.7hz 474.3 & 490.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They frequently do runs to Orpington so would go down the line at least that far
     
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  21. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The Class 376 at Sevenoaks, not too sure how frequent they go down there (I have seen them in the sidings but that might just be for storage purposes), the new Class 707 runs to Sevenoaks and likewise lacks toilets, so I assume the 376 can be scheduled there too. They definitely turn up at Orpington however. If the Dartford metro lines do feature then the Class 376 is a must.

    The Class 377/5 tends to run the Chatham Main Line to Gillingham/Ashford (I don't think they run on the South Eastern Main Line regularly, if at all). Interestingly they still have their Southern interiors (these are my local trains so I know them quite well).
     
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  22. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for telling me and what should the standard train be I'm guessing it might be
    376 & 465 DLC 707.
     
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  23. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    No worries. The most common trains are the Class 375 and 465/466, which as previously mentioned could be different subclasses to the ones we already have in game. The Class 376 and 707 could feature as DLC but might be better suited to another route such as the Dartford metro lines as they can't realistically use the full length of this route and are thus less useful/beneficial to include.

    As an overview:
    Class 375 operating express services (all subclasses, 4-car to 12-car trains, mostly 8-car).
    Class 465 and 466 operating stopping and semi-fast services (all subclasses, 4-car to 12-car trains, mostly 6-car to 10-car).
    Class 376 and 707 operating stopping services (5-car and 10-car trains).
    Thameslink Class 700 would appear at Orpington and Sevenoaks (only useful as AI in this instance).
    Southern Class 377 would appear at London Bridge and Tonbridge (again AI only, layered on from ECW/BML).

    Freight wise, there's yards at Tonbridge and Hither Green, not much regular traffic so the ECW Class 66 could cover this well enough for static AI or for a short freight run. There's also a large depot/carriage sidings at Grove Park for Southeastern stock and numerous smaller sidings at Sevenoaks, Orpington and Tonbridge for overnight/off-peak stabling of units.

    Generally speaking, express services operate every 15 to 30 minutes operating between London Charing Cross and Tonbridge, calling at London Bridge and Sevenoaks only. These would continue onto the Kent coast. There are hourly/half hourly semi-fast services between Tonbridge and Charing Cross that call at intermediate stations to Sevenoaks and Orpington, and most stopping services simply call at all stops between Orpington and Charing Cross. There are numerous odd services too that go to Victoria and Cannon Street instead, and many AI-only services that would serve other lines connecting up to this particular line. Typical service duration varies from 30 minutes up to an hour.

    The Bromley North service would be a nice little bonus too, usually operated by a sole 2-car Class 466 operating a short 10 minute journey up the branch and back every half an hour. Perhaps a quirky little feature that would add to the route's appeal.

    You can call me a bit biased on this idea as this route is fairly local to me, but that aside if you want a compact yet busy commuter route making better use of trains we already have then this route is a great option.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
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  24. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about SEHS giving 375 DLC 465/9 Metro Cammell while this route gets 465 BREL standard.
     
  25. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    That's certainly a possibility. Trains from SEHS could substitute in too for more variety. Although the 2-car Class 466 is a Metro-Cammell build so it might be easier to do the Class 465/2 and 466 which doesn't require new sounds (different sounds might be more appealing though?).

    In retrospective however, given SEHS only came out at the beginning of this year, I think this route could wait a good few years before reusing the 375/465 on another route (there's many other routes with new trains to explore first).
     
  26. seandouglas

    seandouglas Active Member

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    I agree, a 376 would have to feature on a Dartford Metro route! I think a 707 would work better with a SWT "London commuter" route, perhaps with a repaint option available to be layered onto SE routes? The Southeastern "Citybeam" Livery looks REALLY good, in my opinion!

    I think the BREL 465s should be the ones that come with the route, with a 466 as well to use on the Bromley North branch as well as coupling to 2x 465s to form 10 car sets. Do 465/9s operate on this route? It would be good to have that DLC layered onto this route as well, either adding to or replacing 375 services to Tonbridge?

    I think it'll be really fun to include both Charing Cross and Canon St as well as the Hayes-Lewisham branch (With a sneaky extension to Beckenham Junction for the 1 a day parliamentary train). Canon St would see 4tph (2tph to Orpington, 2tph to Hayes) and Charing Cross will see pretty much all the other traffic. I'd also run the line from Charing X to Tonbridge Wells, including the Hayes line and Bromley North branch, a total length of about 45 miles.
     
