Upcoming Release Db Br 101 ‘expert’ - Coming Soon!

You're complaining that a german locomotive is in... german?

 

Have they confirmed this on stream?

 

Yes, they’re waiting for DTG to finish it before they add it

 

yes for the moment but it come soon about the next BR 101 Expert update it get a lot of new things in the future

 

Well, I’m not 100% sure about buying this, as I thoguht earlier, there is a lot of clicking on in cab computers and PZB computer that would be a really frustrating with aimimg on them on Dualsense on PS5 and don’t know if all procedures can be managed on time. If DTG’s not bringing PS players mouse support for purposes of this DLC then idk if ever.

 

Well, this hundred-minute presentation was good enough to make me not buy this one. Thanks On the plus side, the sounds are very good and the cabcar. Lukas, don't stress so much, the Vectron has the same "problem" with the brake. There a thread where this was discussed with other players as to exactly why this was happening. But I can't find it. If you put it in the overcharge position too many times, that's what happens, it's only supposed to be used when the brake is stuck, if I understand correctly.
DTG Lukas

 

Well, then go for a bike ride.

 

For users they can German i have the real BR101 Richtlinie „Triebfahrzeuge bedienen“ Baureihe 101 -493.0101 Gesamtausgabe- Bekannt-gabe1
This is the German Manual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17dvUF2i8KQXwEJ2xvw_ePI6F0pWU8A9V/view?usp=drivesdk

I have Download it from a Archive website and set it to a PDF to make it easier to read. This is the manual where Lukas talkt about on the stream.

**Not the game version but the real DB driver version****

 

...Jan is from DTG.

 

and Lukas too

 

In some limited ways. For example you can drain the battery and find yourself in a bit of a bind if you have no way of raising a pantograph, closing the MCB and enabling the train line.

 

For something this complex, some localisation would not go amiss. Otherwise the product is going to cause expensive grief for non German speakers who might otherwise like to try it.

 

That is what the manual is there for. It will be organised by chapters, and the faults section itself will be organised by fault IDs. I tried to compile it as much as possible to simplify the search for the solution to a fault.

 

The manual is the translator in this case but yeah for non German people or the one they can't read German this is a difficult one

 

The last thing you want to be doing though is Alt Tabbing or trying to view the manual copied across to an iPad or similar while fault finding.

To misqote the famous line from the Little Britain TV series, "It's a German train for German people."

Nevertheless, those indulging - enjoy.

 

Why not?! I put it on my Galaxy Tab S9 Ultra so that i can speak but yeah i can read German very easy so for me no big deal. I'm not German but Dutch here in the Netherlands is learning German very normal

 

That's because "Dutch" comes from "Deutsch". We're both Teutons.

 

With the difference, that this isn't just a simple loco. It has features, which no previous loco in TSW had! This has to be kept in mind when moaning about the price!

 

It is a crazy analogy anyway! Comparing food which is gone as soon as you eat it to a piece of DLC which has possibly taken months and thousands of hours to make and will still be usable for years to come.

 

You're normally very vocal on the forums if something isn't true to life as it should be.
Now you want to have a fictional translation in the loco.
And I remember earlier you asked for artificial loco sounds on the cab car.
With all respect and I don't mean it in a way of personally attacking you, but I think your criticism is completely invalid.

 

It’s annoying because mouses work fine on PS5, all they need to do is enable it. Mouse works on Xbox fine as well.

 

The Expert Br101 is very well done, now we need an Expert ICE 2/4 or T next

 

If you want to complain, you can call the BoardBistro on the Br101 (displayed in the Stream)

 

It’s nice DLC but the fact how frustrating the gameplay would be on PS5 (where you can’t use mouse, not becouse PS5 but game dont allows it!) where you have to aim with joysticks which is sometimes pain even in “basic locos”, and in Expert 101 every one click on board computers, PZB computer… After watching preview stream I don’t think I’am going for this.

