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Clinchfield Journey Help

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Ravi, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Hey y'all,

    I am trying to run the CRR Extra 3016 South - Southbound Coal scenario, but I am having trouble starting the train up the gradient and end up going backwards. Here are the steps I did,

    1. Insert Reverser Handle, set it to Forward
    1 a. Switch All subsystems on
    2. Mu-2A valve to Lead or Dead
    3. Brake cut out to cut in freight
    4. Selector to 1 (I also tried 3 and 4)
    5. Throttle to 3
    6. Release independent brake
    7. Release automatic brake (I tried the reverse too)

    The train slowly inches forward with the throttle at 3 and get to about 0.6 mph. But when I set the throttle to 4, the Amps drop from around 800-ish to 500-ish and the wheels start slipping and the train slides backwards. What am I doing wrong here?

    Appreciate any help to get me rolling.

    Edit: Added step 1.a
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  2. deans.ma

    deans.ma Member

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    Use the sander (located next to the window on the F7)

    Dean
     
  3. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I am using that liberally. The train won't move. I am not sure if I am missing some setup
     
  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You're increasing the throttle too early. That's overtorquing the wheels and generating slip. Keep it at 3 and be patient. Throttle up when the amps start to fall, not before.

    (Oh, and you may know this, but don't release the brakes until the ammeter is over 200)
     
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  5. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Ah ok. I will give this a shot. I thought once I had movement I can increase the throttle just a notch to get it moving fast. But alas, it was not to be.
     
  6. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Do not try the throttle above 3. Be very patient, it may take several minutes to start off with these long trains.
     
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  7. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Is 15-20 minutes usually normal? I tried it and the train is inching on at about 0.6 mph for around 20 minutes with the power at a constant 802 amps. It shows no signs of dropping.
     
  8. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Sand is your friend....
     
  9. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    So I am thinking only the first locomotive is pulling the entire train and the distributed power is not setup properly. How do I set it up for that? I did have the selector level set to 3 because there are 3 locos in the formation. I have verified the other 2 locos have the brakes cut out and the MU2A valve set to trail 26 and the subsystems are powered off.
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    1) The unit selector switch is ornamental. In -game it has no effect on anything

    2) Are these 3 locos all in one MU coupled together, or is one or more at the back of the train?
     
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    If you're on the SD40's then the transition lever must be in 1 to get normal power. 2 or 3 seems to give nothing.
     
  12. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    3 SD 40s. The configuration looks like this. Front Facing Coal Hopper-Front facing Coal Hopper-Front facing route. Is there a fuse or switch that needs to be set. I saw the control fuse was closed in all 3 locos. Should I open it in the coupled locos?
     
  13. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    I still like to have it set correctly anyway. A bit like a post-it note reminding me how many I've got on!
     
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You have run into the Great Mystery of Clinchfield: how to set up distributed power. The familiar way from SPG makes use of a button on the radio (simulating giving the helper drivers verbal instructions). But in Clinchfield, there's no such button!

    It does however answer why you can't get going: indeed, the game has you trying to do it with one engine alone while the others are dead weight.

    DTG ABSOLUTELY need to reveal the secret of DP lashups in Clinchfield. Are you listening, Matt? Sam? Adam? Nat? JD? Anyone?
     
  15. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Yeah. A manual would be super helpful. I guess I will give up for now until they release the manual. Maybe it has the answer to get me going.
     
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  16. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    It’s pretty sad that we are in the second generation of Tsw and they still haven’t solved the manual problem.
    I don’t want to watch an instructional video while I’m playing.
    Just a simple checklist would be fine.
    It doesn’t have be exhaustive, historical or graphically enhanced.
    A simple document would suffice listing starting and any operational quirks.
    Something we could print out or read on our phones, to keep to hand and refresh our memory’s during play.
     
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  17. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    I initially tried setting up the SD40 with my knowledge from SPG and OSD, and was having issues getting moving. In the end I just thought, sod it, and from then on, just set up my lead unit as per usual, and forget about the trailing units.

    I don't know what the result of this is, but as far as I can tell everything appears normal, in terms of power and exhaust fumes.

    Big shame, as I love the set up procedures of SPG and OSD.
     
  18. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I am running another scenario. CRR 126 - Southbound, which is also starting at 1.5% grade but with lower tonnage, 1854.7 kg. And the power delivery is really good. I was able to get to 4 mph in comparatively faster. This reinforces my suspicion about the previous locos not being setup properly. Granted the weight can be the issue too. The train that I was having issue with was 4500-ish tons and with the same 3 loco setup.
     
