Upcoming Release Db Br 101 ‘expert’ - Coming Soon!

It is but I hope it is digestable enough. I've tried to section the manual a lot to make it easier to track what you need to find and added page breaks at the right places to not overload them with too much information. I initially anticipated that the faults and failures chapter would take the 2/3rds of the manual, but it seems to be pretty nicely distributed. The biggest section is by far the GSM-R one actually, my mate Foobian has done a pretty splendid job on it!

 

Very very excited about this. It's the biggest step up in simulation in TSW history. This could be the start of a great balance between simulation and casual gaming with both standard products from DTG and so called 'expert' products from third party developers who can take their time with releases and build rapport with their fans.

 

That‘s sth. really nice to try out! It‘s just really sad, that we can‘t load or unload passengers in „Freeroam“ mode

 

Chaos Factor has 0 affect on the computational cost, it just makes faults more probable to occur. Enabling the fault simulation would in theory have a non-zero affect on performance, but will be negligible on even the minimum required hardware (it's really cheap). The fault manager is not even close to being the bottleneck in performance of this DLC

 

Somehow I feel that interactions with the MFD, circuit breakers, or valves in the ' Luftgerüßt ' and so on... Literally the whole fault finding and Tfz setup process... will be a pain in the butt for controller users.
Some of the clicks spots are usually very tiny and really easy to miss.

Anyone of the testers or preview users actually tried to use the expert version with a game controller yet?

 

Thank you for clarifying that

 

No reason to be afraid of German words. You can learn them and once you get used to it, you will understand more of it. You do not need a full German Language course. Translating texts would cause a lot of authenticity. btw I heard nobody complain about the Polish texts SimRail uses.

 

Put me down as another person very excited for this. Just touching on a few points a few have brought up: price is a non-issue for me given how much "behind the scenes" is simulated, and the train should absolutely only have displays in German language, and most of the "daily" things you need to do in the setup will become muscle memory.

I saw a couple of comments along the lines of "this is no different in daily driving". I think what is not being appreciated here is everything behind the scenes. Because the train has all the CBs, valves, PZB train data etc etc all simulated and accounted for, that actually subtly improves all the day-to-day driving. I spent nearly 8 years with Flight Sim Labs as an alpha and then beta tester and saw this same argument. "Why would anyone just flying A-to-B pay £130 for the FSL A320 instead of just £50 for the Aerosoft A320?". The difference is in the details - in the FSL there were so many subtle differences that made for a more realistic experience, even tiny things like how the aircraft applied its power and how the flight directors and autopilot compensated for the nose-up tendencies that the engine thrust produced, or how the engine displays should only display fuel flow in multiples of 20kg/hr instead of providing the raw number. All those tiny things that are barely noticeable day-to-day are all there, and are immeasurably improving that day-to-day.

 

And that's one of the reasons why I would like a VR mode. In VR, I could work better with the individual components of the locomotive. It would also be possible to create a virtual manual that would be placed at the driver's station. Another argument for VR, when driving a fully simulated locomotive, you have to monitor multiple devices. In VR mode, just turn your head to see the monitor better.

 

This. From the day I watched the preview stream I asking DTG to allow to use mouse on PS5 becouse sometimes aiming on buttons can be frustrating (for example when you riding through neutral wire section, and you fastly need to pull throtle to zero, turn off MCB and lower pantographs, then after passing do it all again fastly to keep up going).


Dear TSG, have you tried playing with Dualsense on PS5? It is even able to have enjoyment gameplay without mouse when trying to aim on all of these buttons?

 

It would be sooo epic if we would get the announcement:
"Information zu IC 2024 nach Dresden HBF, Ankunft 17:34, heute ca. 250 Minuten später, Grund dafür ist eine techniche Störung am Zug."

 

Probably a very unpopular opinion, but only if it is voiced by Heiko Grauel.

 

Most of it is translated to english, specially the complex things like the consoles to control traffic at stations.

