Core Update For Xb1, X1x And Series X|s

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by pinxtonpaws, Aug 5, 2021.

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  1. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    A lot of the conversation regarding the core update has been geared towards DFS and the Rush Hour expansion with very little discussed about anything else, so being as how this update is now at a stage where very little will change prior to it's release it might be a good time to put people's minds at rest by and explain *exactly* what each console should expect for year 2 of TSW.
    To make things real easy I've added a clip which shows TSW running at it's absolute worst:

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/boris-the-frog/video/141366296

    So, on a scale of 1-10 what levels of improvement should we expect for (a) rendering quality, (b) draw distances and (c) shadows on each console?

    Also, looking beyond Rush Hour, how exactly are DTG going to utilise the superior performance of Series X|S when releasing future addons? Will it be a case of two versions of the same route/train or just the exact same content for everyone...but with DFS enabled on X|S?

    I know there are many, many more questions that could be asked but my primary concern is how the game will look & perform until the next update...and having already tolerated two years worth of sub-standard visual quality (TSW2020 and TSW2 (year 1)) the very last thing I want is another year of minimal improvement.
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG (ie Matt) have already said they're basically releasing a version of each DLC for each console (and PC), so there will be a version for X, a version for S, a version for standard... each with it's own optimization and layer activation etc and I presume the parts off UE4.26 which benefit each will be tweaked as much as possible (or that DTG know about) so that it runs as well as they can get it on each
    Matt did say in a stream last week (on Epic release) that the better Xbox versions are running "almost at PC spec and at full speed"

    I would also imagine that this needs a "bedding in process" and will fall on Adam's team to do the updates as required (with associated QA delays) so your frustration may continue for some time
     
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  3. Rage607

    Rage607 Member

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    I would also like to know how my xbox one x version will benefit from the update.
    I've read that there will be an optimisation in ram usage, but I never had an issue with that. DFS will not come to X1X afaik.
    So maybe the draw distance will be better and that's it?
     
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  4. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    Thanks, I didn't know that. It was a worry that they were going to do the same 'one glove fits all' thing (similar to what currently happens with XB1/X1X) so that's definately a bonus knowing they're not.
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    One thing that UE4.26 allows that UE4.23 does not it "what platform am I running on?", so as it stands they can't do different versions that are so platform specific because there's no method of differentiation
     
  6. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    That’s not the way I understand it. I believe UE 4.23 could differentiate the platforms available at that time, hence TSW2 could support the mid-gen consoles (i.e. XBox One X, PS4 Pro), but obviously not future platforms. That is why you can get 4k on those. UE 4.26 works in exactly the same way, but is more up to date and therefore supports the latest next-gen consoles. When the next bunch of consoles eventually appear, DTG will have to upgrade the game engine again (UE 5.xx) to support those. That’s my understanding, please let me know if I am wrong!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen it can detect OS versions, but not which hardware platform it's running on
    My info from before was based on what Matt has said on stream previously
     
  8. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    They have stated on stream that they want the Xbox series X and Ps5 version to be on par with PC and how they don’t want to hold back the power of the new consoles because of the PS4 and Xbox one. I think we will see a drastic improvement in that case!
     
  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The thing I want to know about most is if the textures will be higher resolution on the new consoles. PC has higher resolution textures throughout, and larger download sizes to match, and I’d like to know if the new consoles are getting the same textures.
     
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  10. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    I really hope they are. I really hope DTG can rework some of the textures to make them less flat too. Flat textures are a big let down on the realism front.
     
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  11. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that it has been said that XBox Series X and PS5 will have almost the same level of textures etc that PC have.
    Series S consoles will be toned down a bit as they can't do 2k or 4K (max resolution 1440p).
     
  12. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    2k is 1440p, as far as monitors are concerned.
    Cinema "2k" is only 2048 x 1080, but the resolution most monitors labelled as 2k use is what is otherwise known as QHD: 2560 x 1440, the max output resolution of the Series S

    The terms are muddy as what's considered "HD" for working out the multipliers there is 720p, which is hardly considered HD by today's standards, but yeah, technically the Series S can do well above the 2048 x 1080 definition of "2k", though many games do not render at native 1440p, and it will often render at lower resolutions than that and upscale from anything from 960p to the 1296p it renders CP77 at.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  13. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Almost certainly. As someone who has had both new XBoxes for the better part of a year now I can confirm texture quality on most games that get dedicated Series X/S versions sees a massive leap on both consoles. Most noticeable on the Series S, as the Series X's backcompat mode will use the One X textures designed for 4k output for any game which already had One X support, while the Series S will be forced to use the base XBox One version in backcompat mode, meaning often using exceedingly poor quality textures.

