Creation Sharing Diary Of Creating A Route - Toronto Subway Opening Day

There are no distributed "unbranded" versions. The "unbranded version" is whatever is sold. If people want the logos, they can download the branding patch. AP has been in business for 15 years, and not once have they been sued. Do you think they would have access to the railroads they source their sounds from if they were tied up in litigation?

You have a clear and present misunderstanding of copyright law so you can ask Richard himself, otherwise log off and touch grass.

 

You just contradicted yourself.

And is there anybody who doesn't want the logos?

That proves absolutely nothing.

I presume the people granting access for audio recordings are not the same people who are in charge of licensing. It's undisputable that AP's products aren't licensed.

I wouldn't be lecturing others on the nature of IP law when you don't know the difference between copyrights and trademarks...

 

(Ahem.) So I've been doing some archeo-cartography, if that's a word.

It's been bothering me for a while that I couldn't work out from what position this photograph was taken. I think I've got it now; they're on the roof of the Entrance to Davisville station (the sillies!) The platform on the left would be the bus platform, and the subway cutting would be to the left of the crowd, which is standing in the middle of Davisville Avenue and in front of the bus platform, instead of on the subway tracks! This would also explain the lack of a fence where the photographer is. Now I know where to put the bandstand!

(Official opening ceremonies, Davisville station
March 30, 1954
Photographer: Canada Pictures Limited
City of Toronto Archives
Series 381, File 298, Item 11847-12)

 

You were told once to go outside and touch grass.

 

My apologies to the OP.

 

Er, that isn't a means for you to shut down any disagreement.

 

By the way, you also could have continued holding your argument in a PM or open a new thread about it in the General Discussion or Off-topic Forum instead of spamming this thread here with it.

The copyright topic was just a side note and you two turn it into something which hasn't anything more to do with the topic of this thread. Don't you see that?

Also I don't know the exact circumstances of the specific case, you guys are talking about, but I know that this statement is true for any copyright law in the world, independent whether or not a company has been suited for their doings in the past or not:

Using a brand logo on a freeware project can get you in a lawsuit if the owner wants to. It does not need to be a commercial project.

But please be aware, that we're here for Toronto subway route creation, not a copyright discussion and every future step of the use of the relevant brand in question is just his very own thing. Not yours.

Also both of you seem to have overseen this message by OP, which kind of already is a solution to the initial problem/idea getting in touch with them to use your their logo. So nothing more to say on this topic here in this thread I guess:

 

[Removed - Alex: Inappropriate, Insulting]

 

There is no disagreement, only facts. Ask Richard Armstrong why he hasn't been sued in 15 years. [Removed - Alex: Inappropriate, Insulting]

 

As far as I'm aware Richard Armstrong isn't a trademark lawyer.

 

[Removed - Alex: Inappropriate, Insulting]

 

Just because you haven't been sued, doesn't mean you're not breaking the law.

 

So, here we are on page 2, and as you can see, I've got the basic idea about how to get the mesh of my platforms to run alongside the track, give or take a bit of fine tuning:


But I lack an understanding of how the platform is supposed to be set up, so that the game sees it internally. (If it is at all?) Perhaps this only happens later on when I start defining services and scenarios? Does anybody know if this was covered in one of the masterclasses, and I slept through it? I honestly have no idea. Oh well, no more time to worry about it tonight.

 

So here's something with a bit of green to get folks ready for St. Patrick's Day! (well, blue-green. "English Eggshell", to be precise.)

I'm not sure why I'm such an obsessive gremlin when it comes to dialing in my materials on every little thing before moving to the next bit, but at least my inner gremlin is happy!


Also, I'm not sure why the TTC designed their platforms with this odd, vertigo-inducing ~2 degree slant towards the tracks. I think it's just the side platforms and not the centre platforms. If I still lived in Toronto, I could just go check.

Which reminds me, thanks again CFTFC for letting me beta test your Toronto Commuter mod! For those unaware, it was released today on the Train Sim Community website, and I would certainly recommended it to anyone interested.

 

I guess with "how the game sees it internally" you mean how one can assign trains to stop and load passengers as well as spawning NPCs on the platforms, right?

