That's why I mentioned the upgrade pass. Better headlights (and perhaps some moonlight) would revitalize those.
Here’s some trends I noticed among classics in this thread: - Longer than average route, but not just for the sake of being long (like BML, but not KWG) - Includes branches and is more than just A to B - Diverse timetable with layers and multiple types of trains - Good and diverse scenery Trends among Duds: - Short route when it could’ve been longer (like original NEC, Luzern) - Route is A to B and nothing else - Timetable is not diverse and/or has no layers - Slow and boring (this is more subjective, but slow routes like WSR, Clinchfield, Cane Creek do tend to lack popularity among players)
Not much mention of Sand Patch Grade but, for me, it's still the flagship in terms of quality, lighting and rolling stock. It was the first and true classic.
That's sad to hear, since it seems like the people who play it tend to appreciate it. I thought it was wonderful, and it got plenty more good notices in the thread I started after first playing it. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/bravo-to-the-clinchfield-team.54053/ I guess the challenge might be getting people to give it a shot in the first place.
This is fun. Regarding CJP vs CRR, to me the improvements to dynamic braking in CJP, combined with the challenge of the steep downhill grade, put it over the top. The uphill climbs can be tedious but, thanks to the way services are set up, can also be avoided. The services between Barstow and Victorville offer the rare chance (in TSW) to drive American freight at speed without having to worry about grades, if you want. I would say the shunting services are better than in previous American DLC. There have also been some add-ons available since release. For CRR, although the Journey is probably the best in TSW, after that there's maybe not enough. There is scant opportunity to use most of the loaders along the line, and very few services in any case. The line in reality was built to such high standards that challenging grades are usually not an issue. There was never any add-ons. Although, still very good, but for me CJP edges ahead.
There's just too much missing from CJP from both the scenery and operational standpoint for me to put it anywhere near classic, not a dub but still extremely disappointing.
Well I have been to several diesel galas and have yet to see dirty blue diesel at one. Also, unless it has changed, when it first came out you would get a randomly numbered 47 in service mode and never North Star, I never got it anyway. Also the class 33 was the same, I never saw the actual preserved example. A minor point for most but it didn't seem very realistic. I really think that is where selectable layers would be a boon as you could almost make your own diesel gala up.
Indeed, for example, I don't like NTP or Tees, because I find the trains boring. But many people on the forum regard them as the "greatest" routes.
I am shocked in my opinion NTP is by far the best route as for once it is the actual timetable from 1983 and peaks are just hellfire.
Same here, personally really dislike the trains in them, I don't like any of the diesels pre 1980. My least liked routes of all the British ones I own.
Well in my case, they were before my time. So I don't have the nostalgia with them, and they don't have the charm that steam engines do.
To be fair, I haven't given the routes a proper go. This is just from initial impressions in the training missions, and a couple of passenger time tables. So I might actually really enjoy using them, like I did with the steam engines. Going to give the Class 37 a go, as aesthetically, that's the one I like the most lol. It doesn't help that the Class 37 tutorial is not able to be completed.
Fair enough, my favourite is the 45 and would highly recommend you give it a go with the sound turned up!
I'm very much a steam guy. Thats what I love as far as railways go. But I've been dipping more into the diesels one route at a time (much to the dismay of my dad who was a heritage fireman for years on what was a very much steam only line until very recently). I've found that the more I look into the diesel stock and the eras around TVL, NTP and the stock on WSR its become something I'm much more interested in and want to learn more about! I'll still always pick a steam engine but TSW has given me much more appreciation for the diesel stuff and have been watching a lot of videos about the stuff we have like the 31s, 45s etc and it makes the game so much more enjoyable
I think it would have needed to go to Derby for that. One of my criteria for considering a route as classic is that it made operational sense. PFR, for all we have come to love it, should not have abruptly ended at Ambergate. On the subject of duds, a slightly controversial nomination for Germany - MSB. I haven’t played this one nearly as much as other routes. Sits in the shadow of RSN and the other hilly routes that came out since. Tried starting a run on it last night but went back, much to my surprise, to Hamburg to Lubeck which is actually the sleeper hit of my recent acquisitions. Yes it should have gone on to Puttgarden and/or Travemunde but it’s nowhere near as flat or straight as I expected and you can get some sustained fast running. Not a classic but certainly no dud.
Interesting, msb is one of my favourites, a rare opportunity to manage a heavy freight train down a steep grade using the electric brake or bank a heavy train up, or worst case misjudge your climb and get stopped at a signal and have to hill start that thing, the 146 doesn’t do much for me, a bit sterile but love this one for freight. ruhr probably comes next for me with the layers particularly the shutter but then I’m totally biased there having built that layer!
Oh there’s nothing wrong with MSB Matt, it’s probably the fact the route is not that well known compared to the more famous German grades, ISTR something in the Black Forest between Ulm and Stuttgart, did that myself back in the early 80’s. Another of my journeys sat on those legendary hard plastic half seats in UIC compartment stock!
