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PlayStation Class 47 (green) Broken

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by matjamca, Jan 31, 2021.

  1. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    The BR Class 47 (Green) is very broken in TSW 2.

    It’s incredibly difficult to maintain speed, the amps surge and drop out for no apparent reason causing unreliable acceleration and the brakes are quite aggressive or not aggressive enough. The sound of the locomotive is also extremely poor.

    When compared to the BR Class 47 (Blue) the two locomotives are night and day different to one another performance and quality wise.

    You can gauge just how broken the Class 47 (Green) is by playing the scenario ‘Preparation Work’ on West Somerset Railway.
     
  2. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I also find the BR Blue 47 difficult to be honest, compared to how it was before
     
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  3. ajwilson1889

    ajwilson1889 Member

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    The BR Blue is underpowered, try hauling a parcels service up the gradient out of Stalybridge. It should eat up that gradient like the Peak does yet it struggles to maintain 45mph
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I find it impossible to adhere to a NTP timetable in the 47; it accelerates like a slug in molasses
     
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  5. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the Blue one isn’t great either, but when compared to the Green one, it’s a million times better.

    Both need a lot of TLC. Fast.
     
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  6. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    At TrainSim-Adam - Has the Class 47 Green seen any love in the WSR preservation pass? Since it moved over to TSW 2, it doesn’t behave the same way, which is a major pity.
     
  7. TrainSim-Adam

    TrainSim-Adam Staff Member

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    Morning,
    I have looked into this on the basis that our WSR overhaul did not flag any concerns with the Class 47 functionality. It appears that a well known member of the community assisted us with the development of both the NTP and WSR versions of this locomotive and both are identical in setup. The only time they differed was prior to the release of TSW2 where the NTP version had more advanced development, but as part of the initial roll out of the Preserved Collection following TSW2 launch, the WSR version was upgraded to match the performance of the NTP one.

    One note I was given is that due to the implementation of 'tread' brakes on the Class 47, at lower speeds (typically experienced on the WSR) the brakes will 'bite' sooner and harder than if the train were stopping from a higher speed.

    So I have it on good authority that the WSR and NTP Class 47s are working as expected.

    Always happy for feedback though.
     
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  8. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply to the thread. I appreciate it.
     
  9. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is indeed the brakes that seem the most significantly changed.
     
  10. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just had a run with it on WSR. I’m still finding the power output is off. The amps still surge and drop and loco will speed up quickly or lose speed suddenly. Maybe I’m just not driving it properly.
     
  11. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    You should probably know how the power handle works on a Class 47. You have off which breaks the circuit, then the first position which is ON, in this position the Contactors close and the loco will start applying power, however the automatic load regulator will move to or remain in its lowest position, as such in the ON position you get constant (and low voltage). This is effectively a position for creeping along at low speeds and where you leave the handle before shutting off power entirely.

    The next position which does something occurs around 25% power, in this position the Load regulator is allowed to run up and try and keep the engine applying around 650HP. The time taken to run up and down can take up to 15 seconds depending on your speed, at around 25mph it will take very nearly 15 seconds to run all the way up for example, while when stationary it may take say 4 seconds. Between this position and the maximum position the power is then variable between 650hp and 2580hp, there will be a slight delay in changing hte position for the engine to change its RPM and the load regulator to sort itself out.

    Driving a loco with 2580hp at 25mph isn't easy. It will not react instantly and you need patient with it and let its do its thing, slamming it to full power and then slamming power shut at 25mph isn't going to work very well! Kind of have to think 15 seconds ahead of time what you want to do.

    Similarly you really don't have to be obsessive about maintaining exactly 25mph, a nice and fairly typical way to drive is to power up to 23 ish mph, ease off and let the speed reach 25mph then reduce power or shut off entirely, let the speed fall if on an uphill gradient to say 20mph (or lower if you want to thrash it a bit), then start applying power let the speed build then reduce again and just shuttle between 25 and 20mph, its a preserved railway nobody cares about timekeeping. Similarly think when braking, when going downhill as you approach 25mph, probably say 23mph and increasing put the brake to initial and give it time for the brakes to come on along the train and then let the speed drop down to 20mph, at which point return the handle to running and let the speed build up again, rinse repeat. The vacuum brake will take some time to respond, don't keep putting more and more brake on as when it does respond it will stop you very quickly and violently.
     
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  12. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    Train Sim World 2_20210727105725.jpg
     
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  13. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I must confess, I haven't driven the green 47 for a long time. The blue NTP version however is a favourite. It sounds much better than it used to, the only complaint I have is the complete lack of track noise. I really hope this can be added at some point, it would make it so much better.
     
