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Delay

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Louwe, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Louwe

    Louwe Member

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    DING DONGGGGG, here is a notice for the passengers on the RT-route: The BR 182 has a delay of indefinite time on arrival, caused by broken overhead. :) :)

    Craziness of course and I hardly dare to ask, but when can we expect the BR 182 on track 2?
     
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  2. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    DTG tend to annouce products once they have been submitted to the Steam Store. Steam needs 10 working days to process new products and get them on sale, so I would expect the BR 182 this Thursday (14th).
     
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  3. faber2311

    faber2311 New Member

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    there would be too good to be true:cool:
     
  4. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Opinions on this particular DLC aside, the last loco DLC (the Class 33- just recently bought it btw, it's quite good) was released almost exactly 2 weeks after it was announced. So, I'd expect the same here- it'll probably release on the 14th- just like Digital Draftsman said. Now, whether it SHOULD release on the 14th is a different matter...
     
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  5. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

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    On an Instagram post they said that will be released in "1-2 months time", and that answer came 1 week ago...
     
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  6. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    From an instagram post about the 182 48156765-0B3C-4267-90CE-1AA291A7427E.jpeg
     
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  7. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Member

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    Hmm.., 1-2 months does not sound like the usual amount of time it takes DTG to take a DLC from announcement to release.
    At least for me, that begs the question: did they decide to rework the route after that huge backlash on the thread where the 182 was announced?
     
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  8. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they'd rework the signalling on RT. It's more likely that they create a second version of the BR 182 which is compatible with the PZB on RSN and MSB, then swap it into some of the freight services on those routes; Though that seems too much like common sense for DTG, but you never know!
     
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  9. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Member

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    I like your idea better than mine anyway. I simply like RSN and MSB more than RT, therefore having the 182 for those routes sounds pretty sweet. Let's wait and see
     
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  10. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting...

    Yeah, this sounds more likely, but it would highlight how broken RT is, which would be absolutely terrible marketing... so, there's still *some* hope they'll fix RT. I wouldn't be too sure about it, though.

    (Worth mentioning that if they fix RT it makes it much easier to implement the loco in MSB and RSN because you only need 1 version, so it could even be both)
     
  11. Typhomat

    Typhomat Active Member

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    If they did decide to fix RT to get this DLC to work with MSB and RSN, they would get a sale from me, no question about it.
     
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  12. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    DTG allready said the BR182 will only come to RT, not to RSN and MSB.
     
  13. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Member

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    That was before nearly everyone on this forum called them out on their.. bad decisions regarding RT. So here's to hoping that they listened and reevaluated their decisions
     
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  14. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I feel they would have said something, though... they've still been way too quiet, seems like they don't want to admit that they aren't doing anything...
     
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  15. Typhomat

    Typhomat Active Member

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    I agree, but at the same time they might not say anything until management approves or they know it will be done. DTG is careful about saying things like how a whole route might be fixed - if they say something and it doesn't happen, the backlash would be even worse. Given the 1-2 month wait, it might also be that they want the issues we have surrounding it to go silent and release it hoping it gets more sales with people unaware of the issues.
     
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  16. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Or the complete opposite. Maybe they will use the extra 1-2 months productively to fix RT or make the 182 work with MSB/RSN.
     
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  17. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Even if it does go quiet, wouldn't these complaints just pop right back up on release? It isn't like the problem goes away or anything...
     
  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They would have to make the freight version of the 182 for RSN/MSB. It’s different from the passenger version. PZB wise nothing would have to change. The problem isn’t with the locomotive, it’s with the route.
     
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  19. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Uh... first off, no, it's the same locomotive- in fact, they were first purchased for freight.

    Second off, the problem is with BOTH the route and the locomotive. This was stated quite clearly on a studio update a while ago.
     
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    All the locomotive has to do is read the magnets. The problem with RT, is that most of the magnets give the incorrect information. The locomotive correctly behaves to what information is given to it.
     
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  21. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    There are different variants for freight and passenger. For example any 182 that runs freight won’t have the destination display.
     
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  22. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    Well the BR143 on RSN runs freight with the destination displays too, so where is the problem running the BR182 on freight?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  23. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    The same 182 locomotives lacked destination displays on introduction, had them added for passenger workings and then had them removed after. But during the life of these locomotives they hauled freights with destination displays and they hauled passenger without destination displays, so there's nothing to say that a 182 couldn't turn up on a freight with a destination display.

