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Class 20 First Impression - Bad

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by stujoy, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Was looking forward to this and now I’ve got it I am not impressed.

    Seriously bad LOD transitions on the model, the likes of which I’ve never seen before in TSW. The fan grills on the roof appear solid until you get real close to them. The buffers look like eyes opening as they get close to you, the textures are so different. I noticed a light isn’t on until the train gets close. The vents on the side change very noticeably as you get close. I’ve had to stop looking at it.

    My advice so far, sit this one out, it looks really rushed. I’ve had to pause my first run to come and type this. This is a low point and I wonder what horrors are to come as I get deeper into this DLC.
     
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  2. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Not surprised one bit. There was always a danger that this final release was going to be a rushed, ahh that will do, bum job. I was going to wait until a minimum 40% discount anyway, don't think I'll even bother with that after reading your review.

    I'm done with DTG and TSW
     
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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Initially I wasn’t going to buy it on release but after hearing that there were no more route releases until TSW2 and the learned the price of TSW2 then it fitted within my budget, and I thought why not. I was looking forward to TVL being filled out a bit more.

    The contrast between the looks of the Class 31 and this is huge. I haven’t had the heart to fire up TSW today and get further into the DLC. I’m so disappointed, even though I was expecting some things wouldn’t be perfect. The exterior model is so poor that I feel a bit cheated.

    TSW2 had better be great otherwise I’ll be taking a very long holiday from purchasing anything else from DTG. Only last month I bought RSN and the 155 and was blown away by how great they both are. To go from that to this is a shock that I wasn’t prepared for. EDIT (This bit has been slightly edited to remove an unfair word I used as although I feel the model isn’t as good as some others it isn’t as bad as the word suggested).
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  4. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    It looks ok on TinTin_57's video. Of course that's via YouTube. Perhaps take another look now you've had some sleep? Might still be the same but worth a second look. ;)
     
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  5. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    im sure the signaling is wrong. i was sat on a red at grangetown 5yds away from it and the hud was saying the red was 463yds away. Yes we had to go over a crossover which was 463yds away but im sure the signaling or the hud was wrong. it then gave me a green with a feather to go, surely this should have been a yellow with the feather to cross over. this was on the 3rd scenario relief driver.

    i also think the signaling or hud was wrong on the first scenario where we had to stop at the station and wait. again i was 5yds off the red signal but the hud was saying the red was ??? yds away.
     
  6. simongilford

    simongilford Well-Known Member

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    I've just done the tutorial and I love it, the washed out blue-grey and yellow paint scheme looks good and the sound is awesome.

    Going to be doing the three new scenarios on this tonight.
     
  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’ll be the longstanding issue on TVL where the game doesn’t know which way the train is facing. On some services, when you stop the HUD shows the signal behind you, as if you were reversing the train. It happens with the Class 31 and 101 a lot. A similar issue causes AI drivers to be at the wrong end in class 37 sometimes. It’s not exclusive to TVL but it is most noticeable on this route.
     
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  8. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Member

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    Yes if you change the reverser the signal its pointing at changes?

    But then I maybe confused which end of train I am meant to be at!
     
  9. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the DB BR 155 (now with working sound) is a cutie. Not much will ever match it's grace and beauty.

    But I am slightly surprised by your response to the Class 20 - I thought it would be right up your street.
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think the train thinks you should be at the other end and can’t recognise that you are at the right end. I’ve never got to the bottom of why it happens. I know AI drivers don’t change ends during a service that changes direction, they stay at the end they started at, or in the rear loco if multiple locos run around a train, but that doesn’t explain why it thinks you’re reversing from the start of the service. I’ve not driven the Class 20 enough yet to see how it handles which seat you sit in for the forward and rear facing controls.
     
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  11. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    This is a HUD fault, right? Doesn't actually affect the actual signals? (I have not noticed this error, but then I do not use the HUD for signalling).
     
  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes it should be but it looks awful from a distance. I’m sure I’ll get used to it and won’t need to look at it much when I’m driving it but it was such a disappointment from the off. It was my first impressions that I posted and it was from seeing the LOD transitions that I’ve never seen being so bad in TSW before. I’ll be back in the cab soon and give it a good drive and maybe everything else about it will be fine.
     
  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the only consequence of it while driving is that the HUD shows the wrong signal and speed limit changes when you are stopped or travelling very slowly. Once you pick up speed beyond a crawl the HUD then shows the correct signal and upcoming speed limit.
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh right - it's purely a direction of travel detection issue (and you need to move to trigger it sometimes). Gotcha.
     
  15. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I like it quite a bit. On the signalling, I was doing the Chopper and Change scenario and right after I dropped off the faulty wagons and moved forward again the signal was stuck on red. Restarted the scenario and it was fine. Now my theory here is that it depends how spot on you are at dropping off the faulty wagons in the previous step as to if the light changes. i recall a similar thing happening on one of the GWE scenarios where if you didn't hit your mark it messed up the rest of it.
    The signalling issue Dave Mel mentions also sounds similar to what was happening on East Coastway at release
     
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  16. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well, you can always watch this, if you need cheering up:



    A bit of automated hump shunting is always good for the spirits. And the 20s, 31s, 25s, 08s, 47, etc.... all look clear enough. But note... there are some very dodgy camera angles... which do not meet current standards of non-objectification-ness.
     
