Dissapointing Rolling Stock In New Routes

The decision lies with Focus Interactive and the shareholders, not DTG staff.

"Instead of putting 2 locomotives in the next route DLC, can we charge £29.99 for that route with one locomotive included, and then release the second locomotive as a standalone DLC for £11.99 a few weeks later?"

This is what they are doing now with the new Fife Circle DLC....

Rivet are making a Class 170 which will be included in the route on release, while Skyhook are releasing their updated Class 158 as DLC for the route shortly after.

If people rush to buy both and don't complain, you can expect this to become a regular practice.

TLDR -
If people throw cash and don't complain, keep milking them over and over again.

 

I think the Fife Circle thing is more to do with 2 3rd parties than anything to do with DTG.

 

I sincerely hope they will have the sense to layer the 710 in other places, they’ve got plenty of options around London, that is if they can leave ScotRail alone for a bit. TFL are every bit as generous with licensing and proud to have the Overground and Underground in this game

 

That's a possibility too.

Though Skyhook do stand to make more profit from selling the reskinned and updated 158 separately at £4.99 - £11.99 a pop, than including it in the route and hoping Rivet Games give them a 10% cut of the route sales after giving Steam the first 30% Steam tax.

 

Good list, but don't forget the Class 26 & 27 "McRat"

DTG are on a Scottish mission right now.

 

Top and tail 27s, 126 dmus and 47s with Mk2 coaches/DBSO for Glasgow to Edinburgh Legends.

 

How about Class 303 for Cathcart Circle Legends.

 

Now that would be great though not sure where they would get the sounds.

 

Layering is a bit of a double edged sword to me. Sure, it's great if previously purchased rolling stock finds a home on a new route, but it comes at a cost where you may have buy 2 or 3 additional DLCs to fully experience the complete timetable and all of it's AI traffic. *Enjoy the empty stations but buy these other DLCs if you want to see other rolling stock (or parked otherwise)*

In that sense, I'd prefer a substitution approach instead as a DLC in my mind should offer a complete experience (timetable/ AI traffic wise). Especially considering the asking price (and the periodic base game fee). It easily adds up.

For example the latest German/Austria does not have an express service unless you own the 101. That easily could have been accommodated with a dosto for those who don't have the 101.

(Or they could have added the 101 as an AI service only which becomes drivable once you buy the 101 dlc. There's no greater way to advertise your other dlc that way)

 

gogglesguy

The thing is a timetable is a timed service pattern. You can't substitute a 101 hauled express with a 143 because it will not be able to keep to the schedule because it's slower, so you'd need separate timetables for substitutions. I think Maik has explained that a while ago.

 

We know they wont layer it onto anything its DTG fgs. They will come up with a reason not to layer it onto Bakerloo Line.

I wish they would prove us wrong just 1 time. Extend Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction and POSSIBLY Euston and obviously layer the 710.

 

The fact that the Semmering 1116 will layer back into Salzburg-Rosenheim is indeed exactly this: A newer DLC layering back into an older DLC.
The difference is that they built the Salzburg-Rosenheim timetable already with the 1116 in mind.
Back then, when Bakerloo released I'm sure there were no plans at all for the 710. So the timetable we have has no 'placeholder' for it.

 

a shame it's so difficult to add new rolling stock as layers or substitutions. hope to train interns and some side projects of devs more routes get the WSR or Köln to Aachen upgrade plans. RSN to siegen for example is something that already is in TSC so wouldn't even need so much research into uncharted territories.

 

I don’t understand what DTG are so frightened of? Or is it just that it’s too much work and they’d rather take the easy option of producing some new linear route with another solitary unit to run on it.
I think they should build on current stock and adding layers, they should continue the Fife Circle idea with London. Fife is a step in the right direction. I hope it’s the future.

 

It is a lot of work to add to a timetable. Requires a dev who might not always be available to actually put those in manually, however many there are. If it's not been built with layers in mind, it means having to modify the timetable even more so they fit. Then there's the whole simulation which can take hours depending on how big the tt is. If anything goes wrong, they have to fix it and rerun the simulation. Simulating and fixing adds up over time

 

Is it your soul purpose to defend DTGs bs? They cant add to a timetable because its too much work but they can make 2 timetables for Bakerloo Line? Two timetables for Koln-Aachen?

Its incredibly inconsistent for them to layer some but not all. They added 375 services to BML for what reason? They couldnt add the 700 to BML yet a community member could. They most likely wont layer the 710 onto Bakerloo Line but bet me a community member will.

 

So we’ll pay for the work in the asking price. Produce a good product, word gets round and lots of people buy it.

 

Bakerloo and koln aachen are passion projects done by 1 singular person in his own personal free time. Those aren't official dtg projects. Not a fair comparison in my opinion

 

Bakerloo and Koln Aachen were not developed by one person in their spare time, they were made by the development team.

A route made by one person (eg. Niddertalbahn) would be much higher quality and longer to make

 

I believe the extra timetables were done as a passion project by Joe though.

 

Wasn't reading it properly, my bad, I thought rennekton was refering to the routes development, not the timetable

 

Fair enough, I can very much see how you did that though as the wording does confuse things if you are just skim reading.

 

It’s encouraging that multiple units will be running on the Fife Circle consequently there will be multiple timetables to go with them, this is exactly how it should be. It’s a simulation of the real thing.
I believe the memory limitations of consoles are the prime reason more layers, and hence timetables, are not added to a route, rather than DTG’s wish not to do so. The larger the timetable the greater the memory drain as ai trains are drawn on our screens. PC’s have no problem with this, but the people running the games on consoles have to turn their handles so fast to generate memory that there is a meltdown or the neighbours lights go out.

