Does Anyone Think Us Freight May End Up Being Dropped Like Steam Hasin Tsw

Sim Rail will bring out an american route for consoles too.

 

I have my doubts if freight is such unpopular.

Are there sales figures for all dlc's and platforms available?

 

I feel like American freight may be dropped but German is here to stay not sure about British.

 

It's infuriating because for all its bugs, Clinchfield still stands out to me as my go-to example of one that otherwise gets everything right in aim and execution, for exactly the experience I want out of a route like this.

If I had to desert island discs it and pick a handful of DLCs for TSW to be stranded on an island with, it would top that list as one of my most played routes.

 

You reviewed the IC&E Matt which I built for TSC Steam Workshop (partially) and I wasn't even in the US.


So it is possible to accurately recreate it because you can see it from the public roads.

Plus a single track freight route from Pingree Grove to Byron is perfect whilst we have passengers (no logos is fine) trains to Chicago.

In this short review of the Elgin Big Timber scenario there is a decent look at Big Timber.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=748072134

BasicBill has a lot of videos on the IC&E and this one is on the line I have suggested.




This video is impressive and is a selling point! Especially if we can put the other track in there.

Then the Metra trains (which won't have logos due licensing)

 

I've always been a fan of freight trains and freight-only routes. I would love to see some classic 1940s-70s era freight routes (especially WP's Feather River Canyon, SP Donner Pass, PRR or Conrail Horseshoe Curve, SP Peninsula Corridor, GN or BN Marias Pass and/or Stevens Pass and Santa Fe's Seligman Sub, Raton Pass, SP/ATSF Tehachapi Pass, and/or a vintage Cajon Pass. I want some modern routes, too, including UP Evanston Sub: Ogden, UT-Green River, WY, Alaska RR: Anchorage-Seward, Brightline/FEC Miami-West Palm Beach/Orlando, BNSF Seligman Sub, a modern BNSF/UP Tehachapi, BNSF Marias Pass, and BNSF Stevens Pass.

The vintage routes could give us some new locomotives. Baldwin, Alco, FM, and early EMD diesels are needed. (especially the FM Trainmaster, EMD F3/F7/F9 A/B, EMD E-Units, SD7/SD9, GP7/GP9, Baldwin VO1000, Sharknose RF-16, and/or Centipede, Alco S2/S4, RS-3, RS-11, and/or RSD-15). UP's giant diesels should be added (DD35/DD35A, Gas Turbines, U50s, U50Cs, DDA40Xs, and/or Alco C855s) GE U-Boats and Dash-7s would be cool, too.
For modern power, we need the Siemens Chargers, P42DC Genesis, GP50, GP60/M/B, GP40-2, SD50/SD40E, ET44C4/AC, SD70ACe-T4, SD70M/SD70MAC, SD60/M/I, SD75M/I, C40-8/C40-8W/C41-8W, C39-8, AC6000CW, SD90MAC/SD90-43MAC/SD70ACU, and/or C44-9W/C40-9/C40-9W/AC44C6M/AC44C4M.

I'd love to see some steam-era freight routes, too, especially with B&O, N&W, ATSF, SP, UP, WP, PRR, NP, GN, C&O, and/or NKP. There are a lot of potential steam locos that could be made.

 

I would put in $100 US for crowdfunding US FREIGHT routes (also those like IC&E where it has some or half passenger etc) through a DTG portal. What do you think? And anyone that wants to buy it has to put in a similar amount to get the route. If any funds are surplus after route has been produced then it shall go towards the next route.
And we could have a list of 10 or 20 routes to choose from as your preference for what the money goes to.
Also could have a choice that if the preference you chose is not the top 3 then you can choose whether to keep that money in your preference or let it be used for the route that will be made first.

 

It doesn't work that way. All it does is create more division among players and I don't think such system would work out

 

Crowdfunding a big no from me too. Got sucked into it with Trainz A New Era to end up with a couple of desktop wallpapers and a product that wasn’t much more advanced than TS12, but in its first iteration nearly burned out the hardware. And no amount of crowd funding will solve the stated problem of the big US operators slamming the gate on involvement with entertainment software. When they probably make $30 or $40k for a trainload of product, a train sim company offering $2500 for access to record and photograph locos isn’t going to pull any weight.

 

While everyone is discussing the obvious: sounds and physics, I will deviate a little from the main topic in order to introduce something that many would like to see on US freight routes.
We need a long distance Amtrak trains in TSW. As separate DLC or part of the route - it doesn't matter, the main thing is that it is need to be layered for all possible routes(existing and future). It will bring more interest in freight routes. It will bring the variety that freight routes lack. One DLC may change the way players think about freight routes.

 

Steam hasn’t been dropped…… but hopefully is freight does

 

British freight hasn't even started yet, nevermind being dropped.

 

The one annoying thing is Matt and DTG keep denying it cause "It isnt worth it" due to the one service each way per day.

The thing is, the value isn't replayabilty on 1 route. Its how much more it can fill out route either as playable services on existing and future routes or as AI.

