Upcoming Release Db Br 101 ‘expert’ - Coming Soon!

I did not see anything about save games nor did I hear them talk about it.

 

That is correct! To be more precise, in the BR101, you have faults created by a circuit breaker tripping and also some internault faults that will send a unique message on the screen.
There are two types of circuit breakers, LSS which are normal Low Voltage Circuit Breakers and MSS, which are Motor Protection Breakers and support a higher voltage. Those two + the few unique messages are what I mainly used to separate the different parts of the Fault and Failures chapter on the BR101. I'm also gonna make sure that if a screen message can have several IDs, I will classify them by numerical order, to hopefully be a bit easier to find, as I made sure to combine IDs that resulted in a similar message to both save space and make it a lot easier to find the one that is currently affecting the loco.

 

So it was stated on stream that it should release by early next week. I of course will try as much as possible to make sure it is finished this week-end, I have made good progress on the formatting, so I'm confident that as I get the last chapter I'm missing ready, it will be exactly what you need to drive this loco.

 

At what time stamp in the video did they say this, I heard them say something about TSG not getting paid what they should if a discount was to be had for all who own the BR 101 now.

I hate auto-correct.

 

This wasn't stated on Stream. It was however stated by DTG themselves that this acquisition from Focus did however not result in any loss of independence in their operations.

 

Jumped in on the stream where they were trying to get the random event thing going but didn't seem to work, even when cranked up to 88%. Then had to leave. Haven't checked the stream ending, but did it work in the end? That's a big selling point for me.

 

At 1:38:00 they talked about the Discount and TSG.

 

They did fumble through the fault and got the train moving, after bleeding the brake pipes of overpressure or something like that on each car that is.

 

I don’t know if the issue is complexity? This isn’t a study level airplane. If anything, idk why I am surprised at how low the level of complexity in trains are in comparison to airplanes. I went into this with so much hype and now I’m kinda like “this is it?”

The complexity in TT mode is basically down to referring to a manual to clear a fault here and there. And to pause the game to translate stuff that’s popping up on the display. I guess that’s what’s going to make me an expert. I’m just trying to work out exactly what that’s worth to me. I don’t know if it’s worth more than double what I paid for the original 101, which is sad because the devs did 100x more work.

But then again people whined about the SD-70 brakes taking “too long” to release and the new LIRR safety systems, so maybe it is about complexity for some.

The whole language barrier + manual thing I can probably work around, especially as I pick up on certain words.

But I just need to see how this actually plays out, because at double the price, I want to see if it has double the impact on my gameplay, if you will. For example, will the chaos factor actually work if I set it high, will performance cause frequent stuttering like it did on the stream, how many faults will not reset due to bugs, etc

At the end of the day, maybe I get it and it’s the only train I play. This honestly might be the first train you actually have to play to rate, rather than simply watch a stream on, so I’m really interested in buyer feedback.

 

The stuttering I don't believe was related to the chaos factor, if you're talking about the part on Dresden - Riesa, I believe Lukas stated that it was because he was playing the route for the first time. The Chaos Factor's impact should be minimal at best.

If you can't reset a fault at all, it might not be a bug, and if there are any you want to fix, then the reset faults basically resets the system to its default status, so I don't exactly see what would go wrong here. During the course of my test and research for the manual, I was always able to use the fault reset no matter what.

 

He had to jump out of the chair and go turn off a breaker to manually cause a fault. Then walked through the process of clearing the fault. Later on in the stream, I think some faults came up with the chaos factor turned really high. I couldn’t watch all two hours either, they tried but it wasn’t a good stream. They need to prerecord these. And the micro stuttering was driving me nuts…

We probably need some more insight into what the chances are… what 10x more likely actually is, for example. Like, 10x more than what? What’s the actual chance of it happening?

 

TSG set the price for the 218 at £15 despite DTG wanting to keep it at the standard £13, I can't imagine that just a few weeks later someone has come down from up high and demanded TSG charge more than they wanted to for the Expert 101.

 

For me I would have the chaaos factor on one and leave it. If that means I dont actually have a fault in a run, then so be it.