    DTG's best option is to make a second version of the 182 with MSB/RSN PZB, in Railion livery and without the destination display, all of which are minor alterations. They could then add some service mode trains for MSB/RSN and the 182 DLC would probably sell quite well even if the RT side of it is still broken.
     
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  24. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    From July Studio update on PZB in RT: "Upgrading the Talent 2 will be a simpler job but would need to happen after the route work has been completed."
     
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  25. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I’m just reiterating what Matt said on Discord when the question was asked about using the 182 for freight. I’m not exactly sure myself what all the differences are between the variants.
     
  26. Fabrizio520

    Fabrizio520 Active Member

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    DTG says a lot of things about updates, the editor etc.
    One could write a novel about it, entitled "Waiting for Godot" ...:(
     
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  27. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well... to be fair, early TS routes were horrible and broken also, and some of those STILL haven't been fixed. Donner Pass, for example, STILL doesn't have working career scenarios... they are impossible to complete without speeding.

    Point is, DTG and its predecessors have all gotten away with this before and had their franchises survive just fine, so they probably don't see much pressure to change. They're making an editor, they have addressed some key concerns like diesel physics, and they are confident that the game will survive, so why do any more work than they have to?

    I'm not defending this, not at all, just saying it might be why they do this kind of thing.

    Overall, given that the editor is probably going to released eventually, my main complaint with TSW at this point doesn't have anything to do with the game itself- it's the management.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  28. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    If you look at some of the old Railworks routes:

    Cajon Pass & Donner Pass: No banked curves (half-hour fix in editor), no real lighting. One of the last actual upgrades that the Railworks line saw was the upgrade to TS2012/RW3, which added lights, windshield wiper motion, bouncing trains, banked curves, and springy couplers. Since then, each new year has brought only new routes to the table; innovation since that point has only on behalf of third party dev's (like Smokebox and scripted brakes). DTG (and RSC) have a long history of not updating any of their old stock.

    If you have been on this ride since the beginning, you might remember the horrendous ES44AC and SD40-2 that released with Rail Simulator. Lights weren't a thing, and the ES44AC sounded like an EMD 645. Dynamic brakes didn't work, then were patched to work, then were patched out again, and MU'ing a consist resulted in only the lead loco having a working throttle sound. Plus, RS had the contrast turned to minimum, so all of the colors and small textures looked washed out.

    The TS series has gotten better since then, but mostly because of third party devs. I just bought a Searchlight Sim SD40-2, and noticed the excellent scripting, phenomenal sound, and unbelievable texture resolution. It runs extremely well, and has now ruined the enjoyment of most other locomotives in the game. Exceptions to this are the VRC U30C, Smokebox locos, and Victory Works' USATC S160. See the trend? I follow Smokebox on FB, and he's still coming up with fixes and patches for his Consolidation, released back in 2013. That's one guy finding bugs, fixing them, and adding features to a six-year-old loco. I think the oldest DLC I've seen DTG give a fix for is six months.

    When the editor does finally release (still no news yet since December), I feel like TSW's biggest gains will be from third-party devs.
     
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  29. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly how I feel about this.
     
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  30. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the developers, it’s the management.
     
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  31. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you're right. It's always been clear that the developers do care about what they do. They put as much effort as they can into stuff but get rushed. I'll edit my post.
     
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  32. zero909

    zero909 New Member

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    To follow up and I have mentioned this on Discord but for the record i will mention it here :)

    While in general there are different versions of that loco type at other firms, DB only bought a single batch of these locos (as a replacement for 152 which were not approved for use in Austria). Hence they shifted the original order from 152 to what then became the 182. All of the 25 locos ordered were bought by DB Cargo and used in freight operations. Years later they were transferred to DB Regio and only then retrofitted with a package for passenger services. So all DB owned 182 are the same and would be perfectly fine for freight operations, the ZZA could be removed easily from the model.

    More details here: https://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1404945&lang=1
     
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  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think we’ll see the most improvement/upgrades/surprises or whatever you want to call it from third party developers.

    Personally I have never been that impressed with DTG’s DLC for TS1 and it was always the third party developers that made the real effort and improvements.

    I don’t see this changing for TSW so once the editor has been released, that is when we will really start to see the capabilities of TSW.
     
