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Class 314 - Poor Internal Sound Mixing?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jun 20, 2021.

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  1. Yes

    58 vote(s)
    81.7%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    I’m currently having a lot of fun playing Glasgow Cathcart Circle and driving the 314, however does anyone think the interior and cab sounds are really poorly set up?

    When the cab window is closed, the 314 is literally silent. Now I’m no train engineer, however a unit of that age would not be that well insulted, especially at speed. Opening the window partially resolves that issue, but you are then faced with the wind noise, which drowns the motor sounds out.

    Another issue when in the cab is that the wipers are ridiculously loud, on both slow and fast settings. This makes it near impossible for me to enjoy a run in the rain, as all I can hear is the squeaky wipers.

    Finally, like with most trains in TSW, why does the horn sound so flat, with no echo? It sounds brilliant when in Glasgow Central, with the reverb and echo, but why wasn’t the horn set up like this outside of the station? I’m pretty sure UE4 provides the option for you, so you don’t have to edit it manually?

    The external sounds are nicely done, but these sounds should really be audible from the cab and interior. Both are far too well insulated, with the sounds muffled too much.
     
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  2. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    The horns on just about everything would benefit from a bit of reverb. The 101 for example sounds pretty bad but in the trainshed at Paddington, the reverb actually makes it sound almost decent.
     
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  3. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Active Member

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    My favorite horn is probably TGV and F7 at second place. Agree that the sounds inside 314 could be louder, the same with Bakerloo...
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  4. tschlossjohnson

    tschlossjohnson New Member

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    I second this! The horn (and the compressor I think?) used for the 314 is actually used from the Class 313 from Train Sim Classic from AP. I'd assume that's the case because AP supplied the sounds for the Class 313 for TSW? The sound mapping is somewhat off. Also the Class 314's never had Regen brakes activated (Not sure if they ever had Regen installed, but they certainly never used it!)
     
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  5. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Active Member

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    Yes, the sounds of the 314 with the windows closed aren't even closed to loud. But the problem is, will we even see it get adjusted?!!

    It's been almost 10 months, and STILL the 146 from MSB sounds awful. We have to wait for more than 10 months for something that WE PAIED FOR to get FIXED?!

    I appreciate the hard work from DTG staff, behind the scenes such as the artists and people we regularly see, like the protagonist himself. (awesome chap)
    But things like these make me loose respect for the people behind them. I still have hugs amounts of respect, but it's gradually decreasing. Day by day. Honestly, its just sad to see a game like TSW2, with so much potential, to be managed in this fashion.

    Shame on Dovetail Games! We can feel the company getting lazier. Oh wait! it already is!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
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  6. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For this I am not fussed about being reused from the 313, because I believe the compressor and horn sounds are identical between the 313 and 314 in real life anyway?

    The brake regen sounds should definitely not be sounding when braking. Also, there’s a distinct lack of brake squeal too when slowing down. Something which very apparent in real life when coming to a stop with the 313/314/315 507 & 508.
     
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  7. tschlossjohnson

    tschlossjohnson New Member

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    Very true. Only reason why I mentioned the horn is because I was baffled as to why they didn't use it from the 314/315 pack, but nothing huge.

    As to the brake squeal, I completely agree. Though that's something AP didn't include in their packs sadly. Those PEP's are known for their notorious brake squeal's... The only PEP's I know to use Regen are the 313's (Not often however) 507's and the 508's
     
  8. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for starting this thread. If I say there are sound issues with Class 314, I tend to get a bunch of people piling on and saying that it's all fine, and LOL, some of those poeple haven't even bought the DLC.... ;-O

    For me the selection of sounds used are fantastic (I especially love the squeak of the yaw damper - very very evocative of trains like that....). However:

    - the master level of the Cathcart/Class 314's simulation sounds is too low, which allows UI sounds like the "objective complete" sound to dominate... you have to increase the volume by 100% to hear everything and then the UI sounds are intolerable (I had barely noticed this sound before, but now it is extremely intrusive)
    - the windscreen wiper sound dominates everything, if you use it, so you just cannot run in the rain, ever

    Regarding your other issues, I never use the horn (so I have no opinion on it), and I always run everything with as many doors and windows open (so I have no idea what it sounds like with everything closed) - except for Bakerloo (windows are interlocked).... which also has the problem with the dominant windscreen wipers.
     
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  9. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I think the sounds outside need to be increased too. You don’t hear the train arriving until it is almost at the station and the sound drops off too soon as it leaves. The ambient sound remains too dominant when a train is in close proximity to you. If they can get the sound levels right, the awesomeness of Cathcart Circle will no doubt increase.
     
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  10. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Again, I've mentioned this in another thread - do I just have particularly good speakers or ears, or does it sound like the below video for everyone because they seem perfectly fine to me, even with the window closed? whether or not it's accurate I don't know, however.