I think before I either think about streaming I will try and run through the manual on how to start the loco from cold so to make sure that I am rather compotent in it as well as using the GSMR. Which looks fun.

 

Cold start will be in a checklist sort of format. I would have LOVED to make it interactible to PDF readers and be able to tick boxes on the steps you completely, unfortunately this is not supported.

 

So a chaos factor of 1 is the realistic rate at which faults happen IRL. Another number (X) means "A fault is X times mores likely to occur than in reality." When they had the chaos factor set to 99, that meant that it was the normal rate of failure, multiplied by 99.

 

Raph' thats fine. When I eventually get the manual its immediately going on the tablet. Dont think my lap top likes pdf files (its getting old).

 

I'm little torn on this one.
From the stream it is obvious a lot of effort went into this, and the depth of simulation is much deeper than is the norm for a TSW loco, as it obvious by the fully featured breaker panel. This is great...

The issue is... there is not a lot of gamplay relevance to all of this? Which I kinda expected, as when everything is setup and works, those system are 'just there'. Which is not that surprising if you have ever watched some cab videos.

Loco like this imho needs platform support, in minimum in the ability to spawn cold & dark automatically. Or at various state of shutdown (ie shutdowns with brake pipe pressure vs pipe pressure at 0). etc, like it is standard in flight sim with high fidelity modules. Yes, it is not realistic, especially in timetable mode when it is basically a driver change...but it is gameplay... and i.e. even after years bringing a dead airplane to life is one of the most satisfying things in DCS.

...there needs to be something to actually give gamplay substance to the systems...

I'm afraid, that at the current state it will not sell well, and DTG will interpret it that there is no market for these 'expert locos'. There might be, but it needs work on the platform feature also.

I will most likely still buy it, because I like supporting high fidelity sims, and compared to my used-to price in flight sim world it is still reasonable.

 

Looks fantastic and I'd love to give it a go.
Sadly because I'm a console user I will give it a miss.
Navigating all those menus with a controller will be frustrating enough to make me throw the ps5 out the window.
If I ever get a pc that can handle the game, I'll consider this dlc.

Please consider my suggestion a few weeks ago about making menu screens selectable like in tramsim.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/class-380-feedback-thread.82732/#post-861383

 

DTG have got to make mouse support a thing for console. Keyboard works fine. Mouse works fine on many games. Not sure what gives.

Before you rule it out completely though, play around with the train sway settings and your “look speed” sensitivity settings to see if you can make things more manageable. I managed to find a pretty good sweet spot, believe it or not, which helped me a bit for the 385 TMS. It’s worth a try to fiddle with the settings, if your only hesitation is controller stuff.

You echoed my concerns to a “T” but said it all much more eloquently. Great points. I think I might also end up giving this a go because ultimately, I want to support expert/study level. Plus I like TSG, absolutely phenomenal team.

 

IIRC, Lukas said the manual would be released before the loco. So, we will have a chance to see what trouble we are getting into!

I am very excited about this loco and tackling the learning curve of realistic operation of a favorite TSW loco.

I also can’t wait to see what chaos the faults can unleash on the timetables.

The stream did not go as planned and I can only imagine what it is like to put that much time and devotion into a project and not be able to present it as smoothly as possible.

I echo calls for more pre-recorded stuff on showcase streams. I often find that when developers are talking about stuff I really want to hear in depth, the discussion gets sidetracked with questions from the chat.

Personally, I would have wanted to see more of the services and scenarios available for the 101 and Cab Car. I understand that most of the services are duplicates, but I suspect that the Cab Car brings in some new ones. I have also hear that the 101 does sub in for a freight or two.

I would also have liked to see some time spent exploring the cab and engine room. Seeing developers show off what they have accomplished is very compelling.

If folks are able, I would welcome another stream for this groundbreaking TSW loco.

Regardless, I can’t wait to try this out and I hope it succeeds enough to reward all the hard work that went into it and to inspire similar projects in the future.

 

We are trying to finish the manual as soon as possible. Just a bit more patience, progress is going well.