  19. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    From what I have gathered in this journey and tried myself, the 0.6 MPH is the most you can get out of it until the gradient (hopefully) drops. A lot of time for snacks, shower etc. (I am still going as of writing this... hour into the service, 1000 yards from the start... TSW2 is now just running in my background)

    I can safely say though the locos are all working. You can see through the window all three units have amps on the amp meter. So the problem here is basically "just" a combination of seriously underpowered train and horrible conditions. Whoever created this particular journey service, should be punished by streaming the whole run until they finish it. This one definitely hasn't been tested... not even started...
     
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    How much tonnage, and what traction? There ought to be for a route like CRR a minimum of 1.5 hp per ton. Three SD40s should pull a 4500-ton train with ease; three F7s haven't a prayer.
     
  21. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    4772 tons, 3 SD40s (also: 62 minutes in, grade change to 1.4%, 0,7 MPH reached!!!)
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Something's wrong. 1.89:1? That consist should pose little problem; certainly at less than 2% you should be able to accelerate to line speed within the first mile or so. The Florida Perishable weighs 4000 and four F7s (6000 hp) handle it just fine.

    Is the train triple-headed, or is one of the locos a tail?
     
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  23. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It is combined with snow, so that might be a problem as you can't get over notch 3, which is probably about 1000 Hp per loco.

    They're all in the front and all pulling.

    (Also Florida Perishable goes from Dante, so it is a downhill run)
     
  24. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I thought it was just me bumbling around. Glad to know its not just me. I do have a ticket that I raised as a sort of help. I will ask them if they can look at it as a problem when they respond back.
     
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  25. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Dave Mel this is the one we have been discussing today
     
  26. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    struggle.jpg
    It... is... done... the tiny part at the very beginning of the graph took basically the same time as the rest of the route... literally 80 minutes before you can go to notch 4... I do like a challenge, but damn... this is a bit too far. :D Anyway my proposal stands - whoever made it, should stream it. I don't want to be the only one suffering through this.
     
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  27. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Holy Shmoly.. You are a legend :D. I gave up after nearly 20 minutes yesterday.
     
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  28. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    i completed this one in 2.48 hours. once you get over the gradient and through the first tunnel you can power up and hit line speed all the rest of the way. it took me 1.20 hours to get up the gradient i had a wheelslip back down the hill trying to get into power 4, i also had a wheelslip in the tunnel because i thought the rails might have been dryer.
     
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  29. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    An additional comment on starting on a grade: watch the brake pipe pressure (BP) when releasing the brakes. At least for the SD40, it will go up very slow. As long at is below 75 (I think) do not expect your train to move at all. So you need a lot of patience.
     
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  30. thatsn0moon

    thatsn0moon New Member

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    Have you considered putting throttle on notch three with independent brake set on the 1st loco, then strolling down to the last loco and seeing if its amp gauge is showing the same value as your lead loco? This should settle whether or not DP is working.
     
  31. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    All three locos are showing amps, so the problem is not there. But as you can only go up to notch 3 before slipping, you getting about 800-1000 Hp out of each loco... which's seriously low for a 4800t train.
     
  32. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Just curious -- have you run the tutorial?
     
  33. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I have. But there is nothing there that suggests how to setup for MU operation. But it looks like this scenario itself relies on patience. As a couple have posted above, it takes around 80 minutes before the notch can be moved to 4 and get up to line speed.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All right, I did it. Ya'll are right, that's the way it is. Plenty of power, but you can't use it because there's simply no way to throttle up on the starting grade without wheelslip and losing it. Once you get up to the tunnel, you can add power- after nearly an hour getting there....

    I can't imagine DTG intended this. Maybe the service was designed in nice weather and then somebody thought "gee doing it in a snowstorm would look cool", without considering the effect on traction.

    OTOH, I could imagine the real-life CRR actually doing it! Doesn't matter how fast coal moves, only that it moves and eventually gets there. So they add an hour to the timetable, no big deal.

    (For most of the starting grade I hung out in the caboose, via the 3 camera)
     
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  35. Matzo

    Matzo Active Member

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    Foolishly just started this... I don't know what kind of monster would put this as the first service in the journey mode... 0.6 mph... 802 amps... Throttle 3... Terrified to apply more power for fear of wheelslip ... It'd be tense if it didn't take so long.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Step out on the front porch and enjoy the view....
     
  37. sandpvrr#8792

    sandpvrr#8792 New Member

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    Well thank goodness it isn't me! I skipped to the next scenario in the chapter which has similar conditions - similar power and 1/3rd the weight. The performance of the train is completely different (yes, 1/3rd the weight would do that) but I'm talking about hitting 15 MPH within 1000 feet - something is up with that scenario. Even at 3 times the weight, with the same traction, it should be possible to get it to at least 1 or 2 MPH within the first 1000 feet - I would think. Has anyone tried grabbling the two SD-40s on the other end of the yard and tagging them onto the rear? Or the head end?
     