Still don't get why some people is against having translations that are completely OPTIONAL and that people that want the "true to life" experience will not ever have to see.

 

Is there a link to the manual?

 

Not currently, we are finalising it, we want to release it at the beginning of next week, so we will have more information shortly, hopefully soon!

 

Given the amount of computer and GSM-R input required to get going, is adequate setup time allowed?

 

From watching the live stream, on the Dresden route you get one whole minute for setup time in a timetable service and two minutes on the Salzburg route, just like normal. You will be lucky to depart anything less than five minutes late. Playing on a console with a controller will be a nightmare for the setup. It’s going to be a barrier to entry for me for certain.

 

The way I understand it is that when you are in expert mode your train will be fully ready and set up, with safety systems enabled. I am not on console but I would think that the expert 101 would make it even easier for you guys, as today you need to set up safety systems in all locos without a keyboard short cut.

GSMR is obviously not needed to drive the train and you can also set it up after pulling out of the station.

Source:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/br101-expert-some-clarification.83254/

 

We do have keyboard support on console just no mouse. I always use the short cut to set up my safety systems, switch cab if rear lights or desination board needs to be setup as well.

But using a controller to click things is very tedious. You have to zoom in and then try to manupulate so the the button is in the centre of your screen. Using a super sentive movement that seems to take 3 or 4 trys before you actually hit the button.

 

Unfortunately, that still means entering the ZDE (Train Data), train number in the GSM-R (Radio)(currently no numbers available on Dresden - Riesa), which can be a bit finicky with controllers. I hope a solution for this will be made available sometime soon.

 

With Expert Mode enabled, these are the necessary steps:
1. Input data into the ZDE (or it will run in the "Grunddaten" aka basic data mode where you lose LZB and PZB is in a more restrictive mode, sort of like mode U but with some different indications, and AFB won't enable)
2. Change the signal lights switch (I'm going to revisit this for the patch to see if this can be automated, the issue is with driving direction)
3. Activate the cab.
4. Enable train line/train heating.
5. Release the doors.
To save time you can do steps 3 -> 4 & 5 before the others, but it's usually not necessary.

For non-standard trains (non IC or freight) you may need to actually calculate the train data and change brake mode and turn off ep-braking, but the two latter ones are quick and calculating train data would never be feasible to add a delay for since this can take 5 minutes or more depending on your familiarity - pause is your solution.

With Expert Mode disabled you can ignore ZDE since it will be preset (for IC trains, for freight you'd need to change it if you want AFB to behave optimally, LZB and PZB will of course be incorrect but these are disabled, if you want these enabled you're going to lose time anyway so you might as well set up ZDE)

Regarding ZDE being preset in Expert Mode. This was my idea initially, but I made the design decision to leave this for the player because:
(a) It's quite quick for most trains
(b) If preset it makes the ZDE basically useless for most services in the game.
(c) A lot of people were asking for more "cold and dark" style set up, and in the absence of these in service mode (at launch) at least this is some basic setup work.

I added a view for each important panel or screen, so you don't even need to get up from the seat to set the ZDE.

 

Where do you actually get that data for ZDE input from ?
Is it provided by the game somewhere, or do you have to calculate it on your own somehow?

During my active time as TF, decades ago, we had a "Bremszettel". Im not really familiar with the setup process on the modern locos anymore. Zugfunk was still analog on 70cm Band, pre-GSM-R.

 

Dear TSG and Dovetail

As we know, especially on the internet, the critical voices are often the loudest. Criticism should always be welcomed, and the existence of a forum like this and your choice to hold live streams (rather than pre-recorded) shows to me at least, that you value and welcome criticism. I believe that my personal opinion to this product are reflected in others, but that this is an opinion that can quickly be drowned out in a forum with as dedicated and passionate people like this. The railways have always for some reason been a hobby, that produce very strong opinions and emotions, this is also one of the reasons why I love this interest, and to share it with others and engage.

