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Disappointed

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by ildario77, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I've been a PC player for years and I left that world because I was sick and tired of hardware upgrade, minimum requirements, etc. etc. A console game should play well on a console without any user's tweak. I'm sure your game runs better on a SSD, but we're not talking about a factory console anymore. If I have a Fiat Panda and I install a Ferrari V12 engine on it, then I shouldn't tell a regular Panda user "My Panda reaches 300 Km/h easily" or saying that he overreacts because he complaints about his car's speed ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  2. L89

    L89 Active Member

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    That will only really improve load times. Stutters are often the result of the weak CPUs in consoles and other bottlenecks between resources. A lot of the game will be loaded into RAM once you start the route so I doubt stutters will be reduced by much.

    This game has been designed to work within the limitations of console hardware. In most cases all I see is a loading improvement, not a performance improvement.
     
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  3. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    you got to realise when it comes to consoles that you are using well if your on the standard xbox one and ps4 you are playing on hardware that's basically 7 years old though
     
  4. L89

    L89 Active Member

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    That's true. Even the PS4 Pro and and Xbox One X still have rather weak processors. The focus seems to be all on graphics and resolution. Next gen at least the CPUs will be significantly better than what we have now.
     
  5. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    I can assure you, the issues with stutters in the main, is due to the limitations of the old 5400rpm HDD's used in the consoles, adding a SSD or hybrid drive drastically reduces the length of the stutter, and how often they occur.
     
  6. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    yeah agree glad i just stayed on my original xbox which i got second hand and that has served me well for some time only thing that i have had to do with it is get an external hard drive on it as now having 500gb memory is laughable now. hopefully with this next gen of consoles this will all be reduced
     
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  7. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Want to reword any more of my posts and add you own twist on it?
     
  8. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    ildario77 can you provide some of the headcodes/train service numbers you've had issues with on Koln, so that I can run the actually jobs myself,to see these game breaking stutters you refer to please?

    I'll even record it from my setup and post on YouTube so you can compare.
     
  9. david-bright184169

    david-bright184169 Member

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    The control desk graphics on the ICE are cartoony in my opinion and unlike other cabs don't look real
     
  10. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I would agree the stutters are mostly down to the 5400rpm HDD. To load assets into the game, the PS4/Xbox has to get the asset from the hard drive and load it into RAM. If there is a delay in getting the asset from the hard drive, there’ll be a delay in the asset loading into RAM at which point the game will stutter because it’s waiting for the asset to become available. The 5400rpm hard drives in the consoles are far too outdated and should have been at least 7200rpm.

    PlayStation are making a big deal of how fast the SSD in the PS5 will perform which will enable games to load and unload assets at lightning speeds. In addition, the much larger and faster RAM capacity should mean the PS5 can load much more info into RAM, which should reduced SSD access times. I’m sure DTG will optimise the game for the new consoles once they are available, but even if they don’t, the game should run better anyway as there are fewer bottlenecks.
     
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  11. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Thank you, finally someone saying the same thing as myself!
     
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  12. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, great, but you're all missing the point: a game should be made to run well on a regular machine. That's how the console world works. We're not on PC, we don't have to spend extra money to pimp our consoles just because a game isn't optimized. Is this game too much for a console? Maybe, or maybe just poorly coded.
     
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  13. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    It happens all the time, but better if you start at Köln station with the ICE, daytime.

    And anyway, if you have an SSD it doesn't count as a real test, because is not a factory PS4. But I'm still curious.
     
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  14. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    And well, I think freezing is a lot worse on the overground section of Bakerloo Line, more than the german route.
     
  15. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    I'm really starting to feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall with you. You clearly don't read a full post properly.

    This game pushes as someone said earlier, 7 year old consoles to their limit. It's not poorly coded, and I've said that to get pure optimisation from the engine, Dovetail Games will have to pay Epic Games (the makers of Unreal Engine) to come and view their code etc, thus bumping the price of the game from a VERY cheap £24.99 to £49.99+.

    It's been out nearly a week, and you're claiming it's not fully optimised etc, you are a joker my man. A real class joker. It takes companies months, if not years to fully optimise their games. We've seen optimisation from TSW 1 to TSW 2020 and furthermore a huge step forward in TSW 2.

    You just aren't going to get the optimal performance from that kind of hardware. Users of the newer and more powerful One S, One X and PS4 Pro are reporting issues, but nowhere nearly as badly as you.