  38. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I have added a support ticket to DTG. I humbly encourage all of you to do the same so they can look at it and get a fix in if possible. Appreciate all of you who took your time to help me with the problem.
     
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't power- you've got plenty- it's traction. Out of your 9000 horsepower you can use maybe 3000 before the wheels break loose.
    What two additional locos would bring you is less more power, than having 24 more driving wheels in contact with the rails. (This is the principle behind road slugs)
     
  40. thered14

    thered14 New Member

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    Hey, I completed the mission in a relatively normal timeframe and registered here to let you know how to do it without waiting like 2 hours till you can speed up. So the main problem is when the Amps go past 850 or so the wheels start slipping, the loco goes stupid and you are sliding backward, to throttle up stable you need the Amps to be around 750 but the Amps stay at 803 as you cant speed up.

    What I did:
    1. Setup your Loco as normal (as OP did) and set the throttle to 3
    2. When you reach 0,6 mph you switch the throttle to 4 and back to 3 in an interval of roughly 0.25-0.5 seconds (before the amps go past 840-850). Pressing A and D like an Idiot xD
    3. As you do this the Train speeds up and the overall Amps go lower in throttle position 3
    4. When you reach around 1,5 mph (or Amps are low enough) and the train doesn't get any faster with this trick you can set the throttle to a stable 4
    5. The train speeds up by itself till it reaches a Vmax for the available power
    6. When it doesn't get faster you repeat step 2-5, switching between throttle position 4 and 5 and 5 and 6
    7. Sounds much more complicated during writing lol
    8. When you can set the throttle to a stable 6 the gradience is lower and the train speeds up more by itself (without doing the trick)
    9. You can now set the throttle to 7 and 8 when the Amps go lower than 750

    EDIT: Hey there! As you can imagine, timing is very important during the startup process. I wanted to remind you that when you can set the throttle to a stable 4, 5, and 6 that you should save the game. For example: You are switching between 3 and 4 and the throttle is a bit too long at the 4th position the loco will wheel slip again. If you created a savegame you can start from there ^^

    Now, there are 2 Train crossings where you are supposed to stop.
    As soon as I passed the first yellow signal I lowered the speed to around 11-15 mph to let the train pass you before you have to stop.
    The second crossing has a gradience of 0,4%, startup is not a problem there.
    In conclusion, the startup is fucked up in this scenario but as soon as you reach throttle position 8 the rest goes normal. 20210411171824_1.jpg 20210411183020_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  41. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    ...and it doesn't change fast at all. :D
     
  42. dr1980

    dr1980 New Member

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    I'm in the same boat, I can't get any southbound SD40 trains moving...they just won't budge on the starting 1.5% grade. No problem with the F7 southbound, and I can get northbound SD40 trains moving reasonably quickly, but southbound seems like there's something off in terms of power/rail adhesion/grade.
     
  43. fabristunt

    fabristunt Active Member

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    It may all have to do with the way adhesion is simulated. That is rather poorly, plus in tsw it also rains underground. The rails aren't dry in tunnels, which is especially puzzling on the bakerloo line.
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Traction goes to hell in the snow in real life, so I'm not sure why you say "poorly"
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  45. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I made this run the same style (3/4/3/4...).
    Hope you had fewer stumbles than I did :D :D :D

    PS Fabulous scenario. Only for nerds.

    I thought so - snow and trains > link
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  46. thered14

    thered14 New Member

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    I created a savegame when I could set the throttle to 4 without wheel slipping. After saving I proceeded with wiggling between 4 and 5 and so on.
     
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  47. phillip.good

    phillip.good Member

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    3hours and 15.... and a paltry 4,565 points.... well there’s that one done! TICK!
     
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  48. thered14

    thered14 New Member

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    I made the startup again, recorded it and uploaded it to YouTube if visual assistance is needed
     
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  49. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Challenge. Fun. Interaction between us. So many good things for a seemingly pointless activity. Play hard, go pro :D
     
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  50. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I am going further throughout Chapter 2 of the CRR Journey and I like to ask... who the hell made it? You have 6 southbound runs (3 of them back to back... in winter... in darkness) and only 2 northbound (none of which is the Florida Perishable). Also, Southbound 126 is featured twice (hopefully the second one is not winter night again, haven't gotten there yet). With all the other chapters being the various turns this one is very poorly put together, lacking variety in conditions, directions and even featuring a duplicate service.
     
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