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  27. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Even though I said the 376/707 doesn't use the full line length, thinking about it nor does the 465 on SEHS or a hypothetical 455/700 on BML. So they could still feature, albeit with limited additional gameplay (they would just substitute in for the 465/466 on stopping services instead of adding extra services).

    I was actually out and about yesterday (travelled to Greenwich to see BoatyMcBoatFace) and passed a few of the new Citybeam units. They do look smart although I'm not too convinced with the 'City Beam' logo itself (looks a bit bland and tacky!).

    Since the introduction of the Class 377/5 on Southeastern routes, the 465/9 mostly operates the same routes now as the other 465 subclasses (they were previously used on longer distance services having first class). The 375 services are almost always 375s, except for semi-fast services to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells that regularly use the 465 instead.

    Those lines are still within reason (BML is still larger) and it adds a good variety of extra services and gives the route more of a network feel, so I agree on that part. Alternatively the route could end at either Hastings or Ashford (giving about another hour/30 miles drive). Personally I would prefer the suburban lines (but might make the timetable very complex, especially if linking Beckenham Junction up to Orpington via Bromley South (Lots of Chatham Main Line traffic to add in!).
     
  28. seandouglas

    seandouglas Active Member

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    I think it would be better to have a separate route from Tonbridge to Dover Priory, with lots of freight and passenger traffic.

    Oh okay, so perhaps the 465/9 could add the peak hour Charing X to Tonbridge services as well as acting as a replacement for other 465 services.
    As much as I love the idea to link it up, I think a separate Chatham Main Line route (with the Catford loop) would do it more justice ;). That said, it would be great to link the two routes up if there are services or freight that would use both routes.

    Oh, sorry, I misunderstood! It would be a great addition, even if it's just AI or the odd train :)
     
  29. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The Chatham Main Line would be favourable if route merging were integrated into the core game at some point in the future.

    I was actually contradicting myself in an earlier comment :) (Don't worry, I normally cause mass confusion)
     
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  30. seandouglas

    seandouglas Active Member

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    Either way, it would be an amazing add on with so much potential services, routes and dlc-wise. Would also work really well under the "Rush Hour" banner given that London Bridge is involved!
     
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  31. robert#3139

    robert#3139 New Member

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  32. robert#3139

    robert#3139 New Member

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    This line will be a line from Charing X to Ramsgate/Dover/Folkestone as far as Ashford. Then they could also have one to Hastings/Tunbridge Wells. This route will have a great variety to provide to the public and I will be happy to pay 24.99 for this DLC. There are many routes you could choose from in this DLC e.g Charing X to Ashford, Charing X to Tumbridge Wells, Charing X to Tonbridge, Charing X to Sevenoaks (slow), Charing X to Ramsgate and Dover, Charing X to Folkestone Central, Charing X to Hastings (fast), Charing X to Hastings (slow). As you can see there are many possibilities and also a lot of AI that can be added, mainly around London. This route will also be great as many TSW players live in London and the South of England, so they will know this route, thus making them more likely to buy it like done in the BML. This route also will be great as it has terminuses so they could do a whole route, unlike ECW, at Charing X, Sevenoaks, Ashford, Hastings, and Tumbridge Wells making it more like driving the real thing. In addition, you can make upgrades to the 375 and sell 2 new locos (376 and 707 southeastern) making it more emerging. You can also make a paid extension to make the Medway Valley Line to connect SEHS and make the Grove park shuttle, which you could advertise for 11.99. This route has so much potential and extensions to be built. This route will also be relatable to the majority of the TSW audience making it a great selling point, this can eventually be linked to the SEHS and even the BML, this will truly develop the emersion of the game. I do strongly recommend that this route is created as it has so many options and lines to choose from, with this and a newly upgraded 375, which could have a proper TMS and GMTR and platform cameras will make an amazing DLC with loco and route add-ons. I truly hope that you take this into consideration as I see it as a big opportunity to hype up a British route like the BML and make it popular in the community (you also have dad rail who drove on it and his vids could make it more buyable to the public).

    Thank you for reading hope this will get added,
    Robert
     
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