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Dlcs And Longevity

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Rob39, Mar 8, 2020.

  1. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Interested to know. If DTG chose 3 main routes. GWE, MSB and NEC, and every other UK/GER/U.S cycle these routes were expanded, picking up new trains, Depots, Yards,industries and points of interest as the network got bigger. Whilst inbetween these cycles maybe we got a route from another Country or we got the 20 mile switcher routes.
    By now we could be talking London-Exeter, with Plymouth/Penzance coming up in the next 12/18 Months. NEC could be heading out towards Boston or Washington and we could have a Main Spessart Bahn route big enough to incorporate ICE trains.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  2. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I could see Dtg do a commuter rail line in Boston Massachusetts.
     
  3. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is that if you start off with, for example, GWE and you have trains from Paddington going to all these various destinations, but in the game, they all end at Reading, how do you handle that when the route actually continues as far as, say Oxford? Do you reset everything so that people who have already driven the service now have to do it again, or does the service stay complete , but new players will have to work that bit harder to achieve their "Drive XX services" trophy? And then, when the route gets extended again to Worcester, does the process start again, with progress wiped out? And again when it reaches Hereford...

    Extending a route seems a perfectly feasible thing to do, but I think it would need to be with the addition of new branches so that existing timetables aren't affected. On the LIRR, they could add in the Port Washington line (along with a shiny new M9) and that wouldn't affect the million services we've already run out to Hicksville, but if they extended that line to Ronkonkoma, you'd end up with the same problem as above - I've already driven the Ronkonkoma service as far as Hicksville so is it complete or not on my progress chart? Having the second half of the journey as a separate service wouldn't be a satisfactory solution unless you could tick off both halves in one single run (without going back to the menu) but I'm not sure how they'd make that work. Heaven knows DTG have enough trouble tracking our progress without that kind of curveball.

    I was thinking about this earlier for the Cross City Line I proposed - if they built the Birmingham New Street to Bromsgrove line, plus the Redditch branch and set up all of the local EMU stopping services which terminate at those two points, it would presumably be fine to then extend that line from Bromsgrove (where the overhead wires end) out to Worcester to add in the New Street - Hereford DMU services without affecting the existing service timetable. They could then add the split after Bromsgrove for the CrossCountry services to Cheltenham and Bristol, which would use most of the existing line, plus New Street and University stations, but none of the changes would affect the timetable that came before it. Just needs a bit of forward thinking! :)
     
  4. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t mind ronkonkoma Branch or the Port Jefferson Branch on TSW.
     
  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Both of which probably wouldn't work as route extensions for exactly the reasons I outlined in my post, which you've quoted, but don't appear to have read! :D
     
  6. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    The sensible way would probably be to have the service end at Reading, and immediately become a different service heading to Oxford (which is drivable only if you own the Reading-Oxford part). This already happens at Paddington when the train becomes a different service in the reverse direction, or at Reading when the last passenger services of the day immediately become sort "to the depot" services. That way nothing gets reset.

    Of course the sensible way might be end up being the way it is done.

    In my mind the issues are:
    1. This sounds like it'd need a lot of forward planning to allow it to come together well.
    2. DLC for DLC is probably a bit of a hard-sell already (someone on this forum came up with semi-reliable guesses of sales for engine vs route DLC and the engine ones were about 10x lower). The chunks could be stand-alone, but then each one has to appeal on its own.
    3. It doesn't lend itself to huge variety in gameplay or rolling-stock so might not appeal to people who want to dabble with a bit of everything.
     
  7. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a very important factor. Everyone would probably pay more for a DLC of their local or favourite route, and the chances of DTG stumbling across that (or at least, something approximating to it, with the right trains and the right sort of area) would be far higher with lots of varied DLC, rather than more and more GWE stuff.
     
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  8. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that if DTG pulled out all the stops for a list of priority licenses.
    A continuous GWE extension for example, could pick up the TSW aspects such as loading, shunting and unloading passenger runs, Freight with the 60,66,70 JNAs, Ballast trains, Intermodals, Oil and ofcourse the heavy aggregate which would end up being a full service run.
    A night sleeper for modern loco hauled?
    The 387s could go some way to satisfying the modern emu crowd.
    Introduce the GWR 158s around Westbury or Bristol depending on which route the line took.
    As said above the trains would pause at Reading and terminate, unless you have the extensions.
    As it would be every other cycle there would be scope for something completely different such as a WSR, NTP or TVL. Then repeat same model with Germany and the U.S. DTG could put out a poll as to which routes to go with.
     
  9. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I like this idea a lot, but wonder how economically feasible it would be. Personally i LOVE the setting of NEC:NY, and would gladly pay to see it extended towards Boston and Washington (and buy additional locos/rolling stock). Same with GWR. NEC also has bugs that need to be fixed (tunnel textures, signalling), which would maybe happen with this more focused development model.
     
  10. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    You are right, of course, but the key thing appears to be that none of the services in the core route disappear off the map in any direction that later becomes an extension.
    This wouldn't work. For someone who owns only Paddington - Reading, trains disappear off the map west of Reading. For people who own the Reading - Oxford extension, the same trains will either continue to Didcot or Oxford or else disappear off the map in a slightly different position. The actual in-game timetable includes all those movements on and off the map that we cannot drive (or we cannot drive very far), as well as the journeys that are actually listed in the Timetable screens.