    (Sorry it's at a jaunty angle)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I think the exterior sounds could be increased too. Regarding the short fade in and out sounds of the train, this is more of a TSW core audio issue as it seems a lot of trains are affected by this.
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It seems a lot louder in that video compared to when me and a lot of other users are experiencing. Although that probably isn’t the best example, because you aren’t using dedicated software recording, but instead are using a phone to record your speakers.
     
  13. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It definitely seems like the overall sounds of the 314 have been set too low. Even the AWS alerter seems too quiet.

    Lets just say it sounds far too insulated with the windows closed. There’s virtually no sound at all, which is obviously not right for a unit that old.
     
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  14. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I thought a phone would produce audio more accurate to whatI'm actually hearing (note in the video my laptop's fans are going too, I would't get that from screen recording with, say OBS)

    I'll do it again using proper screen recording.
     
  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not. You should never use a phone (which most likely has a weak microphone anyway) to record sounds from a PC. Even in normal cases, dedicated software recording is so much more better and accurate at recording sounds, as you don’t get background noises.
     
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  16. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Here's the screen recording version.
     
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  17. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, your external sounds with the window closed sound a lot louder than mine.
     
  18. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t get sound anywhere near that volume (PS5) unless I turn the TV volume up, at which point all the other sounds become too loud e.g. objective complete etc.
     
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  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Its the same with me on PC.
     
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You do have SFX up at 100% and Ambience at 0% which will alter the mix. There are no AWS sounds to compare in your video. We would ideally require an AWS warning and an AWS clear sound to really tell and the objective complete sound in relation to general ambience.

    For a good comparison to what others are experiencing it would need to be played with all audio settings at their default levels (including UI sounds for setting the scene) and a proper run with the windows open for part of it and the windows closed for part of it, and some external camera thrown in for that to be compared too.

    The sound should be well mixed and well balanced at the default settings for audio and tweaks to the levels should only be needed for slight preference differences by the players. Your settings are quite extreme, so it’s hard to tell.
     
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  21. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    In that case, can someone tell me what the defaults are?
    IIRC it's just all the sliders on maximum. I turned the UI sounds down because they were annoying me (note that only affects menus, and the ambient noise in the menu was annoying me, which is why I turned it off.
     
  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The default is everything at 100%, although you can turn menu/music UI sounds off if you wish.
     
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  23. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree on the wipers. Although there's definitely a possibility for those to be that loud IRL, they could be a bit less so in-game. Nothing like a 30-minute service with constant "BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM!"

    On the other hand, I think the wind sound with an open window is pretty well balanced, not deafening like usually.

    Overall I'd say the sounds might benefit from some mixing, but probably still are in the better half of what we have.
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The wiper sounds may be that loud in real life, but it seems greatly exaggerated due to all other sounds being virtually silent. This is where the issue of the sound mixing comes in - sounds aren’t equally balanced.

    The wind noise is nice for the feeling of speed, however I still think there should be louder motor sounds as well as the train ‘running’ sounds.
     
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  25. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Anyone (on PC) tried this in the GameUserSettings.ini?
    I have them set since day one and at least the "running sound missing" has never been an issue (for me)

    MasterSoundVolume=3.500000
    SFXSoundVolume=3.500000
    AmbienceSoundVolume=2.500000
    DialogueSoundVolume=1.500000
    ExternalAlertVolume=1.500000
    MenuSFXVolume=1.000000
     
  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’ve tried this in the past, however I found it made loud noises, such as wiper noises, even more unbearable. This applies to any other noises which are greatly louder than other sounds.

    The only real solution is for DTG to mix the sound levels properly.
     
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  27. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Right. I've tried it with audio levels on their default (all on maximum), and it made absolutely no difference for me, apart from making everything a bit louder.

    Can I ask if everyone posts their audio settings? Perhaps it has something to do with that?
     
  28. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I run the game with uncalibrated Headset (Razer Kraken 7.1) - in Windows my volume level is 50-55%.
    In Windows the "Windows Sonic for Headphones" is active with 38 L/R
    In the Razer Headset App I set the EQ to Techno and activated Bass Boost which gives me more "phatness" - but that is headset specific because the default settings are: flat

    Capture1.JPG Capture2.JPG Capture3.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  29. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely, If the driving coaches had to accept that sort of vibration in real life, then the body-shells would have gone into complete fatigue failure within a matter of months, and the units would have had to have been withdrawn within a year of being put into service.

    Also, they would have run out of drivers within the first week, and the local mental health services would have been completely overwhelmed.
     
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  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Widely exaggerated example but the fact still remains that the wiper sounds are too loud.

    Sometimes I think are sounds even tested in game? It doesn’t take a genius to realise that the sound mixing levels aren’t right. Unfortunately this evidently remains DTG’s weak spot.
     