Stopping and loading passengers is done in the timetable (service) editor. But you also do not select a platform there and the game automatically generates everything for you (As I had no idea about how things work, I thought it would happen like that too, but it is not). Setting up all of these things is indeed way more separated to the actual platform building process than you would think.

You "pick a location" - a point anywhere along the platform - where you want things to happen (wait, stop the train or do the boarding and unboarding processes), then continue by using new node instructions.

Don't have a clue how NPCs spawn on platforms and the stuff with the PIS boards is working, but as far as I could see from other projects, it done via some specific blueprint systems each. Unfortunately just like the thing with the traffic blueprint system, both of these weren't covered in any masterclass.

 

Thanks, RobertSchulz , that is exactly what I meant. No idea why DTG set things up that way, then, but I can work with that. As for the rest, I guess I'll be puzzling it out as I go, unless others in the community work it out first. The only real PIS on this 1954 subway was in the form of signs at Eglinton (and maybe Union?) stations saying "NEXT TRAIN" with arrows pointing to either side of the platform that would blink, as a train approached either side of the centre platform using the diamond crossovers, and then be steadily lit until the train departed, heading back.

I know there's a better photo out there, but I can't find it at the moment. Setting that up will be a fun little adventure!

(edited to remove ambiguity in my description of the sign behaviour)

 

Time for another update, if only because I need to spend the rest of the weekend going over my taxes.

After a lot of experimentation with ue4's lighting system and countless rebuilds, I've got the platform lighting about as good as it's going to get. Not quite a light for every real life source, but I think the overall effect is somewhat convincing, while still allowing for dynamic shadows. I gave the generic track workers a fireman's idle animation, so they can help test those dynamic shadows.

The "subway car" is just the (very much) work-in-progress static mesh with a proxy undercarriage aligned to the wheel flanges, for platform clearance testing (but it looks pretty!) Platform height was within a cm or so without adjusting, which makes me feel confident about the accuracy of my research and modelling both.

As I may have mentioned, some details of the platform design and signage just aren't going to be 100% accurate but again I have to remind myself I'm trying to re-create parts of transit infrastructure that were made 70 years ago, and began being remodelled almost as soon as they were built, all while doing so from the other side of the continent, where I currently reside. Not the easiest task, but I persist.

Hope everyone is having a good Easter weekend!

 

...and now the editor crashed and seems to have deleted my Track Scenery layer. For a hot minute I thought it took my ribbons with it. DTG Matt If I may bug you for a second, Is there anything special I need to do to set up a Track Scenery layer? Also, I don't suppose there's an easy way to regenerate the lofts all in one go?



note: editing my ribbons a bit seems to be regenerating the adjacent meshes. Not sure about that track scenery layer. Looks like I might not have to say goodbye to everything I've done since the last backup. I sure hope we get a more stable release of this thing in a few more months!

further edit: solved, possibly: By copy-pasting the TS_ map tiles from an older save into a post-bugged copy of my plugin, I *think* I've got my tracks and importantly my track scenery layer back without losing anything else from the newer save. fingers crossed! A lot more drama than I was expecting!

 

The train looks incredibly accurate, right down the the colours. What a great way to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the line. Elite work as always.

 

Thanks very much!

I've had to put my routebuilding aside for the week (for the most part,) but I do appreciate the kind comments!

 

My route now has a weather manager of its' very own! (they grow up so fast )

I made my weather manager as a child of the "WeatherManagerPublicBeta" class, since it seemed like the safest bet. Since I managed to get a small amount of work done on the route this weekend after all, I thought this was as good an excuse as any for a screen capture of the north end of the northbound platform at Davisville. No center/centre platform yet, as well as a few odds and ends to be put in before I set my sights on the next target (either getting something drivable on the tracks, or moving on to St. Clair Station.)



for those who may have missed the post (not mine) with the weather-related info, here's a link: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/how-to-select-weather-when-playing-in-editor.75415/

 

Just a bit of progress to report on this time. It's going to be a busy weekend for me, so I thought I'd get a diary entry out up front.