I can’t overstate my excitement for this release. This is absolutely 100% exactly what I want in a train simulation. To have a train where everything is simulated to be as realistic as possible, to be able to experience faults and troubleshooting in a run (and have the ability to disable and control this), to have to setup the train in a realistic manner, and having to actually learn how a train is “screwed” together - is absolutely what I desire most.
Then - to have this in a game where the use of this foundation can be expanded with future routes etc. makes it even more exciting to me.

THANK YOU TrainSim-Germany for taking this risk and doing this experiment. I sincerely hope that you do not feel discouraged by the reception on this forum, and that you do not feel like this represents the potential reception of this product as a whole.

To the points of criticism raised, there is of course validity in them.
* The price is higher than previous products - but this is not comparable to either routes of previous loco releases. From all the work that you have performed over the last (as I understand it) year, to be able to make a profit on this I can see that the price needs to be higher. I hope of course that you have considered the elasticity of the price, since this will make this product lose at least some of the sales that it could have gained. I for one will purchase it on release day if nothing else than to support the concept of expert locos.
* I do not think it is valid to say, that there is an almost ethical problem in “locking” the cab-car in this release. If you (TSG) wants to make the cab-car for YOUR release (and it would be a BIG problem if you had not in my opinion), then you should do it. If you had decided to make a train that does not exists in the game already - for this kind of price - that would have been equally understandable. The “expert” locos should not be limited to “only stuff that already exists” - then what is the point. In my opinion, the big issue here is that the cab-car was not made for the original BR101. I think this was a mistake then, and this mistake shows its horns now again.
* The lack of gameplay I agree on. This loco should in my opinion have been able to do every timetable service that the original 101 can do and more upon release. But my impression is that there is more planned for the product gamplaywise - and with a Dovetail Direct just around the corner - this can also (and probably will) open up new gameplay for this. I do think though that this is a valid reason for some to wait until a later point in time to buy this loco. This could be a reason for me to wait to buy it, but I really want to support the “expert” loco concept and encourage the TSG team to do more. And to come up ahead of this: It is not valid to me that a TSW4 loco DLC requires TSW5 routes to use “fully”. The iterations of the game is arbitrary to me - I do believe it is a big shame that each iteration (big core update) is presented as a new game - and priced as this. I think it should be presented as an update, and priced at a lower point - because that is essentially what it is (I also think you should be able to get the “update” without any of the associated routes at this lower price). But the game absolutely should develop - and there is no problem in my opinion with older content getting new gameplay in later iterations of the game. The “what about us TSW2 players” argument is a little hollow to me. You should buy the game (or the DLC) for what it is currently - do not buy it in expectation of fixes or expansions in the future (including promises!) - that way you can only be positively excited by the new stuff as it is presented and released. I of course expect that bug fixing will continue and be an active part of development in the future as well. I also really hope that you will continue to upscale and remaster older routes (like Cathcart recently). These updates are usually more exciting to me than new routes - since it raises the overall quality of my content. And a massive kudos to you for usually making this as free updates (LIRR as an outlier).

Okay - this became a lot longer than I expected. I mostly just wanted to say to TSG+DTG: Thank you immensely for taking a chance on this product - I really hope that you will do more like this in the future, I would much much rather have half (or even less) of the releases (routes + locos) during a year for double the price per item, if this meant that this level of realism and simulation could be achieved. This post is meant as a (love)letter to TSG and DTG - I do not expect to engage in this discussion further from this point. I wish you a great success with this release, and I can not wait to drive IC services up and down Germany in this loco (and cab-car).

 

Yeah, you have to calculate that but it's mostly pretty easy.

BRA - Brake mode based on type of train. 9 for passenger, 4 for freight with P brake mode and 2 for freight with G brake mode.
BRH - Brake percentage, which is just brake weight of the whole train divided by weight of the whole train.
ZL - Length of the train in meters. Rounded up to nearest 10 so for example 204 > 210.
VMZ - Max speed of the train in km/h.