    So bro, chill out. Play the game, or don't play the game, wait for patches and revisit, but please stop with the negativity.

    PS - Here's a link to the video I've done for you to compare for stutters etc. Yes there are stutters within this video, yes they occur as data is loaded in, but it's in areas where there are a huge amount of assets to load in. Excuse fumbling at start, first time I've driven the ICE. (Bare in mind it's still encoding the HD version on Youtube)

     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  16. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Jesus christ. Your stating that it happens on everything, I'm giving you my view of the game from my Xbox One X with SSD, for you to compare against other videos you've watched using the Xbox One X. It's a test to see if the stutters is as bad as you claim it is.
     
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  17. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, your video is low-res, at least on my phone, and fluidity can't be 100% appreciated if not streamed at 60 fps. If your performances are comparable with the Matt's stream I posted before, ok, I'll have a comparison. Anyway, those little pauses are noticeable, especially near Köln, near the bridge and outside the station. But remember that what really didn't like was the stuttering on Bakerloo, with almost 1 sec pauses between stations in the overground section. Bart was the Schnellfahrstrecke hater :D

    I would pay 69,99 for a well made game. It seems a lot of people here is desperately trying to justify every single problem (already noticed that on TSW 2020). As I already said, nobody forced a clearly PC-focused company to enter a totally different market, with different customers and different needs. Are you in? So, give us a proper game. Can't you do it? No problem, I'll keep playing GTA5. How can you uphold a company that didn't fix major bugs for years? Missing tunnels, underpowered locos, broken sounds, etc. etc. etc. Apart from DTG loyalists (beware of them, they're out there :D ), reviews and opinions on the web are not so favorable about DTG work. But well, I'm getting tired of this and I'll keep playing Queen's Park - Elephant & Castle for some more. Peace.
     
  18. L89

    L89 Active Member

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    Chill out. Just giving my two cents on it. In my own experiences, SSDs don't make much of a difference other than to initial load times on console. You can have a fast SSD but will still be tied down by the weak processor in current generation consoles. Since they are simulating a lot of things, this is what causes a lot of the issues.

    I kinda expect that as the game is dealing with more distant scenery and possibly other effects that you wouldn't see in an enclosed space. Although I have to admit some of the stations are very detailed inside and performance has been good inside. When we get more services added I hope performance doesn't go down.

    The German route feels very empty to me. Maybe see one train go by me in the opposite direction for one service. Two or three if I'm lucky.
     
  19. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Again didn't read the full post...

     
  20. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I can't help myself. It's 'cause I like you so much and I cannot wait to reply your posts :D Seriously, just saw the HD version. Fluidity is really great, no doubt about it. Micro-pauses are there but they're also on PC. Are you using an external drive, right? I'm not an expert about that.
     
  21. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Again I've said time and time again what my setup is. It's in the description on Youtube, but as I like you so much I will post it again below.

    Xbox One X
    Sandisk 1TB SSD in a USB 3.1 caddy
    BenQ 4K 28" monitor

    The USB bus speed is considerably faster than the internal HDD bandwidth, so you get fast read/write times from a USB hard disk on console. L89 states the processor is the bottleneck, yes it is in the original PS4 and PS4 slim, but not so much in the PS4 Pro, it's bottleneck is the IDE/SATA bus bandwidth, but we are getting nerdy now.
     
  22. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the video. Thanks for sharing. It does look smoother than my ps4 slim but there are still slowdowns and it certainly doesn't feel like you are travelling at 250kmph. In my opinion GWE with the HST runs smoother at high speed and that route is 3 years old so you would expect it to be worse not better.

    I can't comment on whether SSDs are the answer, I'm not techy enough but in my opinion gameplay smoothness should be number 1 on the list when DTG tests out the game on consoles. I certainly don't expect to shell out £80 for an SSD to make the game run a bit smoother If they have to tone down the scenery and draw distance than so be it but a 2 year old game, as it is on consoles, should be much smoother than what TSW2 is right now. They have actually gone backwards on this front. East Coastway is significantly smoother than the Bakerloo.

    I tried rebuilding the database on my ps4 today as another user suggested and its made no difference whatsoever. If anything its actually made the game perform worse.
     
  23. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    yeah but that routes quality on gwe is awful i went to play it and i can see the drastic change the game looks over the years.
     