 

I'm looking forward to this one, and will be getting it at launch. I think it's a worthwhile experiment, if nothing else. Il

I have to chuckle that so many of the "realism or else" crew are losing it over having to learn a few words of German lol.

Also just want to say once again, these live streams are almost always awful and make the product look worse than it is, PLEASE just switch to pre-recorded ones.

 

If learning some German is what some of you need, then here's a little overview of the most important fault messages for when you are driving and a fault occurs, then consult [V>0](in motion) for the BR101:

- An geeingter Stelle anhalten => Stop at the next suitable location.
- Weiterfahrt bis zum nächsten Halt => Continue driving to the next station.
- Weiterfahrt => Continue driving.
- Weiterfahrt möglich => It is possible to continue driving.
- Abhilfemaßnahmen nach V=0 beachten => Apply measures of V=0
- Mit Betriebsbremsung anhalten => Stop with a Service Brake application.
- Zwangsbremsung bis zum Stillstand wirken lassen => Let the emergency brake bring the train to a stop.
- Zwangsbremsung bis zum Stillstand unterstützen => Apply the emergency brakes to bring the train to a stop.

 

What format will the manual be in? I would like to use a translator to my native language.

 

I probably won't buy this anyway, given the price and the time needed to deal with the complexity. But the language issue puts the kibosh on any immediate purchase.

I mean if you're aiming purely at the German market, using that language would make sense. But if you're trying to sell to players in the UK, North America and Australia etc. it would be smarter to provide in-game localization for English speakers.

 

So we get the first high-fidelity simulated loco (besides I`m missing EBULA which I assume is not the fault of TSG) together with the much wished IC Steuerwagen...

Believe me guys, I really like to criticize DTG for a lot of stuff. But not in this case and not for the price of this pack. A good simulated aircraft for FS is 60-120€ or even more, same is for a DCS module. So if this opens the door for more expert line in depth simulated locos (BR 143 please!) it would be super nice.

It is clear that a lot of effort went into this, so this is a day one buy for me. I always hoped TSW or another Train Simulator will take this step, and it is happenig now!

Possibly, some people who are complaining here about the price are not even the target group of this?

 

You mean the file extension? It will be a PDF, I believe some PDF readers are capable of translation.

 

This is a very difficult question for developers. SubwaySim Hamburg is, as I recall, the only game that has translated screens in the entire market, and that decision was already very controversial, because it is a break of realism if the real train does not feature other languages.

 

Thanks for the information. A website would be easier for me.

 

I understand the reasons to request a pre-recorded preview, in fact I'm not against DTG adding a pre-recorded demonstration, but we NEED the live previews so we can see exactly what we will get.

Also, if DTG shows a perfect pre-recorded preview and then the release is full of bugs it will look like they did that intentionally even if it is not the case. This is not good for DTG or for us.

 

IMO it doesn’t need to replace the preview stream, but a recorded service run would be nice to see.

 

This is not an issue here, since we already get the screen to configure the fault probability that the original BR 101 does not have. You could add an option to change the console language in the same screen and there would not be any realism difference for those that want the real life experience.

The issue could be the time required to make the translation, and the effect that would have on the DLC price.
For sure a translation to english of the console is very convenient for non-german speakers.
The only question is if the price increase would be accepted by german and non-german speakers (because the price would go up for everyone).

 

I think the issue there was that although they maxed out the fault probability variable, the train itself was just rolling along at line speed, so nothing electrical or mechanical was being changed and no new system was being engaged, which is when things usually go wrong. If they had left it on during, say, a station approach, or a PZB slowdown, or a neutral zone, then a fault probably would have occurred.

 

If these are actual verbal messages, how about as I suggested earlier putting subtitles on the screen? Surely with all the programming possibilities of UE that could be done. It all comes under the heading of "accessibility" which I thought DTG were quite keen on. Ultimately it is a game, not a training package for real drivers so some leeway ought to be given.

 

I don't see why this is suddenly a big issue? Have they ever localized the MFD screens before?

I know everyone's facility with language is different, but a LOT in this case is context dependent, and the fault codes are numerical....

Just seems like people piling-on at this point because they're mad about the price.