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  14. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    It´s hard to be on time, but 2,5 minutes delay from Manchester to Leeds is, imho, acceptable. There was this f... red signal in Dewsbury ;-)
    Train Sim World 2_20210727221055.jpg
     
  15. Fitz

    Fitz Active Member

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    Same here, I love the 47 on NTP since they "fixed" it. As you say, the only issue is the lack of sounds in the cab.
     
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  16. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    The Blue 47 has a leaky air valve as it likes to apply its own brakes, you have to periodically release them.
     
  17. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I have had no problems with the brakes......as long as you are extremely careful not to put them into release, even for the briefest interval. If you do, it all goes to pot. Perhaps if the trigger wasn't so sensitive it might help, so that it didn't register as a command to release unless the trigger had been held for a few seconds.
     
  18. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    So that's what sets them off, thanks for the tip!
     
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  19. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

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    Hold on...Releasing the brakes makes them periodically re-apply? Well, isn't that just arse-backwards.
    So how do you actually release the brakes to move?
     
  20. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    You select the running position. I'm not an expert but release is only used to equalise brake pressure along the train in certain circumstances which I can't remember. You hold it in release for around ten seconds and and the pressure rises above normal. It should then return to normal if you don't touch the brakes for a couple of minutes. It doesn't work correctly on the 47 so the only remedy is to never use the release position. Hopefully someone better qualified will come along and explain better. I understand vacuum brakes, not so hot on air brakes.
     
  21. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

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    I'll have to remember this. Thanks
     
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  22. Alex Shelestov

    Alex Shelestov New Member

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    Any news about WSR Green class 47? Or it’s not a bug anymore?
    I just finished the preparation scenario and it was real tricky because of weird control behavior.
     
  23. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Member

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    You need to make the Brake continuity test. Overcharge the Pipe (Release Position) for about 30s to 1minute. After max. 4mins the Pressure should be back. From now the brakes works perfect. This must be done with air braked trains.
     
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  24. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Member

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    The usual procedure after entering a br loco is:

    - Automatic brake handle to Running
    - After the Pressure has raised you turn the key and move the lever to engine only
    - Enable AWS
    ....

    At this site you can find detailed BR Driving & Procedure Manuals about every type of Class:
    http://locodocs.co.uk/brmanuals/general1988.htm

    So about the brakes and behavior:

    I tested it right now in Trans Pennine. The Air Brakes are working as they should (incl. Brake Continuity Test). In Vacum Condition they do as well. Release is used usually to speed up the exhauster in vac conditions, so Pressure is built up faster to 21hg.

    My Opinion about WSR stock in generall:

    Well the Preservation crew has done a really nice job with extending timetable and add other Services (101 especially). My Problem starts with the WSR based stock, which shoud be adressed for next wsr upgrade:

    Class 09:
    As i mentioned in a different thread the cl09 is basicly a cl08 with a different type of gearbox to allow it run up to 25mph. So the ones used the cl. 08 in Trans Pennine & BR Freight will have noticed, that the entire loco is heavy detailed in features. You can switch from Air , Vac to Single engine with operating exhausters or not just to give it an example. Compared to it, the wsr cl09 is a lame joke. I dont like to drive it because there is no immersion to me.
    This details are the only reason i started to buy tsw2, else i could just stay with ts2021.

    Class 47:

    Except the not modeled vacuum Release valve im happy with this loco as it drives. For what both (the blue and the green) models should have same structure, the 47 green seems to use a different sound file. (You can even here it in the Timetable mode by switching those 2 variants). Here an example:

    Cl. 47 Blue on TPN: The Engine is roaring from accelerating and it feels like you drive a heavy train.
    Cl. 47 Green on TPN: Engine sounds the same low RPM all time and it feels just fake. (During Acceleration its a bit more, just for 2 seconds)

    Rant ;):

    So how hard would it be to use the sounds from the cl47 blue on the green one?! Now with this new simulator (TSW2) there is the Chance to use technology for upgrading stock and Addons efficiently.
    But DTG seems to choose another path and develop each route as a dlc for itself. With more dlcs & Core updates this is not to control anymore.

    Just read yesterday in Riesa Dresden there will be an upgraded type of loco (i think it was the br 146.2), where the older unupgraded loco still remains in older routes. I have no words to this..., with more routes and its stock well get a "different version salade" as ts2021.

    Obviously a Cl37/5 isnt the same as a Cl37/0, so features are Stockbased. But if the stock is Route based and we talk about the exact same br146.2 (Old and new version in 1 Sim) , this is taking a concering path.

    DTG, showed with some addons and routes, that they are well capable of doing high quality. I hope they keep that up in future and not lower the bar.
     
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  25. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Active Member

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    I agree. I think there will come a point when the preservation crew just won't be able to keep up retrofitting new features to all the old routes.
     

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