So here is a particularly presentable corner of Davisville Station (note the world-z aligned normal mapping on the retaining wall):


And here is something entirely new; some tunnel! (The curve on the north end of St Clair (sic), as seen looking south to be exact.) Not sure why the lighting is like this, it's supposed to be unlit, and 50 feet underground, to boot:


To be honest, I'm almost afraid to work on the route at the moment, even with regular backups, just on account of having the editor hang while saving, and corrupting my track layout so many times :/

 

Looking fantastic, as always. I hope the editor gets an update before your patience runs out...

 

Do you have auto-save disabled? Or does this happen when you press on 'Save' and/or 'Save All' on your own?

I ask because there is an error related to the auto-save function, which has an equal effect.

 

Unfortunately, it hangs about 1 out of 10 times I manually save, right near the end of the saving process when the message box reads "serializing bulk data." Windows can't restart normally when this happens, either, I have to do a hard boot. Luckily, it doesn't always delete the track layer, but it's a bit of a lottery. Turning off autosaves was one of the first things I did.

Edit: So, like this:

 

Yes, I think it happens with me here too. But 1 to 10 is an acceptable rate I think. The crashes themselves are no problem for me, but the issue is when something got corrupted, you already dedicated some good amount of time to. I really do constantly use the "Save" and "Save All" after a few edits and backup at least after every work day.

Especiallly laying tracks seems to have a high potential to crash the Editor. I remember times where the Editor crashes just every 2 or 3 minutes while doing that and some parts of the laid tracks became inactive so that you can't use or select them anymore. Deleted those also was a problem. But I kept my safe and back up practice since then.

 

So I've only just in the past couple days got the baked lighting working in this tunnel. Lots still to do (including putting track down,) but suffice it to say, I'm not entirely displeased with the results thus far.

 

As a young boy growing up in Toronto, there was many a day when I sat in that front carriage looking out at this view. Occasionally, the tunnels would become circular for a brief period, and then those lights would cast a ring that reminded me of time travel - imagining every ring we were whipping past being another ten years in the past. Your image above reminds me of those days, can't wait to drive it. Very well done, and thank you.

 

I know exactly what you mean! So far working on the Gloucester, and parts of Eglinton have been like that for me, evoking memories left, right and centre.

It feels weird now that I'm starting to model stuff that had already changed before I ever got to see it. I can tell rebuilding the cutting south of St Clair is going to be fun! I'll be restoring plants and light to those long-barren and covered slopes I used to glare at out the window. Retracing the way things have changed and evolved over time. Before I get too philosophical, here's a look at St Clair so far, with a test section of the latest version of my light setup.

 

That photo is bringing back memories. As a kid, I used to shamelessly kneel on the front seat, looking out into the stations and the dark tunnels, completely oblivious to anyone else in the carriage. As an adult, on those rare visits to Toronto, I feel societal peer pressure far too much to do that these days. Instead, I sit in the nearest longitudinal seat and, every so often, take ever-so-casual glances, as if bored. My inner kid still squee's, though, but in a far more dignified and boring manner, lol.

I hope the Union squeal will be there, as the trains take that 90 degree curve. I used to play the BVE route just so I could hear that beautiful squeal.

 

If you're up for it, it would be lovely to have a tutorial thread on how you've done your tunnel and station lighting.

 

2TallTyler It may take a while for me to find the time, so no promises, but I'll see what I can do!

 

Guess who found his old backup of all the reference photos he took on a trip to the Halton County Radial Railway museum in Ontario in 2007, to see the last two Gloucesters, back when he was trying to make a subway route for Microsoft Train Simulator?


Now I have no excuse not to start modelling the cab! And you can bet this will be in the final version:

IMG_0053 by pwilson79 posted Apr 30, 2024 at 8:35 PM

 

Well, things at my day job have been busy this week, so not sure how much energy I'll have this weekend to get anything done on starting to set up the Gloucester in the editor, between playing the new version of the LIRR, and napping. Maybe both at the same time. At least I've got a nice comfy seat!
(reference photo, mine will be cleaner)

 

Actually, I've gotten farther than I thought I might, laying the groundwork for the Gloucester by following this guide:
https://wiki.trainsimcommunity.com/en/train-sim-world/modding/guides/setting-up-a-rail-vehicle

And given the most detailed specs I could find:


I even made this custom tractive-effort-versus-speed curve:

(I think it's fairly accurate; the Gloucester G-1 was beautiful, heavy and slow in equal measure.)