 

That’s why we need PSVR support, to give us players real live frustration, just like real DB drivers feel when they get a “Störung,” hahaha

 

It’s a good point, all I can say is turn your controller sensitivity way down in the ingame settings. It helps me handle the 385’s TMS, but on the downside you’ll be looking around in slow motion

Also, mouse works fine in so many console games, I got tired of asking why it’s not enabled in TSW. I never get an answer.

 

After checking out tonight’s stream I can confidently say this content is not worth the asking price, and I will not be buying it. I hope whoever picks it up finds some enjoyment with it.

 

Same. I really did go into it with an open mind, I was pretty excited for an “expert” level locomotive. Probably my most desired release when it was announced.

But as someone who only plays TT mode I don’t think this adds anything for me. Basically I get to calculate my braking power and then troubleshoot the occasional fault, which I’ll always need to consult a manual for since I don’t know a lick of German.

I’ll probably watch some more streams on this because I really wanted to love this but it just doesn’t look like it’s for the TT only player.

Some people are going to buy this right away and love it though and that’s great for them. Maybe I’ll come around idk

 

Yeah, that’s going to be an issue for us non German speaking folk.
It would get very annoying for me though to have to consult a manual for everything I didn’t understand. In fact I don’t think I’ve ever needed a manual for anything on this game. I know people were struggling with LIRR when that launched, but luckily I picked that route up very quickly. It’s still one of my favourites to play.

Maybe I’m biased because it’s not a loco from my own country (UK). I still don’t see myself paying full route price for any loco though, as like you I prefer TT mode. I just want to load up the game and drive a train, I don’t certainly don’t want to be frustrated and helpless. This is what this level of immersive brings to the table.
I still can’t warrant the price though and people will argue that you’re paying for a development time. I get that, but for example. An indie horror game I picked up recently on steam which took a team of three individuals over 2 years to make sells for roughly £8, and then you compare this locos price point. It’s insane.
I honestly think DTG shot themselves in the foot charging their customers this much and it’s anti customer not to give some form of discount to people who already own the original BR101.

 

"Troubleshooting the occasional fault" is entirely up to you. Keep in mind that what this brings is an unexpected element to timetable mode, something that a lot of players have requested as they do not necessarily like driving full speed all the way with all greens.
Several of the faults will severely alter the way you have to drive the train, such as a loss of power because of a traction motor failure, reduced brake performance and AFB failure or even monitoring the oil temperature or brake gauge during your drive because you have to act at a certain point.

If you simply like driving on a perfect day, then perhaps this isn't for you, but if you want to have an unexpected factor in your drive, that is realistic above all, or at least borderline realistic if you tuned the chaos factor above the real average, then I'd invite you to reconsider, or yes, watching some streams.

The usage of a manual is also a realistic thing, though granted not *the best* as we're talking about using the game and a PDF reader, but for a real driver, that's equivalent to using a handbook. I have taken special care to use Word's features to make navigation with a PDF reader as easy as possible as well as trying sectioning the fault subchapters well for you to make use of it as easily as possible.

I hope that no matter if you end up buying it or not, it will still be fun to witness what this loco and cab-car can do.

 

Don’t get me wrong, the unexpected factor is extremely welcome. So many of us have been asking for random events for a long time. This sort of solves that problem, but only for one locomotive, which nullifies the effect it has on the broader game.

I also want to see that the fault frequency works as intended. Guy had to jump out of his seat to cut a breaker to make a fault, because the game would not initiate one for a while even with the frequency at like 88. Will watch closely for feedback over the first few months after release.

Regarding manuals, yes these are realistic, and I’m not opposed (I’ve posted in threads before about wanting more manuals) but in this case I still prefer to know what the words on the screen mean. Skill issue, really, I’m just not good at German. But if this were in English, I wouldn’t have to consult the manual for every little screen and/or word. Like I’m sure it’s probably a requirement for drivers of these in Germany to be able to read German, I would definitely not be hired

 

I did not get to watch the Live stream, but I did watch the Full replay, and in all honesty, it was cringe-worthy, it felt like a lot of fumbling around, and the chaos factor did not completely work as designed. This was worked on for 1 year / 12 months, and it's still not completely ready for prime time, they will have to continue making it work with Patches, as stated in the replay I watched, and at one point they talked in German so the none german speaking viewers did know what they were talking about, why?