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  17. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    Superb film that one. There's plenty of those on that channel that are good.
    Have been watching a fair bit of the old stuff during lock down. The WCML electrification one is a fantastic one, if only for the complete disregard of any safety!
     
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  18. Railmaster

    Railmaster Active Member

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    I just graduated - without any problems ...
     
  19. Railmaster

    Railmaster Active Member

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    Don't hold me back with justified criticism either, but here I find it really exaggerated. The locomotive is no better or worse than others. And their sound sounds really good. In addition, their driver's cab is very different from other classes. Plus even double traction. My first impression is quite positive and it enriches TVL. I don't know what can be done wrong here.
     
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  20. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    Having watched Sam DTG Protagonist on tonight's stream wrestling with the 20, this golden oldie sprung to mind!

    Apologies for jacking the thread
     
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  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The discs on the front turn into diamonds as you get little distance from the train. And a headlight turns off.
    The fan grills seal up into a solid texture as your camera gets a little bit away from them even when looking from directly above.
    I find it a lot worse than other locos in this regard.

    From really close the loco looks okay. I did the first scenario in Journey mode tonight and I have not changed my opinion on how the loco looks and the LOD transitions. I do now have another observation, about the AWS horn. It is way too loud.

    The scenario I played was good, running on yellows all the way, and some of it on a part of the route freight trains have never been before. I’m still disappointed with the look of the loco though.
     
  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Get TS1. This doesn't happen on TS1 - you get completely stable LOD, unless you explicitly ask for Depth of Field (which is sort of nice).
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  23. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Member

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    I had the exact opposite impression, I felt this one was their best yet, really enjoying it so far, but only done tutorial and chopper and change scenario. I haven't noticed the LoD pop in, I guess I have been caught up in the movement of the wagons and other traffic to notice! So far so good from my end.

    Am running ps4 pro with boost mode and ssd, so that may help things?
     
  24. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    I'm a little puzzled by your feedback stujoy - have you changed your graphics settings recently? I didn't see anything when streaming it yesterday to make me think LOD transitions were anything out of the ordinary. I'm not dismissing your feedback, and I almost certainly don't have the same attention to detail that you do, just want to check something wonky hasn't happened to your settings.
     
  25. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I've also experienced a similar issue to Stujoy. If you load the tutorial, don't touch the loco and walk away from it. When you get to 30-40 meters away, a light will suddenly turn on (middle bottom light) on the front of the loco.

    It's possible this is a console only issue, as it wouldn't be the first time that bugs appear specifically on console.

    Overall it's a nice loco, just wish the timetable mode was more ambitious. Four runs of ten minutes each is disappointing.
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m on PS4 so nothing has changed with regards to settings. When I was doing the scenario yesterday, I was thinking it might be a bug because it looks so bad. It might be jumping to a lower LOD than it should, I don’t know. I haven’t driven anything else since I installed the Class 20 so don’t know if there’s something affecting other locos.
     
  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    And this is happening at slow speed.... even when you are walking about....? And you are on PS4 Pro, right...?

    If I buy the DLC (I am still undecided), I will let you know what I see.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  28. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This happens at all speeds and when the loco is stopped. I’ve seen it from external cameras, and from walking. Move an external camera a little distance away and the changes happen, or from a static camera 8 the changes happen as the loco gets close. I’m on standard PS4.
     
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  29. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    Hi all, I downloaded the Class 20 to my PS4 pro last night and was immediately shocked by the poor detail like washed out colours, fuzzy graphics and signals showing the wrong colours. Also very poor is the sound? I use high end headphones connected to my controller and have done for a long time with no sound issues until the Class 20. The main problem is within the cab were I couldn't get above 20% power before getting a very deep bassy vibration in my headphones to the point I had to stop the scenario. I even restarted my PS4 pro just to see if that sorted it but it didn't. Has anyone else experienced this and fixed it, if so please please let me know!
     
  30. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve noticed the very bad sound on PS4 cutting in and out others have reported. Hopefully this was tested on a PS4 and not just PC the ported over
     
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  31. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    Do you know how the sound was fixed? I am experiencing sound issues with the new class 20?
     
  32. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    Thank goodness you have experienced it as well as I thought it was just me? I use a PS4 pro and checked other locos to see if it was my hardware but all others work fine.
     