By the end of the weekend, I may have most of the G-1 set up, apart from the rest of the actual model work. Right now I definitely need a break.

​

 

How on earth I never heard from this place yet? There are some really useful tutorials to find there. Thank you very much for linking.

 

I don't say this often enough, but I want to thank everyone on this forum for the tremendous support they've shown not just me but everybody. I feel that I've fallen in with a good crowd.

It was interesting hearing on the roadmap stream today that Alex is thinking of putting together a proper gallery
of our stuff. I don't feel that I'm far enough along in any one aspect of my route to put anything forward myself. (Wish I could devote more time to it, though!) Anyone with intimate knowledge of the subway might think I've been missing things, after all.

At any rate, here is some groundwork I've laid in for the Gloucester interior to work on this weekend, if I'm so inclined; as well as a reference photo of the real deal. Just basic shapes, nothing showy just yet. For easier modeling, I've split it into left-front (shown here) and right-rear halves.


Have a good weekend, everybody!

 

And from this:


I was able to make this reference photo:

I'll be using it for overall dimensions of the control plate, and to model the lettering and those groovy grooves around the throttle and reverser, but perhaps not all tonight. I'll bet Dr. Who wishes he had one of these on the T.A.R.D.I.S.!

 

Looks like a cool way to do things but I think I would take a different approach. First, I would import a human-sized reference model to check basic scaling (for example if the seat is in the correct height to sit on and if the control desk is comfortably reachable). Then I would make rough blockouts of major elements in the cab and try to make them fit just right based on available photos.

With that, you can then work on smaller things (like individual levers and switches) and scale them according to the panel they are placed on or other nearby elements

 

Tomas9970 Somehow it feels more natural to me to kind of do half of everything, then come back later down the line and do the other half, all the while leap-frogging from one aspect of this project to the next. I do have to be a bit more mindful of not painting myself into a corner that way, though, for sure. That said, a lot of the steps you outlined are ones that I follow as well.


I think next I'll re-familiarize myself with the way animations are cued and triggered in UE4 generally, and see if I can track down some info I saw somewhere about DTG's Virtual Human thingamajigs I'll need for setting up interact-able objects (like cab controls.)

p.s. Hey folks, don't forget it's mother's day tomorrow!

 

Just when I thought I had this lighting thing figured out...

 

Solved the problem! I had the station wall's lightmap index set to 0, where it should have been 1, since that's the UV channel I was actually using (or so I thought) for my lightmap.

Man, I must have lost at least a week's progress just wrestling with the lighting on that wall! As you can see, it's working now. I even got some progress in, with a whole day left in my very Canadian Victoria Day long weekend.

 

Decided to use landscape splines to start rebuilding the cutting between St. Clair and Summerhill Stations that has been decked-over for as long as I've been alive. It helps to have some accurate reference material.

The editor started freaking out when I tried laying some track in the cutting at first, saying the layer needed to be made visible before it could be saved (or something like that) and that no track scenery layer was found, and then crashing. I tried regenerating collision and a few random other things without saving, and I'm not sure any of that had anything to do with it, but eventually it "just worked."

You'd better believe I saved after that. I swear, sometimes the editor seems more jittery than an espresso-drinking ferret.

p.s. For anyone with a keen eye, yes, the surveyor's mark at the far end is a giant Blender monkey head.

 

Managed to get hold of some detailed diagrams of the cab of the Gloucester , so I'm starting over with modelling the cab. That'll be the focus of my activities this weekend, when I'm not resting up; this past week at work really took it out of me.

 

TL;DR: didn't get much done on the route this week.

Nice seeing some beautiful shots from others in the community in the roadmap video! I'm tempted to submit a shot or two for consideration for the next one, if I can get any parts in a "final" enough state, by my own stringent standards.