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  34. zero909

    zero909 New Member

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    I agree, DTG is building solid content but it will be 3rd party devs who will push the limits. But still, I really like a lot of things that DTG have done for TSW, only time will tell what TSW is capable of.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Active Member

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    I think a lot of the more recent DTG routes for TS1 have been very good, both North and South Wales routes and the Waterloo to Portsmouth route, the stock has improved too. The blue Woodhead I thought was a very good package too.

    My favourite TS route though is probably the AP Wherry Lines as I love the attention to detail in it.
     
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  36. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    I'm interested to see how well thing scan be made by 3rd party; I know DTG imported some of the legacy models from TS201x into TSW. I'd like to see what all new lighting, models, trains, and gameplay we will be able to see when they get created. I understand that DTG has time limits. An independent creator can take his/her sweet time.
     
  37. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    TSW has some good routes too, to be fair. This just seems to prove that routes will get better with time. TSW is only 2 years old, TS is much older than that. How many of your favorite TS routes were made when the sim was still called RailWorks?
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Active Member

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    None of the ones I mentioned we around during Railworks. I have used TS a lot less in the last few months) as I prefer TSW and when I use TS it is mainly the more recent routes apart from Riviera in the 50's which I still enjoy the most in terms of the amount of stock I have for it and the challenging drive it offers (that route in TSW would be epic in my opinion). I like the TSW routes my main complaint would be that I would like more stock available to use on most of them.
     
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  39. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    I was there when it was still called "Rail Simulator". I still consider "Railworks" to be the "new" name.

    I'd enjoy an updated version of Cajon Pass if it weren't for me enjoying Run8 much more.
     
  40. Louwe

    Louwe Member

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    I do not know if this question fits here, but when a loc. does not do well, then another loc. to choose a specific route?
    Every time I read that a certain loc. can only be driven in a certain route. Is it so hard to find every loc. to be able to drive for every route? As in TS20xx, for example, you choose a route and then a random locomotive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  41. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    As things stand right now, you cannot drive locomotives from one route onto another route. There is a way to change this with the editor (when it comes out), but I'm unsure of if there will be a Quick Drive mode.
     
  42. LT586

    LT586 Active Member

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    Devs love announcing stuff way before its past QA. Or is just todays mindset to be in a hurry.
     
  43. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how people complain that DTG don’t announce their future plans early enough, and then people complain that DTG announce things too early.
     
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  44. LT586

    LT586 Active Member

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    I think following a devs progress is essential but once announced its either too early and delayed or didnt know about it and its due. I prefer the latter, coming from a non game industry background, less is more
     
  45. theorganist

    theorganist Active Member

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    Well it isn't helped by customers complaining there are no announcements being made and that everything has gone quiet and also being hungry for news.
     
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  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Annoucing what is coming and annoucing when it's coming are two different things.

    If you announce what is coming then the community can give feedback which can be implemented before the product is released, thus making it a better product. DTG don't have any interest in this approach, as their standard policy is to announce the product after it has been submitted to Steam, by which time it's no longer possible to make changes. DTG care more about getting the product out ASAP than they do about increasing the quality of the product, so for them an early announcement which yields good constructive feedback is a bad thing as it's just more changes to implement before release. This I believe is why they take the approach they do.

    When challenged on this subject DTG make excuses about licensing issues and whilst that does hold some water, if it was the only issue we'd see some products announced earlier than others, purely because the license was agreed earlier, but what we have is a consistent pattern of annoucement and release which is indicative of a rigid policy rather than dynamic restraints.
     
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  47. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    This isn’t true. When WSR was first announced, people noticed a problem with the front of the 47, and DTG were still able to fix it according to the feedback.
     
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  48. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    That's an exception to the rule and actually proves my point.

    With WSR they announced it more than two weeks before they released it, so there was time to make the correction and so we got a better product because of it. With NTP (which would have the same licensing as WSR as the logos are both British Rail) they announced it two weeks before release and there was a fault with the appearance of the Class 101 DMU, but it couldn't be fixed as the DLC had already been submitted to Steam.
     
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  49. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    On the stream, Adam said that they looked into that issue many times and they got it right.
     
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the fix to this is the following:

    DTG get the product to the point of releasing it. They put out a detailed description and video of the product to this forum and discord prior to uploading it anywhere (or even creating the placemarkers for it, which also get used against them).

    Any comments then received delay the release of said software until those issues are fixed and there are no further comments for 14 days. This means that the people delaying the release are actually the end users.

    This would allow people like DD to have their say, and would ensure the quality of the product, include the community etc etc
     
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