  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well, if it is the sort of sound bug/feature that could cause damage to your hearing or to your audio equipement (say... frequencies that just unluckily "run away.......") ........then they will have to fix it..... probably......:


    "Publisher’s Additional Quality Assurance Obligations. If SIE becomes aware of any material defect (such materiality to be determined by SIE in its reasonable discretion) with respect to a PlayStation Compatible Product, or if SIE becomes aware of any improper use of the Licensed Trademarks or SIE Materials, then Publisher shall, at no cost to SIE, promptly correct that material defect or improper use, to SIE’s commercially reasonable satisfaction, which may include, in SIE’s reasonable discretion, the recall and re-release of units of an affected PlayStation Compatible Product distributed on physical media, or publication of an update, upgrade or technical fix to an affected PlayStation Compatible Product. If any PlayStation Compatible Product creates any risk of loss or damage to any property or injury to any person, Publisher shall immediately take commercially reasonable steps, at Publisher’s sole liability and expense, to recall and remove that PlayStation Compatible Product from any affected channels of distribution."
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  34. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly.

    The impression that I get is that the DB BR 155 wasn't actually fixed.... There was a bug that made the sound on the DB BR 155 escalate above a threshold and break-off, whenever it entered tunnels on RSN.

    I think they just disabled the tunnels on RSN, so that the tunnels did not interact with the DB BR 155 soundscape. So tunnels then became like plain track, for the purpose of sound.

    But I don't actually know, for sure.
     
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  35. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    Probably?
     
  36. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Probably.
     
  37. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    Always the easy fix, eh?
     
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  38. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    To answer your earlier question (the "Probably?" one), we are still trying to extract a blood sample from the stone, here:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/what-is-the-official-line-on-tsw2020.23620/

    It has not yet been decided whether things in TSW 2020 content (like the Class 20) that might look/sound like "bugs" to players, are actually "features" that won't be developed or re-developed in TSW, after TSW2 launches......
     
  39. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Plastic Pal You don't half sound like our old buddy "THE BR155 SOUND BUG IS STILL THERE" lol Wait! Synthetic....Plastic hmmmmm
     
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  40. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    TinTin_57 - If it turns out that the Class 20 is broken. And you find it unbearable. Would that be okay with you?

    Would you want the Class 20 to get fixed? Or would it be okay with you if it was left completely broken...?
     
  41. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    I would like it to be fixed, I believe it is unfair for DTG to release a download unfinished.
     
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  42. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Has this been reported to DTG as an actual bug? Have you reported it - and if you did, did you get a response...?
     
  43. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I also have noticed the bad sound on PC
     
  44. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Not yet, but I shall be
     
  45. Toddy65997

    Toddy65997 New Member

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    How do you report a bug to them please?
     
  46. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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  47. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, watched that last night, a brilliant watch. I was born and grew up in BR Blue era so always known the wires being up on the WCML south of Crewe whenever we headed down to London. It was fantastic to see Euston and Birmingham in that 60's period and as you say, the Health & Safety!?! Well, erm..... no wonder the 1974 act came in!

    PS Thanks Plastic Pal for posting a link to the video's, will watch the rest later
     
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  48. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I have now bought this DLC because it has had good reviews from a lot of people that I trust.

    stujoy is quite correct about the LOD. The draw priority given to the upper part of the marker discs is extremely low - they appear/disappear at very short range - about 50m.... It doesn't matter whether the hinge script is set to open or closed - at a 50m radius the upper portion of the disc appears/disappears. It actually undraws itself as you move away... to 50m.... which surprised me....

    If the disc is open, then this makes the discs appear to get mis-shapen. If the disc is closed (so you'd see yellow on the back of the upper disc panel), then when the panel undraws itself it looks like a light in sunshine (because it exposes the white of the lower half of the disc, which doesn't undraw itself).

    The upper panel on the marker discs needs to be given a higher draw priority - I suggest someone takes a look at how the Class 40 marker discs were made for NTP, and get the settings from there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  49. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    You are quite right about the draw priority given to the marker discs. You can see the whole disc pop in at very short range in this video at 56:44 on the cab end of the rear loco:



    And you can see the effect that I have described to DTG Protagonist ...... very clearly here (at 11:46):

     
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  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this, I was beginning to think I was going mad, as nobody was seeing what I was seeing.

    The other parts that stand out as much as the discs to me are the buffers when well lit (the light rings around them almost disappear when at distance). Both these transitions happen at about 25yds away from the loco. There is also something changing inside the loco, a white triangle appears through the left front window, on the right as you look at it. These are all on the cab end of the loco.

    Having said that, this is the distance where shadows disappear on models which I think is adding to how dramatic and harsh the texture changes are looking, along with the number of things on the front of the class 20 all changing together making it stand out to me. So I was probably being a bit harsh with my initial assessment. But I’ll leave my post as it is because these were my first impressions and still stand as such and I do still find the changes to be worse than other train models.

    I too have used the class 40 to make a comparison and the LOD changes happen at the same distance but are not nearly as noticeable. The discs are flatter to the surface of the class 40 so the shadows disappearing doesn’t make as much of a dramatic change. The fan grills on the Class 40 become more transparent as you get further away, which makes the transition almost undetectable, whereas the fan grills on the loco roof become almost solid textures as you move away so you can’t see the fans below so my criticism of those textures remains the same.

    I’ll just have to get used to it all.
     
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