    Once dedicated updates to games arrive on the scene, both consoles will generally be using the same quality textures from then on, but the Series S will be rendering the game at a lower output resolution and with fewer effects, and so will not look as sharp, and lessened shadows, reflections, raytracing effects, etc. will mean the textures lack the same depth they have on Series X.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
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  14. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    Judging by the lack of anything official regarding last gen upgrades I think it's safe to say the vast majority of TSW console gamers aren't going to be having much to look forward to when taking this game forward into the next 12 months. TBH though I wasn't really impressed with what I saw (and heard) during the Boston stream. Ok, so 60fps should be the norm on XSX and distance shadows are improved...but from what I understand shadows will still be drawing 'in your face' on bridges, walls and trackside objects as well as between the rails so things are still going to look pretty messy on recessed routes. The snow still looks like a textureless/motionless white paint job with the only obvious difference being the trees having no snow on them (and looking like they've just been placed on a white canvass) and assets still have that cardboard model railway look about them. No mention of building pop in or horizon draw distances either (will I still see the railway tracks drawing in on the hills of LVG? etc). I know it was a very low quality stream but that's how DTG wanted us to see the preview but we can only judge things on the merits of what we saw.

    Sadly, as time marches on this is looking more and more like a bits and pieces upgrade with very little for (in particular, last gen) gamers to look forward to. But hey, XB1/PS4 consoles are 1000 years old and incapable of anything (or so we're led to believe) so dashed hopes are all part and parcel of console gaming, aren't they?
    I suppose the good thing is that it's not long now before we'll all get to know exactly where we all stand and whilst I genuinely hope that things will be shiny and new for 2020 and beyond I kind of remember that the *only* noticeable enhancements consoles got with the last Unreal update was a splash of 4k for X1X. XB1 gamers got nothing.

    For me personally I'm probably at a point where a decision has to be made and my overall feeling is that if TSW2 (year 2) is still not pushing towards a standard of quality you'd expect from a game that's had multiple years of development behind it then MS Flight Sim more than meets levels of expectation and Farming sim returns in November so I'm more than happy to swop trains for tractors and planes.

    I don't particularly relish another year of, well, average....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2021
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  15. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Too bad the series s will not be given that much love when it realy runs great for example on Microsoft flight simulator
    What's the reasoning behind this ?
     
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  16. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where this idea among some players of it not getting any love comes from, just because most talk has been about the X and PS5

    The Series S should actually likely be seeing one of the most noticeable improvements of all - every single time a game gets a dedicated ninth gen console version, the Series S version is the largest leap in quality and performance by far, as it means going from the backcompat base XBox One version to no longer having those artificially imposed limits of having to run the baseline unmodified version designed for decade old hardware which has inbuilt lower FPS caps, poorer textures and effects, etc. to instead running a dedicated ninth gen version, just in a lower resolution with slightly reduced effect quality as compared to the Series X.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That would be the difference between a few thousand man hours costing probably a million quid to Microsoft investing over a billion into various tech for flight sim, and lest we forget almost all of flight sim is autogenerated by MS AI whereas TSW is still being built by hand for a lot of it
     
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  18. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Well, there we go, any and all speculation about Series S getting no love is well and truly out the window after that stream.

    Both ninth-gen XBox consoles using PC textures.
    4k60 on Series X
    Optional performance and quality modes on Series S, normally a feature only seen on Series X titles -
    4k30 (!!!! 4k on Series S) and 1080p60

    All layers on Series X and quite possibly also on Series S, pending testing
     
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  19. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    And of course for those concerned about last gen consoles - they can keep getting new content with the same compromises to textures, draw distance, layers, etc. that they've always had, and there's no reason to stop releasing content for them any time in the foreseeable future.
    Everyone wins.
     
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  20. Rage607

    Rage607 Member

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    Had there been any mention about the X1X getting a better draw distance or something else improved?
    And might there be a performance increase for last gen?
     
  21. trainsimfan94

    trainsimfan94 Member

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    nothing on ps5?? should be like series x
     
  22. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    No XB1X will be running at equivalent of low settings on the PC still. And no DFS. Also no layers on HMA still.
     
  23. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    The settings will be the same according to the stream. However given the minor hardware differences between the consoles there may be a slight variances in performance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Matt said yesterday's information was basically about Xbox but did say several times that the PS5 woudl be using the same settings as top flight Xbox, so equivalent to PC high graphics settings, running at 4K @ 60fps
     
  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Series X and PS5 are more or less identical hardware. You can expect very little variation between the two. Certainly not enough to change any of the settings.
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So the only reason for any required changes would be in the management or interface to those hardware items. Hopefully UE4.26 can alk to both equally (which would mean equal speed and power, and less audio issues in Xbox)
     
  27. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Cheers gottà check that latest stream :)
     
  28. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I've had confirmation now that the PS5 is running the same settings as the XSX - but since I don't have a PS5 Dev Kit I can't comment on how it plays (no bad reports from those who do have them in the team either however), my expectation is basically equivalent to the XSX as others have said. The XSX comes in at 12 teraflops processing, and the PS5 at around 10 - it's not that big of a difference I'd expect to make any notable difference in how it plays :)
     
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  29. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't there be more on the Xbox One X?It has enough memory.
     
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  30. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    You do realize the new consoles have almost 3 times the power and memory than the Xbox one X.