    There is a way that DTG could introduce extensions, and that would be to offer it in the form of a completely separate route. Reading - Oxford would still be a DLC that is only available to people who own GWE (to make it both standalone and an extension would probably be more work than is justified), but what you would get is a the extension combined with a duplicate GWE route, and you would find original GWE and the extended GWE Paddington - Oxford as two separate routes when you play the game. There is nothing to suggest this is a path DTG want to go down and, let's face it, with GWE where would it end? You suggest Oxford; I am sure some other people would like Swindon or Bristol and there have been quite a few on here clamouring for Berks and Hants, so that would be three separate extensions that many people would only be interested in one of. If DTG did all three extensions, that would be eight different combinations that different people might have.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to see extensions. Reading to Oxford is one of the more sensible ideas I have seen for an extension as well, but it could be quite difficult for DTG to manage.
     
  11. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    My view is that, given the rate of technical progress and improvement with TSW, that route extensions will not be around for a very very long time in TSW. Would you really want a route built out to 2016 standards linked to a route built out using improved methods in 2020, or 2024...?

    It would probably be difficult enough to join RRO to RSN - because you'd probably have to considerably re-work RSN to get the join working well.

    The current limit to route length is a good thing (in my opinion) - for now - because it reflects the improvement in quality. The current variety of countries/routes should probably be expanded, rather than reduced to create a few longer routes, in my view. But if DTG ever reach a point where it isn't feasible to improve their construction methods, and they become much much faster with production, and if variety in routes becomes less important or diluted, then yes - I could see longer routes coming in - eventually.

    But that said - DTG could provide more longevity for the existing routes, by:

    - providing more challenging scenarios;
    - fixing game features like the medal system;
    - creating a proper difficulty system (driving aids);
    - bringing in performance features like fuel/energy use; and,
    - bringing in different driving conditions such as ice, leaves, etc.
     
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  12. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t mind seeing Boston they could do MBta commuter rail system.
     
  13. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    So what if for example Padd to Bristol was in 3 seperate DLCs, and also treat as such.
    Get to Reading, the service ends, with or without the extension. Then theres some script that gives the extension owner the opportunity to continue onto a Reading Didcot service similar to how Journey mode works. Once at Didcot, service ends again and the question is repeated, “you have the extension to Bristol. Do you want to load straight to a Didcot- -Bristol service?” We already get prompted with this sort of thing when free roaming and triggering scenarios.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  14. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I think that this could be done. But would you be happy with it if:

    - each time you changed to the next bit of route DLC there was a very long loading time, while your current DLC is replaced
    - the train that you are in becomes slightly different, with better or worse features, depending on direction of travel, at each changeover
    - the quality of the route section completely changes to a design method used four years earlier/later
    - the station you are at gets upgraded/downgraded

    So basically you skip going back to the menu, and spending a few seconds there, but everything else changes as if you had gone back through the UI.

    It is possible to build longer routes in one go - but if you want to do London - Swansea, at TSW quality, then DTG would have to:

    - throw all resources into it
    - take a long time on it (with no other DLC in production)
    - hold the quality down to the level that was used at the start of the process, which stifles innovation and efficiency

    And then the finished product would only appeal to about a third of the current US/German/British market, and would be much less affordable, so you'd only capture an even smaller subset of the target customer-base.

    Although I often think that DTG gets a lot of things wrong (like their ridiculous marketing speak; shocking quality of the UI; inability to get the dev to fix the DB BR 155, etc.), they also do get a lot of things right - and the way that they curate content on TSW is pretty decent, in my view. This results in a number of short routes (compared to TS2020/Railworks.... and of course, the TT Isle of Man road course), but you do get a good variety of traction types and working environments, even if some locos are sometimes duplicated. You have to learn to drive each train - which is part of the fun, methinks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Simple enough, you keep the existing achievements, then have additional ones "drive Reading to Didcot", "Drive Didcot to Bristol" etc

    If you make it that the base DLC is PAD-RDG and you must have all of the extensions in the right order in order for them to work then this would be fine, and it's a proven DLC model as JustTrains did it with their Western Mainlines and Midland Mainline DLC

    This is a good point, but again in simulation terms IS considered acceptable even if in other game types it isn't. The question for me is whether the fundamental systems (HUD, signalling, maps etc) get updated over time rather than whether a transit van by the side of the road in Paddington looks the same as one in Bristol, ie the modelling progresses across the route. Much more irksome if you don't get flashing yellows in London but you do in Wiltshire or Gloucestershire
     
  16. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    If I arrived at Reading with a GWR green HST 43194?
    Came out, then back in for Reading-Didcot with a GWR HST 43195. Yes I could live with that. As for routes being of slightly better standard?I could also live with. After all, how much improved could they be apart from the station announcements screens and such.
    One thing I would do though. Is ensure that the Paddington to Reading is fully wired. This would serve the 387 and a future IET, and also would still fall in that sort of timeframe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The route is set in the period before wires were complete.
    If you make a new era and make it IET etc then you remove the class 43s...
     
  18. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    They co existed for 18 months
    In 2015 there was far more FGW liveried stock than GWR green. That didnt seem to matter?
    IET service debut was in 2017.
    Class 43s we in service until last year.
    Apart from the wires. Padd to Reading wont have changed so much that it cant be imagined as 2016/17
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yup, running on diesel, so as long as that's what they do in game, great
    Unfortunately DTG haven't got the rights to make it in game (not DTG's fault per se) so it can't happen
     
  20. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    No they havent got the rights currently ..... IETs have been running on wires for a while now, not just diesel.
     
  21. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    Could Dtg do a commuter rail line like Boston to Lowell Massachusetts or Boston to Haverhill Massachusetts which line would be shorter?
     

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