This was slapped together haphazardly with the BR 101 Drive unable to make the live steam due to the real-world job, this could have been planned better, and now maybe the 101 DRive got called in to run an unplanned shift. We don't know why the DR 101 Driver was not there. And again it's on Three Scenarios three routes to start with and more in time? with Patches, even the suspension physics is not there on release in 7 days as of 01-08-2024, they clearly stated it's still a work in progress but will be released at $39.99 + Tax US on 08-08-2024, unless there is some delay.

And as others have stated, having to read a manual and have it on as the train is driven for the non-German speaking gamers, will be a hassle, reading the manual is one thing but having to understand everything on the screens, as the so-called faults happen. There are plenty of trains in the game that are made and used in Germany, I already use Google Glass to get an understanding of what I can as best I can because the little popups don't always give the info needed. It will be interesting to see how well it goes.

 

I'm very afraid that without a translation in English I can't understand what I have to do...
It's obviously it's a German DLC and it's normal have it in that language but I think it will be very hard understand all, especially during the advance setting required.
I'm not sure to buy it now......

 

There’s a difference between getting the sounds right and not being able to understand what on earth you are supposed to be doing. My previous comments about buffing sounds to be more entertaining have a parallel here. If I want to be entertained fault finding, then at the minimum give some tool tips.

DTG and by extension their partners pride themselves on their policies of diversity and accessibility which ought to extend to language. Obviously they can’t support every language but as English is still regarded as the international “common tongue” of commerce and where two parties do not speak each others language. I’m all for authenticity but what happens when the next pro item is Russian (unlikely I know) with everything in Cyrillic or Japanese without anglicisation of the Kanji? A parallel here might be the S25 Heart Of Berlin in TSC where the creators provided a scenario which explains the various German radio broadcasts to allow the player to carry out station duties authentically.

And before anyone bleats, I’m not some Reform UK parochial fanatic wearing the stereotypical knotted handkerchief on my head, insisting “Johnny Foreigner speaks bloody English”. Over the years I’ve actually taken on the challenge of understanding and using the different sims from around the world, long before we had the convenience of Google Translate or the superb Google Glass. Simulatore de Treno - all in Italian, the original EEP, translating the manual one paragraph at a time from a German to English dictionary. Zusi 2 when there was barely any English support. And the grand mother of all - the first two or three Densha de Go games with no compromise at all, everything in spoken Japanese or Kanji, not even Romanji.

However TSW is an international product on sale to an international audience and the content produced, IMHO, needs to reflect that. Even Ongakukan with their Japanese video clip driving games alternate on on screen information between Kanji and English as they know people outside Japan are also interested in driving their product.

 

Genuinely amazing.....

There's this constant current of things aren't realistic etc here.

The moment the simulation, and complexity comes everyone is life rafts on, swimming in other direction.

Peculiar bunch

 

If that was aimed at my ramblings above, as a point of order and tl:dr…
1. I’m all in favour of more complex add ons provided:
a. They don’t sell for a totally outrageous price.
b. Due consideration is given to accessibility and ease of use for those who do not speak the native language of the prototype.

 

watched the stream, and omg ... I am so going to read the hell out of the manual, as it looks like you wont even be able to properly start the loco without reading it ... and the fault he got in the latter half of the stream, like, oh geezus - I still think he forgot to put the loco in full application and release it in the cab car, but he chose another solution, which was like having to release brakes on all carriages, diagnostics... like, damn... I got a lot of learning ahead of me before I even buy the DLC

 

OldVern
I get what you mean. Still, in the case of an expert loco i'd say realism > playability.