  24. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    In all fairness, driving a locomotive you don't really get a sense of the speed you're doing. The game recreates that feeling quite well. I haven't driven any locomotives past 75mph but the sense of speed is pretty spot on in this.

    I'm just prepping a Bakerloo line video. There are mini pauses on the approach to Willesden Junction, Harlesden and Stonebridge Park. I think I've narrowed the reason down to those stations trigger loading of the empty stock in the depot at Stonebridge Park, and the game triggers load in of 5 trains at Willesden, 5 at Harlesden and then 3 at Stonebridge (shorter pause).

    Again we are stepping back a few steps here, and it's all about optimisation of routes. GWE and ECW are massively optimised and ported across. The Bakerloo line is brand new with zero optimisations. It's also like I said in a previous post, everyone has a different experience.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  25. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Looking forward to the TSW 2 refinements for GWE. Could you private message me what you mean by awful route quality? (so we don't go OT).
     
  26. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    Sure probably actually should better word my post. rather than awful quality I would say it does take allot of detail to run it smooth I don't know it could be just me but the cab on the 43 so bright compared to when I went into something like eastcoastway. Not saying that it's not fun or the quality makes it unplayable but I barely noticed a change detail wise from when it came out in founders edition to tsw 2020 tees I'm sure if they were to for someone reason remake the route it would look completely different and run differently I guess that's what I was trying to say. Again though this could be just my experience from the TV I used as I have a new one and that I still play on an old xbox one
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  27. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    With the route planner there aren't AI trains at the depot, but pauses are still there.
     
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  28. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Which then indicates a possible bad texture or building that's used somewhere along that section 3 times. Will have to break a video down and watch at half speed to see if I can spot the offending item.

    ildario77 Here's the Bakerloo Line on Xbox One X with SSD.

     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  29. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. It runs pretty well. Freezing still there but the average frame rate is way higher. It would be great to see an FPS counter to compare it to a regular console (DTG streams, for example).
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  30. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Will provide some of those videos tomorrow for you!
     
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  31. bsrdj

    bsrdj New Member

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    got tsw2 on pc and got it for my ps4 few days ago. pc looks good and can draw all the cars on sand patch grade. but on my ps4 can only draw 10-12 cars. other ps4 owners see this?
     
  32. richard cooper

    richard cooper Member

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    Sorry to show my age related tech ignorance, what is a SSD.
     
  33. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    It's short for Solid state drive. So it employs the same memory technology that's in modern mobile phones to improve speed and performance of data transfer.
     
  34. richard cooper

    richard cooper Member

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  35. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the posts in this thread I can only draw to conclusion that your hardware is at fault, surely if these “stutters” and “freezing” issues were platform wide and are as terrible and game breaking we would see a lot more posts about it. Could it be that your just hanging on to this one complaint no matter how minor it may be?
     
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  36. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, at the end of the day you guys will convince me that the problem is in my brain :D Seriously, I understood that an almost one second pause is totally acceptable for many of you. Not for me. Maybe I shouldn't care so much. The only interesting thing that came out of this thread was the great improvement using an SSD. It doesn't solve the issues, but at least makes the game smoother.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  37. Railmaster

    Railmaster Active Member

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    If the PS5 appears and some install TSW2 on it, they will certainly complain even more, because it is not or will not be coordinated with the PS5. And when TSW3 then appears, designed for the PS5, there will be even more whining because it is not worth buying a PS5 for it ...

    The PS4 is at the end and you can't do much more with it in the code or design. For the fact that compromises have to be found here, it turned out well! Otherwise, the level of detail would be criticized, etc. You just have to die a death - as we Germans say.

    Sometimes it jerks and stutters with me too. E.g. with two diesel engines in double tension. If you then give full throttle from the outside, a lot of smoke develops and it is no longer liquid. However, if you only move a little further away with Cam, it is immediately better. Something like that happens under certain conditions, you can ignore it.

    I can get angry more about other things, e.g. lost profile, any bugs and glitches and conversions in TSW2 that I personally don't like. Nothing is perfect, and certainly not for everyone.

    TSW is not a first person shooter, where every frame and 0 latency count. And everyone who has ever taken the train knows that trains jerky ...;)
     
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  38. Patrick Kolinski

    Patrick Kolinski Active Member

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    you right bro, i see a lot PS4 users have the same issues, when you creating a game you need to test it on every console on every normal pc you have to release that damn game. Dovetail always like to release something that is not ready to use from their customers. Everyone waiting for their fixes, an update then another update etc.....etc....it's normal for them.