For me personally these are the classics: Sand Patch Grade, Great Western Express, Ruhr-Sieg Nord, Tees Valley Line, Peninsula Corridor(pre TSW3), East Coastway, Clinchfield Railroad, Boston Sprinter, Tharandter Rampe and South Eastern Highspeed. And the one dud from the routes I have played: Oakville Subdivision In term of what I deem a classic, I think of both how much I enjoyed playing them and how memorable their addition to the franchise was.
Classics for me: SEHS - even before the TSW3 extension and the extra layers etc, this was already pretty much my favourite route in the game. Interesting and varied timetable and a vast selection of scenarios. London Commuter - just an absolute monster of a route with an insane timetable. So many different runs to be be done on it that all feel completely different. NTP - Great locos particularly with the DLC and even though the scenario detail is looking a bit dated now, it’s just a great route with a real sense of time and place about it. TVL - as above really, though the scenery has held up better I feel. Lots of different sorts of services to do. Really hoping the possible JT Pacer might layer in. West Somerset - there seems to be not much love for this one, but I love the chilled out vibe and considering what an early route it was, it still looks incredible. Took my first visit here in real life last month having played it on TSW for years and have to say DTG absolutely nailed it.
I did regard Oakville in that vein at one point but after playing a bit more it grew on me, particularly the older loco fleet. It's another missed opportunity route really as it should have encompassed the Toronto Union to Niagara passenger ops - VIA Rail and Amtrak plus GO, subject to licencing of course.
Just input. There may be a few factors about it... I guess what I'm trying to say is I just didn't like "players" instead of "TSW players". TSW target audience - Fast paced, console, short sessions - it may not seem suitable. Most of the features aren't particularly suitable for routes like Sand Patch Grade or any other 100+ mile haul. Collecting bear carcasses? Stopping to fix road crossings? Stopping to wave the non-existent traffic while my train rolls by (10 minutes) then walk back to the cab (another 15). Selective breeding - When a subset of content dominates, it attracts people interested in it while others find their joy elsewhere. Blizzard games are a particularly blatant example for this. People interested in long hauls might just jump to play fitting TSC routes. Also, I tried to play TSW quite a few times but it never really hooked me. I'd be more immersed driving a procedural sounding 2008 SD40 on workshop Castle Rock. Behavior - I've often been told that train driving is the equivalent of watching paint dry. Unpack it, and it's possible that players who just enjoy driving long sessions in forests will be less communicative. If not for sharing screenshots, I wouldn't even be around these forums. Whereas commuter services (and beaches, sunshine and surfing) might attract players who just keep discussing 101th livery and drive joy from transporting people around.
I have been playing through the TVL Journeys at the moment. The dlc for the class 20 and the 31 which are some of my favourites at the moment. Admittedly the 20s sound got a little broke with tsw3 on xbox at least but I've still enjoyed playing through the journey! They add a bit more variation to the route which is nice! I've only just started the 31 but I'm loving it, real challenge getting used to braking with the big heavy cement train as they take ages to apply and ages to come off but I love the loco it looks and sounds great!
In my opinion, while there are many classic routes such as ECW, GWE, MSB, RSN, SKA, HRR, both Dresden routes etc which I still play a lot to this day, I would say that for a route to be deemed 'classic' then it has to be really special and offer long-term gameplay. Enter London Commuter and SEHS Extended (and even though mentioned above, possibly Riesa-Dresden too) - just everything is epic about these, whether the amount of services available (both long and short duration), route length, rolling stock/service variation, super-busy large stations, AI traffic etc. As mentioned, what these have most importantly is long-term gameplay; for instance, it's been almost two years since London Commuter yet I've still only managed to complete around 600 services - that's amazing value for money. Conversely, routes I don't play at all nowadays are routes like Cathcart - I like the 314 and the route itself, but it feels completely lifeless with an empty Glasgow Central. It's reasons like this why I've been frustrated with some TSW 3 routes like BCC and E-G (although I do actually still play these routes though ironically). I also don't like stuff like WSR due to it being too slow and a bit boring. I also tend not to play routes which have a boring, underwhelming timetable.
I got tired of Electrostars before the route released so I haven't played it much and it didn't really deliver on the rush hour focus in terms of passengers, but in terms of the timetable it obviously qualifies as a classic. It certainly is a route I should get back to. I was really disappointed by the route in it's launch state so I refunded it after an hour or so. I am sure it has improved since then, but it left a poor impression.
May as well join in Classics: GWE BML BCC SEHS ECW TVL SoS HAR BPE HRR DRA DCZ OSD CCL (Cathcart, not Cane Creek) CJP Duds: LIRR NYT (until timetable update) CCL (Cane Creek, not Cathcart) SPG HSC SKW EDN That's my quite extensive (shall I say), list of classic and dud routes within TSW3 at the moment
I think the heavy freight pack for NTP, with a 40 and 08, is the best, then the 31 for TVL and then the 20 for TVL but they are all great and I can truthfully recommend all of them highly.