Also there is a manual with english translation. Also in reality if you loco has a fault you look up in the (digital) manual to locate the fault. That's completely normal.
So it's not too much to ask for. The devs wrote a 100 page long manual not to be ignored.

 

This!

I thought it's nice have the possibility to translate the word on the screen in English....
Or maybe can we get a fully detailed manual (in English obviously) with a lot of pictures that shows what press on the screen, step by step, to recognize exactly what we still doing.

With the editor I still terminating my Italian signal system and I know anyone outside Italy never build an Italian line but I'm translating the whole manual in English too because, if one day someone want try it, then can be do easily (with a lot of examples on how to read the signal and not only how to place it on the track).

 

I‘m by no means fluent in German, but I‘m ok with day to day stuff, definitely not technical stuff though. I‘m glad it’s not translated to English - Though maybe it would have been possible to add multiple language support to the screens - My car satnav is German and yells at me in German, but I could switch it if I wanted to. After a few hours of play I‘ll soon remember what things are. I also like the idea of referring to the manual for trouble shooting. For me that is part of the experience.

On a different subject. I really do think hey should start pre recording showcase events such as this. With a live Q and A. The last few launch streams have been quite painful to watch in my opinion. It’s funny to watch mistakes in a let’s play type stream, but in a preview it really needs to be better organised.

 

Succinctly, no.

Just general impression from reading /watching too much

But , to promote dialogue. I appreciate your views. My personal take on it is that there's probably been a similar amount of costed time to a route. If i've interpreted correct, a normal loco takes a few months, this took a year to do.

Regarding accessibility, yeah, to some point I'm with you there but then people will say its not expert as the language has been shifted. We've also asked for manuals for ages (never been a mention about multiple devices being needed) and now we have a decent one there's concern about flipping between devices etc.

Just seems a bit damned if they do, damned if they do, never win. Somewhere the line is drawn and it will catch some and not others.

 

If I understand it right, each fault is identified by a unique number, which is shown on the MFD and should therfore be easily found in the manual. I have only seen the stream myself, so am unsure how this will feel in game, however, I would believe that in case of a fault you are very likely to pull out the manual anyway... As you have seen on the stream, it would have been wise to do that in any case...

 

Ok in this case it's better than what I'm expected.
I'm very curious about the manual, hope they can share it separately from the loco, to watch it before any chance to buy the loco

 

Personally. I think its going to be chaos (as in keeping to timetables). I will most likely be sat there and I'll hear German, see German, pull google translate out, pull the guide out, press many buttons, take a picture in photomode, pop to fridge and then come back and arrive 30 mins late.

I'll liken it to my first time VR racing, I suspect an assault on the senses which will be a buzz as you're going to have to act on the fly. It's going to be like learning PZB on "ultra mode"

I'm looking forward to how it will make you be on edge whilst you're driving

 

Pretty sure they said on the Stream that they would release the manual in advance, so that we could read it. Manuals are normally downloadable from Steam without buying the product. Not sure how console users would get it though. Maybe they‘ll also link it within an article.

 

This is good touch! It also a good idea to publish a copy here for the console player if they can't download it in advance

 

Here are some more details on the manual from the guy writing it:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/br101-expert-some-clarification.83254/page-2#post-870311

 

Google Glass (I think it’s called) is actually quite innovative. Just go to it on the tablet, it views the monitor or TV screen through the camera and translates what it sees. Even works on kanji and Cyrillic.

Edit: Going back through some of the questions and setting aside price, did they answer on stream regarding the robustness of the loco to survive the save game process and reload in a reasonably useable state? Without having to do as with the TSC AP Class 40 and jump around between cabs putting battery switches and various AWS levers back in?

 

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on the manual, there won't be any scrolling through searching on a tablet though, it will be printed and thrown in an oil smudged folder for that added sense of realism.

 

It is strange that no one here paid attention to the fact that the price could be set not by the developers, but by the PUBLISHER (Focus)