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  31. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Active Member

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    It doesn't bother me. I like the sound and personally don't feel it is too loud that I have noticed. Maybe I just haven't paid that much attention to it.
     
  32. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I don't paricularly like the looping of the wiper sound. it sounds as if the wiper itself is either going too fast or too slow as it sounds to me like the end of the loop is being cut off by the start at times.
     
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  33. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Active Member

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    I agree with you, Cam.
     
  34. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I actually enjoy the sounds in the Class 314 very much. I think it sounds great, other than the way too loud windscreen wipers.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The magnet sensor isn't mounted on the front of the train, it's well back.
     
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  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame the sounds are too quiet, from what I remember on travelling on real trains was the noise, it adds to the experience. I know trains today are quieter but even so.
     
  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    For me they need to just turn the train sounds up a bit and they're sorted. The sounds are really like the real deal except too quiet.
     
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  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I could live with that. You just can't turn the volume up as that increases other sounds. Be great if they give the option that we could do it ourselves but I guess we would have to wait months for that.
     
  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think the sounds of the 314 itself are pretty good, though I do drive with the windows down. What's lacking, perhaps, are ambient sounds and the noise of passing AI trains, of which there are unfortunately too few.
     
  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I don't think actually there are too few. When I looked into it DTG have copied if not the precise timetable then at least the frequency of services on CC pretty accurately. The only traffic that's missing is at Glasgow Central, headed other places.

    And myself I think the ambient sounds are some of the nicest in TSW: birds, barking dogs, a football match.
     
  41. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but there's also a gap of at least an hour between some services on the Newton branch if the PIS is to be believed: 20210611171143_1.jpg
     
  42. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Member

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    This is due to one of the trains going back to the depot from Glasgow Central at 1255 and it does not come back into service until 5pm.
    Therefore there is a train missing on the Glasgow to Newton via Queens Park branch between 1-5pm.
    Mike.
     
  43. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think that all the devs at DtG only travel on trains with their swanky Apple AirPods in and don't really understand what all the fuss is about.
    I have mixed feelings about the cab audio of the 314 I certainly think that the AWS warning bell is far too quiet and I'm not sure if it's me but the track joint sounds as if it going from right to left on my speakers, definitely should be louder bogie run sounds in-cab and I think the wipers LM are prototypical looping issues aside, in other words, noisy in operation! It wouldn't be as intrusive if all the other sounds were upped a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
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  44. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I don't really think that's fair to say. The 314's sounds just need to be a little louder (mainly from the outside pov) and they are fine. I should know, I used to ride them at least once a week.
    Now I wonder why I used to have back pains all the time...
     
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  45. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I do think it is fair, the sounds are dismal in most if not all routes (Bakerloo, cough,) totally unrepresentative of the real world, I want to experience this sim in all things not just visual.
     
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  46. bescot

    bescot Active Member

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    It's probably about the best, along with 465 sound wise. All cab sound occlusion in TSW2 is a bit OTT making the cab quieter than it should be. I won't mention the preserved TSW1 DB classes as they are just broken. The main thing you hear from the cab of a second gen unit like the 314 is wind and rail noise. Even the class 150 diesel units are fairly quiet engine wise in the cab with the window closed as the engine is over 10m away and there's a thick bulkhead behind the driver's seat. The wind and rushing of wheels on the rail overwhelm every other sound. For a game though, it's nice to hear the engine or motors in the cab. Sounds are a huge part of why I love the railway.
     
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  47. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Remember that Dovetail haven't been able to go out and get sounds as much as in the past thanks to the Pandemic.

    So there is a lot less ability to go out with a sound crew and sort it out.

    To bring your post back into the context of the 314 - which is the thread you chose to comment on - the sounds are perfect, just too quiet. And as bescot says the 465 is up there too. Noticeably both newer releases.
     
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  48. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I disagree, sounds have "never" been a priority in any of their released sims, heard it and read myself from the horse's mouth.
    Not saying the 314 is crap sound-wise as the op stated he believes it to be poorly mixed, I agree.
    Plus you will find that nearly 90% of voters agree.
    Just noticed that you have edited my post above re the Bakerloo line? Was that not a valid point re sounds in general?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
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  49. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I personally think they just need to be louder - and that includes being heard when the window are shut as well as open.

    And unlike probably the majority of the voters - I practically spent years of my life on these trains, and I know what I'm talking about.

    The sounds just need to be louder in the cab and outside. It's that simple. I don't even know why I'm debating this.
     
  50. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    A train is a noisy thing whether you have traveled on a 314 156 150 etc etc for donkey's years doesn't change that fact, you do not have a monopoly on experience. You decided to comment on my post, fair enough we will just have to agree to disagree mate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
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