Classics: BML & ECW - holy grail of TSW, amazing timetable, good variety between fast and stopping services, branches to Reigate, layers, Victoria and Clapham Jon, and East Croydon being the only large stations that doesn’t feel empty in TSW SEHS - absolutely amazing route, again a good balance between faster speed, and local commuters, a good mainline, with a branch for more pure high speed operation, and one for more regional, length being almost 60 miles, and a good basis for future routes KWG - a partial classic because it shows us DTG are capable of making long routes, but let down by its linear nature with no variety, would become a true classic if merged with the rest of the German route network GWE - our only true 125mph mainline in the UK BCC - best AC OHLE UK route Koln - Aachen - just like BML, how a mainline should be done Controversial but Munich to Augsburg because of nostalgia from TSC NYT (potential classic) - if the timetable and a few other bugs are fixed it has the potential to be the best US route we have NTP - great route, goes back to BR days which has some iconic locomotives Cathcart - best short route we have gotten in the game by far Dud MML - just speaks for itself, too short, too many bugs, timetable is awful Glossop - is alright, but just too short for me personally LIRR - self explanatory Edin-Glasgow - just so many issues with the route, and I didn’t enjoy it Bakerloo Line - WCML scenery ruins the line, the OHLE is inaccurate WCL - should have been done modern day and gone to Plymouth at least IOW - not really a route I enjoyed
100+ mile long haul journeys can work with TSW I believe, it just depends on the type of journey, whether it be a high speed fest, or a regional fest, it can work
Classics NTP- I'm biased as I live in the area but, a very scenic route which is also challenging with the class 101 and with a good amount of stock and made even better with the br freight pack. Cathcart Circle- A lot of service variation with services which are neither too short or long for me, some decent scenery outside of cathcart too. Midland mainline- A decent route with a decent amount of services which aren't too painful, and the amazing class 158 . GWE- A good amount of services, express, freight and stopper. With a good amount of trains. West Cornwall Local- Fairly Scenic, the services are very good if you have the BR freight pack. Duds BML- Controversial but it's quite overrated. Sure there's 1000+ services but that makes it run terribly near clapham jnct and even crash. Also only boring electrostars are included in the route, not even any railtours. Also it's 90mph for a very long time and very boring due to the electrostars not being challenging to drive. ECW- again fairly overrated, the scenery is quite bland and can get boring very quickly. Cross city- Hardly and service variation and most services are 1.5 hours long and seem so dragged out.
I'll only comment on UK because my German collection is full only of stuff I like, and I haven't seen nearly enough of the other stuff. Hardly play US content. "Classics" GWE - Three (then Brand New) trains, a half decent timetable and a unique setting. Not the best but still up there. NTP and TVL - Welcome to the BR Diesel Era, they said! Two well-made routes with great rolling stock. Only played NTP, however I've seen enough of TVL. ECW - The first, and now probably worst, Southeast England route. Lovely scenery, a fairly decent timetable. The 377 and 313 are fairly average though. GCC - the first Scottish route and I may be a little biased here, but it's a classic. The 314 turned out virtually perfect, the scenery on the route is very much like real life (especially, funny enough, if you play with rain on, as it hides some of the more limited parts away from the track) and was the first UK route to really offer a load of variety, ECW could count but not compared to Cathcart. BML - Thanks, Joe. Also, the 377 rework improves things so, so much. Love the 387. IOW2022 - This may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but IOW2022 is a classic. It's not long, and there isn't much to do. However, runs are fairly short (in terms of time) and the route, in terms of scenery, stations, is well done. The 484 is probably Rivet's best effort in the train department as well. It's a classic, though, because it's the only route to be a redevelopment of an old one, in a different time period (no, SEHS doesn't count). SEHS/SEHX - SEHS in TSW2 firmly fell under dud. Not because it was terrible, it wasn't, but because the scenery was shocking in most places and the timetable was depressingly dull. The 465 DLC saved it. Now that I think about it, it was terrible. TSW3's version, however, with the 465 bundled in, the improved 375 and 66 (also bundled in), and the overhauled timetable ft. Dartford and Ashford make this do the jump from dud to Classic. BCC - Good route, good timetable, good train. A bit lifeless around BNS but that's fine. PFR - Peak Forest is far better than SOS, scenery wise at least. Glossop - I had this in the "Inbetween" section, tipping into "Classics" because it fits what BCC had. Decent route with some nice, rural scenery, a good timetable and a good train (is just a rework of the BCC one). I've bumped it up to "classics" on those grounds. (The) Inbetween(ers) WSR - A bit slow paced. I think a lot of people would have it in classic, many in dud. Never played it. BKL - The new timetable saves it. SOS - too many past issues to have been classic, and I think Peak Forest stole it's chance to sneak in. EDN - the route itself is great, if you ask me, it's quite accurate in large parts. But, the 385 is average at worst, decent at best. MML - Still needs a few patches to be a classic. Duds IOW - It's like a beta version of IOW2022. Many things are the same, just worse. WCL - Scenery is off in many places, the 150 still needs a fair bit of work, and the timetable is shallow. This is not a Rivet bashing post, believe it or not.
So I can honestly say after giving TVL and NTP a proper go. While still disliking a lot of the Loco's, I do really like the Class 20 and 37.