Besides working on the Gloucester to (hopefully) get it ready for eventual testing, I'm finalizing the design and placement of Eglinton Station's platform level (thanks to a reference image of an early design for the station I've come across,) so I'll be able to put in basic signalling and eventually have a simple service between two stations; thus being able to test and get several tricky things working at the same time, before building out the rest of the network; at least in theory.

It occurs to me that the 38 stock DLC from the Bakerloo route would be great for testing out my track network and eventual signalling, if only the Toronto Transit Commission hadn't insisted on using a wacky rail guage. (I wonder if I can find a workaround?...)

I've actually been trying to take a bit of a break from working on the route lately. I say trying because I find that even when I'm not working on it, I'm thinking about working on it, trying to choose which of 7 directions I want to go flying off in next. Of course real working life intrudes from time to time, and the hotter weather isn't exactly helping with any of that.

 

here is the tunnel entrance south of Eglinton, no longer in proxy form (could use some decoration and cleanup though) Now it's just a couple hundred feet of track before I can try my hand at signals, services, getting my rail vehicles working and all that good stuff! Also, I bit the bullet and I'll be going with Training Center trees, for compatibility with seasons and weather, among other reasons. I hope this decision doesn't come back to bite me.

 

I've been learning what works and what doesn't when it comes to baked lighting in UE4. Last week was spent trying to get my station to self-shadow properly with all 3 floors as a single mesh, and interior lights just shone right through to floors below no matter what shadowing settings I had for the actor or the lights. Things looked like this, at platform level:
(day shot, no track yet on this side)
Then I thought I might as well separate the levels and floors, making sure the walls have actual thickness modelled into them. It's always the last thing you'd think of, as they say:

BY DAY, I'm not sure why the TOD shadows aren't applying to the track, if anyone knows, please tell me!

BY NIGHT, Eglinton Station's just about ready for some more station lights and details!:
(still need to add thickness to the ceiling above the platform, but no more light getting in from the lights in the upper levels )

Anyway, that's what I've been doing this weekend. I've enjoyed seeing the amount of progress people have been making in terms of timetables, I expect that will be just as difficult, when I work up the courage to try my hand at it. Not that I have a working Rail Vehicle yet...

 

Not to sound like a broken record, but the lighting and shadowing is still being a pain in the ass, to be honest. Spent most of my long weekend tweaking my platform's model, re-importing in the editor, building lighting , repeat....

One thing that seems to help immensely with shadowing in particular is making sure every face shares lines and vertices with every adjacent face, and that they don't just look like they're connected. this was the case with my platform walls, which I made from many smaller faces, to help with material mapping.

Basically, lighting builds keep turning out weird, and I may end up trying to avoid baked lighting as much as I can. How much trouble have you folks been having with bulding lighting?

As a small tip, unchecking the option to save (lighting) build data when I quit seems to at least prevent the editor from hanging, as I'm sure many of you will have discovered already.

Daytime, lighting unbuilt. Ignore the track elevation, it is one of many things in this shot that are a work in progress.

 

Well, that's the lighting issues sorted!

It looks like I'll have to use dynamic lights almost exclusively in Eglinton station, as the light from static directional lights seems to want to pass straight through literally everything, regardless of shadow settings or anything else I could think of. Next step is to start putting in the stairs, support pillars, and other odds and ends. Then I start working my way back up to the surface, as I still aim to make the whole station explorable on foot.

I like how it's shaping up:


and by night:


Mr. Orange seems to approve:
(should be a video here)

 

Happy to say that my subway stations will feature dope-ass, fully functional escalators!

I could have bought an asset from the marketplace, but this guy's tutorial showed me how to make a nice, spline-based Blueprint one for myself:


I did have to rebuild the "For Loop" and "For each Loop" macros, but I've done that before. Handrails and materials can wait for later, but here's how it looks in action: (Hope this video shows up for you guys, they don't always show up for me.)


P.S.: I've got a sort of business trip coming up in a couple of weeks, but I'm excited I got this working before the trip. Progress may slow somewhat for the next few weeks. Emphasis on may.