 

Maybe you don't realize that in order to add a layer to a preexisting route, they basically have to throw out the timetable and build a new one.

 

One interesting thing to note that I said in another post.

When Clinchfield was released in TSW2, the stock was mostly all new models.

-The F7A/F7B
-The CRR Double Door Boxcar
-The FGE Reefer Car
-The 3 Bay Beth Coal Hopper
-The 4 Bay Beth Coal Hopper
-The "Santa Fe" Style CRR Caboose.

6 new pieces of stock for 1 route that aside from the locos and the caboose were never used again...

 

Console users arent holding anything back. We have plenty of timetables where some layers arent present for consoles but are for PC players. Example BML, PC and Gen 9 have 375, 465 and 166 layers where as Gen 8 dont have any layers.

 

A pack with this many new locos would have to be about £120. Remember, single loco DLC cost £15. We have never had packs like this in TSW and never will.

 

Single locomotive dlcs would be adequate as opposed to packs. Both 1971 and 2015 fleets on GWE are lacking key types.

 

Yes I noticed that with SEHS. Maybe that’s the future then - 2 timetables, one for each operating system. It’s a pity you guys can’t enjoy all the excellent mods. I think if I had a wind up, steam powered console (only kidding), I’d seriously think about getting a pc. You can still play on your tv.

 

Slightly condescending reply if I’m honest. Maybe you don’t realise that many of the people that work at DTG, and their family of devs, want this game to be the best it can, hence examples like DTG Liam and DTG Joe are happy to go the extra mile. DTG Matt too is always enthusiastic and also has his project. This imaginary world that some of you have where we’re all bullying DTG for adding layers that they don’t want to do is just in your minds I think. If you feel the need to be like a concerned Mother to DTG fine, but they are rail enthusiasts big time to!

Also you don’t have to build a timetable to layer in ai trains, examples 700 on ECML, SE services on BML. Adding the Azuma to Edinburgh would come under this heading.

Having said that I think the vast majority of players who are less concerned about DTG’s welfare in having to work a bit harder to earn their £30 dlc cost, would welcome extra layers with a timetable included.

£30 for a route with just one train running on it has very little replayabilty and hence additional trains that are already in the game should be added to it if at all possible. That’s what a simulation is - simulates the real thing. Word then gets round that the devs have pushed the boat out in this route and everyone buys it. Result all are happy and the tills ring for the devs, apart from a handful of people who think us demanding customers are forcing DTG to slave away in the office into the early hours, aren’t we horrible?

 

Good point, are you guys telling me that the guy who added the 700 to the BML timetable redid the whole 1000+ services and then some?

 

Very true, one guy did all that and hasn’t earned a penny. If he can do it then so can paid devs. I think if you are a true rail fan and the love for the game is really there, and it is a rewarding game to play, then it can be done. Only fly in the ointment might be the CEO of DTG who has a slightly more financial view.

 

He (trainsimcz) is a great modder and has done some absolutely fantastic work.

He also isn't paid.

I think people should go back and read some of Maik Goetz' posts on the effective return on investment - close to none - he realized from his early passion projects. Basically, a professional cannot maintain a hobbyist's attitude. Suddenly time is money. This is the case for a small indie developer like TSG, and even more the case for DTG where devs have to be paid. 1 dev * 1 hr of work = X GBP. For any revision to an existing route, does the cost of the requisite number of dev-hours come out to less than the anticipated increase in sales revenue for that route? If not, then it falls out of the professional and into the hobbyist realm: and DTG isn't a hobby shop.

 

That's a little too black and white for me, I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle, where most solutions are to be found - in the grey area. Otherwise it turns into some sort of a dystopian nightmare in which DTG become this ruthless company solely hellbent on profit for giving back the minimum in return.

I'd say that DTG Liam and a few others have proved that theory wrong with the remaster of WSR. Many of the DTG employees are rail hobbyists and they bring their passion to DTG products, whether remastering a route or adding timetable layers. None of this was necessary from a purely business point of view (the previews of the products never promised these extra layers), as it made the company no profit whatsoever, but it was done to increase our and their own enjoyment, and the spin-off to that was our appreciation of the company going forward, think of it as good PR without needing to employ an expensive PR firm.

You mention some simplified mathematical equation of profit to work ratio. Remember no company is successful by purely doing the basics; "I build this and you buy it". For customers to purchase an item those customers need to feel they are getting good value for money and more importantly they need to like the vendor. That is why companies hire in very expensive PR firms to make them look good. DTG don't hire PR firms, rather they populate the railway side of their business with hobbyists whom are obviously very knowledgeable and very enthusiastic about the subject matter. That comes across from their participation in these forums and especially their online streams. As players too they also want these extras.

Think of "going the extra mile" and adding what are wrongly perceived as free extras that they can't afford to do, as their investment into their own company and by so doing raising the happiness of the customer base. Happy customers buy more products and tell their friends. .

 

The TSW and TSC teams at DTG are good people. Constructive criticism is to be encouraged and there's lots of it within this thread but I don't think it's fair to accuse them of being "lazy".

Might I suggest that the issue is not laziness but classic signs of people trying their best to work to demanding deadlines. How would people feel if, like in my situation, the quality of output is being affected by unreasonable demands from management and then someone says "Nah, it's just you being too bone idle to do a good job".

It's not on. It doesn't help people's mental health. Show some respect for the feelings of individuals please.