    And you do realize Microsoft has a policy that games produced for the One must be able to work for all 3 versions. Your not allowed to make a separate version, and in all honesty why would they since the Xbox One X was discontinued last year.

    They only make the XB1S now since 2020.

    Also no matter how powerful you think the One X is it not as strong as a $2000.00 PC. As Matt said another thread the Series X runs the game better than his PC.


    https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/16/21327330/microsoft-xbox-one-x-s-digital-edition-discontinued

    https://www.techradar.com/news/xbox-series-x-vs-xbox-one-x
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  31. JazzyGeofferz

    JazzyGeofferz Member

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    Hopefully after the update it takes less than the 5 minutes it feels like it takes to load on original XBox One, and the crashes such as coming into Koln on some SKA services, Miles Platting (which was never completely dealt with) and being able to use livery editor for more than an hour without crashing back to the home screen.
     
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  32. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I saw in your powerpoint during the roadmap stream that the next gen consoles run at the equivalent of PC 'high' settings. Is there any reason they don't run at the equivalent of 'ultra'? Would this result in an unacceptable drop in framerate?
     
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  33. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I am not sure why they don't run at Ultra tbh - and it's something I'm going to get the team to look into once we've got this out. I manually poked in the various changes to make it ultra, and a) no real framerate difference i could see, and b) no real visual difference either frankly, couple of buildings appeared in the distance and a minor shadow difference was about it. So, i'm not too bothered for right now - but if only to be able to say it's running at Ultra, I want to ask the team to at least look into it and benchmark it for a potential future update. No promises. Usual yadda yadda.

    Xbox One X is a slightly different ballgame because there are rules from Microsoft that say Xbox One and Xbox One X games must deliver the same game and can only be enhanced through more detail graphics and the like (which we do via 4K output on the One X). We don't have any plans to adjust what the One X is getting.
     
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  34. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Is the Trees flickering fixed on Console with the unreal engine?
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe tonight's stream is going to be from a console so we shall see in a few hours
     
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  36. Rage607

    Rage607 Member

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    Do X1X (and Xbox one) benefit at all from this update in terms of performance or graphics?
    This is not meant in a bad way. I know that these consoles are mostly at their limits and an engine update has other benefits, too.
    It's just out of curiosity, as I am unable to get a series X.
     
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  37. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    There will be no changes to settings on current-gen consoles. That doesn’t rule out of course any secondary benefits the core engine update may bring, such as stability, bug fixes etc.
     
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  38. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't the One X allow a similar graphics setting as on the Series S?
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If what the people above are saying then this is a Microsoft policy issue rather than a "what can the hardware do?" issue.
    If MS say that the One X and the One must run the same then the limitation is the lower hardware capability of the older console irrespective of what the newer console can do
     
  40. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Matt says that the restrictions are related to content.But the graphics can be improved. They're doing it over 4k output, but I feel like you could do more in all aspects. There is enough memory, even a bit more than on the Series S. And Series S and One X are on about the same performance level.
     
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  41. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It's not just the amount of memory though, the memory in the Series S is GDDR6 which is at least 50% faster than the GDDR5 in the One X.
     
  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    My experience is on PC but I think it's comparable to next gen. I used to run at Ultra settings at 1440p and 60+ fps. Now I play at High settings at 4k and 60 fps and I honestly see no difference graphically, except for what 4k can do of course. Those with keener eyesight might disagree, but I don't think I've lost any detail going from Ultra to High. So next gen is getting an excellent graphical display, really at PC level.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  43. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Today is Xbox Series X Stream with 4K UHD TV correct?
     
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  44. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'm not streaming at 4K, so no - nobody has the bandwidth to stream at 4K yet afaik :)

    I'll be running it on Xbox Series X, it'll be outputting 4K to my TV yes, but that is then downsampled to 1080p to go into the capture card and then the stream will be 1080p. Performance wise though you can be sure it's pumping a 4K image out even if I can't stream it at that :)

    I'll ask nat to remind me to put the FPS counter on too.
     
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  45. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Active Member

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    2K streaming is viable, I've watched GametechUK do a few, so if you were able to at some point, I'm sure that it would be appreciated by those watching on a 4K screen at least.
     
  46. madda253

    madda253 Member

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    Could I ask as well if the draw distance has been increased on series X?
     
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  47. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Yes they said on the stream it does up to PC high levels. So basically on the scale we have been used to 0.45 distance setting. That will be increased to 0.80 rating. The highest possible is 1.0.

    So we should see a significant increase.
     
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  48. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Having been messing about with Flight Simulator on Xbox, where interestingly both mouse and keyboard are supported, I am rather hoping that DTG will implemented mouse support in TSW2 for consoles (keyboards work already). Even my wireless 2.4 GHz Corsair keyboard and mouse work when I plug the dongles into the back of the Series X.
     
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  49. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Is this the nativ Series X Version or the One Version on Series X?
     
  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Do you know if the mouse support is native (ie works in everything) or whether FS has a mouse driver built in?
     
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