    :D:D:DPs. Funny to see people talking about different parts of ps4 made somewhere else or things like that...hahaha... normally the game have to run smoothly..if not that's not console problem (if you use it properly) it's developer problem only...Still playing the game as it is and i "pray" for updates.

    THAT'S ALL GUYS.
     
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  39. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    In terms of testing, no amount of testing can prepare a game for a world wide release. There’s just not a big enough team and an amount of time that could come close to equaling the amount of people and time that will play on launch day. It may be that I have always been interested in game development and the game industry that I can look at DTG and look at TSW2 and see that even if it has some performance hiccups that they have put in the effort to make a better Train simulator for us.
     
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  40. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    The only reason that could make me accept this game as it is it's the price. 29,99 is actually a very good price for a new game, although we know DTG makes money with pricey add-ons. If you guys are happy with these products, I'm sincerely glad for you, but there are objective flaws I can't ignore, and some of them break the magic so bad. As I said, I would pay 69,99 for a AAA train simulator.
     
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  41. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Enough. DTG Protagonist please lock this thread.
     
  42. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Nice one, man. Is it enough for you? Turn notifications off.
     
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  43. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Just to make things clear for the last time, then you can destroy this thread, or the whole forum, I don't care:

    1) the game has consistent fps and stuttering problems, on both PS4 and Xbox

    2) some users care, some don't, but they're still there

    3) SSD drives can help improving the game performances but can't get rid of micro-pauses

    4) my PS4 isn't faulty :D

    5) I'm already at level 34, because, unbelievably, I'm not just posting stupid rants, but I'm also playing this beautifully imperfect game. Peace.
     
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  44. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    Don't assume I have notifications turned on.

    Well you keep coming back to this thread and posting dude. Like you feel your point hasn't been made and need to have the last word.
     
  45. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Here's what I've learned so far from reading this thread. As expected with new software, there appear to be quite a few issues that many people have raised.

    Some of the people with issues are regulars on the forums and have been previously critical.

    There have been posts from members who have never posted on the forums before or rarely post on the forums who are having issues.

    There have also been posts from one or two people who are rarely critical, who have experienced issues.

    So, it would be fair to say that there is a wide spectrum of people across the whole community who have experienced some kind of issue and felt the need to raise them.

    In response to those issues, here's what I have learned from the usual suspects. Those who will not have a bad word thought or spoken about their software developer of choice.

    1. It's Microsoft's fault.
    2. It's Sony's fault.
    3. It's Steam's fault.
    4. Their must be something wrong with your XBOX.
    5. Their must be something wrong with your Playstation.
    6. Their must be something wrong with your PC.
    7. It's a UE 4 issue.
    8. It's because of the COVID restrictions.
    9. You must be doing something wrong.

    So, please before making wild accusations that the software has any issues please read the above list, realise that if items 1 to 8 aren't applicable, then point 9 on the list must apply!

    As an appendix to this post, no I don't own the software, so no I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about. My glass is not half empty. I am not angry nor do I hate any business or individual.

    Disclaimer: All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
     
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  46. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant, mate :D I loved the "usual suspects".
     
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  47. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Nail hit there Longo! By commenting on these issues I am not trying to blame anyone I am just trying to bring these issues to the attention of DTG in the hope that they may be able to make improvements in the future. Feedback is important, especially constructive criticism, not criticism for criticisms sake. The issue I have is people who claim the stuttering and FPS drops are not an issue or don’t exist and then fail to provide evidence, or blame my PS4 or make suggestions that actually make things worse. Smooth gameplay is extremely important but it’s simply not there in TSW2 on console. With East Coastway I thought we were heading in the right direction on this but TSW2 seems like a step back. I’m yet to see a video, other than a couple taken on PC, that doesn’t stutter on Bakerloo or Köln-Aachen. The closest to no stuttering was Bryers video above.

    And yes I am enjoying the game too and have been playing plenty of it in the last week.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  48. Bryer

    Bryer Active Member

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    I've always acknowledged there's been stutters and micro pauses, just trying to help you guys achieve the same as my videos above or help figure out what's causing them so they can be worked on and smoothed out.
     
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  49. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I 100% agree with you. And yes, when ECW came out I thought DTG finally got it. But...
     
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  50. richard cooper

    richard cooper Member

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    How would you connect an external drive to a playstation.?
     

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