 

I am just imagining spawning this into a busy timetable like DRA and running to one end, switching cabs and running back the other way. Between the advanced controls, the random fault or two, and the traffic, it should be awesome!

 

Siemens is making locos for the US market "Amtrack" so does that mean all engineers conductors have to learn to read German?

TSW___ is sold in many different nations across the world, Learning a new language is nice and many should just to better one's self, I speak Two(2) and Used to be able to speak Three(3) Don't use it you lose it.
--BUT--
This has been an issue for a long time, with all the German trains, most say nothing, just for the reason of "Oh come on now the new complaint is everything is in German, and you people can't read it" Adapting to the market and even as OldVern stated, subtitle it, it's done for movies, TV shows, My younger daughter Loves Anime and can read TV very well. << as a side note...

So why not for A game, in this case, A Train Sim Game, "I like [SubwaySim Hamburg] the announcements are German {GREAT} I have zero issues with this, but being able to read the screen and not have a 50 page or 100 page or even 200 page Manual that the Player Must stop and consult it just know what it is on the screen. I really like this and am glad that it was done.

The realism can still be there, having a manual to learn the workings of A train is great, in all honesty, I spend more time than I would like to just to use Google Glass to know what is what, yeah there are some Popups that give a line of text, and I can for the most part figure it out to a degree. And this goes back to DTG "We are all-inclusive" Oh except for the trains and if you can't read _____ fill in the language because we now have Smigen of Italian from Berninalinie that starts in Switzerland "Romansh language", so do we the players now have to learn to understand and read even more languages.

IMHO most players are not speaking up very few are making suggestions "Most recent is Japanese" but most just either just run the game and or then start asking questions "What does this say, what does this mean, etc etc...
I'm sure if DTG reached out to the community for translations, many would be willing to help, The modding community is already fixing things where they can.

Again where there is a Will there is a way!
:update- added "Romansh language"

 

Yesterday i followed the stream and i liked looking at lot of details for this dlc, but there was one thing i didn't understand about faults system. Why should a driver set how many faults he wants to have on his train in real life? I think the purpose of passengers' trains should be to move them from A to B and not to make funner the life of drivers. I could have misunderstood the real working of this feature but i thought this system was active without to set how many faults to have during the travel. Can anybody explain it?

 

From my understanding it’s a chance modifier for the random faults.

at 1 you have the same chance of having a fault as in real life (pretty slim) you may never experience one in gameplay.

at 99 you have 99 times the chance of experiencing a fault, if you want the challenge of fault finding on a short run, you may need to have a higher number.

if you want realism, then 1 is the number for you, just don’t be shocked if you don’t get a fault.

 

This is actually a good point. The vast majority of traction units complete their daily "diagram" without any issue let alone a catastrophic failure. Otherwise you could be sure the manufacturor would not be getting any more orders. Even some of the more unreliable UK classes, the old NBL Class 22 and Class 29's, or more recently the infamous Regional Railways Class 155's (which I had the "pleasure" of being involved with on a day to day basis in Operations Control) did not conk out nearly as frequently as we might think. In the case of older locos, well there was little in the way of electronic gadgetry - if they shut down, then the driver could check coolant levels and a few other obvious factors, then request an assisting engine.

In the case of Class 155's or any other Sprinter class it was basically isolate the TIS or EBS to over-ride traction and brake lock, forward to the next staffed station and terminate then ECS to the depot, usually Canton. And yes the Class 155 fleet did at one point get grounded due to the high incidence of power doors opening while moving, but again as that was a wrong side failure (and thank christ we never had anyone fall out), it was immediate termination of the service at the next station and a quarantined empty move back to Canton for full investigation. Even after the sets were modded there was still the occasional problem, which persisted until they were sent away for conversion to Class 153's, but not every set, every day.

 

DTG started this idea, some ago, Dragline Scenario, the newest cough, cough Int'l Rescue, and that is how it should be, The modding community is already making coupler mods "mjkcp" the simple popped circuit breaker, which is low level okay sure why not, but if traction motor goes bad or has a fault, that should be out of service ASAP, Not limp home, oh yeah the Azuma Limping home on a diesel engine slow but works and mcb opened and pantos get put down. A brake line malfunction, no that is an out-of-service ASAP call Dispatch.