 

Allright, so not much changed then, im familiar with this then.
Thank you

 

And there is even a poster right in the cab with all of the info so I think at least those who speak German should be set.

Also I want to ask a technical question. Is it true that drivers would intentionally set lower BRH in poor weather conditions? Asking because I did read about it somewhere.

 

We did it sometimes back in the days then, not sure about the exact amount anymore, but there was spreadsheets for that. ( I was active around 1988 - 1995 )

The rules was something like this:
If the coefficient of friction is poor, braking SHOULD be initiated when driving past the distant signal. You should not brake with full braking force and without sanding. Predictive driving style is given.
The braking hundredths don't play a role.

 

Thank you so much for your post and the effort you put into de-escalating the pressure and extreme criticism. But just like you say, criticism should always be welcome if it's fairly described and doesn't express extreme anger .

 

This is missing a bit of information. The brh value that you get out of this is not the one you should enter in the ZDE panel, I even reflected that in the manual because that's also how it's referred to in the brh calculator, it is not capitalised.

To get the true BRH value you have to convert with this, the poster in the cab. You first find your brh value in the ranges in the column on the left. Let's say that I drive the BR101 with the typical consist, 8 normal cars and the Cab-Car, I'd expect to find a brh value of 204 or 205, I've had both results before. Then I look at the sheet, which I also provided a translation of in the manual and it says:
brh 184 - 205 -> Final BRH 180, that's the value you'd enter in the ZDE.

 

Yes there are subtitles and so on, but the texts on the screens and annotating the buttons are in Polish only. Like in TSW there are help texts translated into English. That is not my point. My point is that some people are now objecting against seeing German texts on screens and in messages. For me it is OK to provide a translation, but on the other hand I see no reason to be very afraid of seeing a text in a foreign language. I see English texts all day and my mothertongue is Dutch. It looks like in other countries people are not exposed to any other language on Earth but their own and somehow it disturbs me. You can learn other languages and understand there is more in the world that the English/US culture or the French culture or the German culture. It may enrich your live to gain some knowledge on that.

 

Welcome to the future of TSW: £30 Locos and £50 routes. I hope dtg go broke.

 

Nope. Examples:

I agree that there is no problem with having some words in another language. For example, SimRail does not translate "LK 4" to "Line 4". Why? Because everyone knows what it means or will figure it out in 10 seconds. Nobody cares.

Another example:
Here you can see the ED250 ETCS console translated to spanish, but the console on the left is in polish. Why? Because you can figure out what the data is in the left console (Amps, speed in km/h, etc), but you would have a hard time with the many ETCS console options.



It is not a matter of translating everything or nothing. Its about translating the part that makes sense so you do not leave many players (= customers) out. As you say, it is good to be exposed to some words and learn a bit of other languages but there is a point where it is too complex to deal with efficiently while having fun.

 

Is BRA the brake mode for only the loco? For example, if I use noir 's freight calculator, I could get G loco but P wagons, would this be mode 4 or 2? Similarly, what about running in LL (loco and first 5 wagons in G)?

 

From what I talked with OpenMinded about it, freight train is treated as P-train with BRA 4, unless whole train is in G, then it gets to BRA 2. My calculator reflects that.

 

Ah that's great, thank you so much!

 

So for the signalling panels, I'm not sure if they're fully realistic and this was the reason given for their translation.

ETCS translations are prototypical, not all languages might be on all trains, but that's something you can do if they're installed.

Not to give a particular opinion on your point, I see both sides are being valid, but I think the justification is the ones I gave in this instance. The Screens in Polish are those that are never translated, and there's more than the information given there on the screenshot I reckon.

 

Just for my ignorant mind, there is a numerical keypad-like input device above the LZB 80 ZDE (LZB/PZB data) input device. What is its function? Thanks in advance.