 

There are 5 days remaining until release. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but aren't you cutting it a bit too close?

Please don't eff this up, is what I'm saying. People will be relying on the manual for vital information for once.

 

It a loco for a German rail company, why wouldn't it be in German.

If it was an Amtrak 101 it would be in English. This isn't like flying where your pilots are traveling to multiple countries 1000's of miles away and there is a world wide standard.

Each region has there own standards and I'm pretty sure more people in Germany speak German than English.

If you go to a bistro in France do you expect them to greet you in english or french?

When the Tadami Line comes out the labels in the cab are going to be in Japanese, not English. So will that be a problem.

In fact all the German trains in the game all the labels are in German and no one has complained before.

 

Functionally, it is now feature complete. We are adding some finishing touches, and 2 pretty interesting/useful features, not necessities but they're nice to have. So we're expecting to have finished this week-end

 

It is a german loco. Of course the default console must be in german as it is in reality.
What I do not understand is what is the problem if some people that do not speak german ask for an OPTIONAL translation of the console to english.

Why people are asking for this now and not before? Because it is one thing to memorize what a single word like "türfreigabe" or "batterie" means and a completely different one to memorize 20 or 30 phrases that can appear in the "v>0" screen. Most people can memorize 3 or 4 words easily, so they don't ask devs to do extra work for nothing and this is why the subject has not come out before.

Now that we are talking about this, I think that translating only the "V>0" phrases to english (as an OPTION, nothing that a german speaking user needs to even notice) would be probably enough for most non-german users. The big annoyance would be to go check the manual to translate a "V>0" screen just to learn that it means you can continue driving. If we get to the point where we need to stop the train and go check the manual then it does not matter if we need to check one or two more pages for the translation of everything else.

 

Oh, I'm sure German people speak the German language, I would hope so, as do the French and If I were in those countries, I would either find a translator or use a device to assist me. But this a product that is sold worldwide, can they or should have written in every language, no that would not work out due to cost and time, but having subtitles is not hard, so then when a new plane, let's say an Airbus A380 in MSFS is sold there is no way for none English speaking people to use it because they can't read what is written because it is in English. I'm sure in MSFS they have some sort of transition or does Google Glass need to be used to understand what is written on the controls, I don't have MSFS, so I don't know, "Besides I just could not handle the flight aspect"

And as I said most don't say anything because of getting the "So now the complaint is people can't read German" while a few do ask questions because most locos don't come with a manual. As in this post here https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/db-br-101-instruments-and-driving-help.51751/ Why should anyone have to do this when it could have been in-game or a proper manual?
Just like this new BR 101 is getting. And on top of that, it's 100 + pages as I understand it.

 

At the time of writing, 114 pages. I suspect a couple more but probably not more than 120.

EDIT: Perhaps closer to 108 as you'd have the front page, 3 pages of table of contents, the credits and the legal information that Lukas is gonna have filed in for me before publishing.

 

WoW, that is a lot of pages to read through.

 

I would say because of realism.

Personally I wouldn't want a german train to have english on the controls or panels because that is not realistic.

I do agree though like a little pop up saying what the control is in english would be nice and not make it less realistic.

But even in the english speaking world train operators do have to consult manuals for errors as usually it is just a code displayed and unless you remember all of your training or have come across the error before your going to have to look it up in real life too. Or contact dispatch and they look it up.

So it adds realism to the drive.

Also in real life all pilots are required to speak english and planes to be labelled in english as a rule of the International Air Transport Association. English is the official language for Air Transport.

A small little fact is the reason some of the 9/11 hijackers were unable to aquire a pilots license or graduate flight school was their lack of english language skills.

But I still think its not quite what I was thinking it was going to be. So I'll hold off for now. I'm sure at some point there will be a lull in DLC and I'll be itching for something new it will be on my list.

But right my priority is to save my mad money for TSW5 first as I think I will find more value with that personally.

I think its a bit too high priced but it is what it is and does look good so oh well.