-Sand Patch Grade? Capitol Limited
-Boston Providence? Lake Shore Limited (AI)
-Cane Creek? California Zephyr (AI)
-Horseshoe Curve? Pennsylvanian (Amfleets from another route)
-Cajon Pass? Southwest Chief
-Antelope Valley? Coast Starlight, Southwest Chief, Sunset Limited (AI)
-Peninsula Corridor? Coast Starlight (AI)

 

I think the German routes have the best mix lots of the lines have both passenger and freight services , The UK seems to be more passenger but DTG skimps on UK freight too but lately there has been more UK freight like the cargo paks skyhook been doing for the UK routes .[ If your listenig skyhook] how about doing this for existing US routes add freight car paks skins and scenario timetable layers that would add some replay value to existing freight routes even new freight locos ,Example SD40T 2 looks different onthe outside but uses the same engine as SD40 2 same with GE make a C 40 8 b40 8w same engine as the C40 8W in sand patch route there are lots of other examples

 

True. I’d see it similar to the German Br 101. Sure, the 101 on HRR is great but the real value comes from her layering onto almost all German routes since.

I know the situation is different since HRR alone did have a hefty timetable for the 101 whereas the Amtrack stock doesn’t really have that luxury but I think it could still work. Alternatively, is there a reasonable route DTG could tackle that could give us a more intense Amtrack timetable with the relevant long distance stock?

 

Yes steam has been dropped unless third parties come in. Which they are unlikely to do unless DTG sort out the poor core physics and systems implementation. Which DTG won’t do…

 

seems to me US freight IS important to more people than DTG thinks, I hope Matt is still watching this thread and will chime in again , there has been both Harsh and constructive criticism, and some good suggestions ideas etc ,also seems to be fair amount of people on here that still want more US freight content even if everything cant be perfect there is lots of thing they could do with what licences in game assets they already have ,,but need to try and improve thing as going fwd

 

hopefully Matt will be successful and bring us a remastered clinchfield route he said he working on something in his spare time to see if it can be done , no guarantees he said ..Matt seems to be on US freight side the most at DTG

 

Also because of having to model multiple types of passenger coaches. If it's just a p42 and 1 type of coach, then it makes it easier but when it's multiple, it makes it much harder. Matt also mentioned that he didn't like the idea of players having to spend a lot of additional money to get 2 more services. They still want to bring it but exploring other options.

Personally, it would be better to bring the p42 with a route where it runs regularly and do like a gameplay pack for the coaches, idk

 

I agree give us a stanard modern amtrak set dlc with layerd in timetable scenario for the freight routes that see regular amtrak runs usually 1 each way on cajon sand patch HSC

 

Also be nice to see local freight layers scenarios on boston Providence. Add more UP services to Peninsula corridor. Also do routes where there is both decent freight and passenger traffic then can be the best of both worlds thing

 

Definitely a case of be careful what you ask for. And it is a case where DTG listened to and followed the will of their customers.

Hit the nail squarely on the head with this comment, no matter what DTG decides to do, people will complain. And the fact that there has been such an uproar over sound, the community has gotten exactly what they have asked for …” if you can’t get the sounds 100% accurate, don’t do it”. The sad part of this situation, I would guess 85% of the people could not tell if the sounds were accurate or not.

I have reverted back to TSC for freight on dlc like Norfolk Southern N line, Montana Highline, Feather River Canyon and others since they all have well though out scenarios of either shunting or servicing of lineside industries. Even though the graphics in TSC are subpar compared to TSW, the sounds are not accurate and physics are an approximation, I felt immersed into the scenarios since it was much more than an A to B run.

While timetables in TSW are great for passenger and commuter services, they do not lend themselves to running local freights where lineside industries are served. These runs vary with every turn. Shunting to build consist need variety as well, or work best in a journey type environment where once the consist is formed, then the next run is taking the consist and servicing the industries along the line. Unfortunately, I am afraid many would find such activity as tedious though it is more realistic for the beginning and end of a freight runs and indicative of what most short lines do. My point is, for me at least, a well though out freight journey, consist build, servicing of lineside industries, and the such are way more immersive than ensuring the sound of the compressor kicking in is 100% accurate.

 

DTG don’t need crowdfunding as they already have a business model. They build the routes and then sell them. That works for the multiple sales platforms the products are sold through and crowdfunding would not work that way so isn’t even an option.

 

Im a huge freight fan id definitely love to see more UK freight stuff

 

I

I Played sand patch yesterday played the 5 red star 2 hr loaded coal train scenario with the AC44,it was imersive for me , had to stop twice to let 2 other trains by, and restart my train on the grade then had to work the brakes going down to Cumberland the sound was fine for what it is

 

I agree, TSW does have some good freight… I am a big fan of Clinchfield and have just finished the journey mode on that route once again. There are some good runs on Horseshoe curve servicing the mine, taking empties, loading the consist and taking the load out. I am hoping for more such immersive runs in the future of TSW as well.

 

This is why I can't understand DTG's position. As stated, they could take what they have repaint and reskin, who wouldn't want something like the Shasta route (SP era), Moffat Tunnel (D&RGW era) or as I've previously mentioned something different in the mid-West around Sedalia or Jefferson City. New York Central up into the Adirondacks towards Malone Jn. If "live" railroads are impossible to research then get the old maps out and look at doing something abandoned. How about a logging railroad in the Pacific Northwest or the old Malahat Dayliner route on Vancouver Island. There is so much potential and we want to see a "can do" attitude.

At the risk of repeating myself, there don't seem any barriers when it comes to TSC producing new US freight content.

 

I try to play the scenarios on the routes i know some are bugged and cant be completed but it dont stop me from playing the ones that do work a few there are work arounds one i played on sherman hill with a heritage SD70ace had to start on the down hill grade gut couldnt move dynamic brake lever rememered the trick someone mentioned in a forum to get it working just flick the relay in cabinet behind engneers seat a time or 2 i did and dynamic brakes started working and completed the scenario

 

There isn't really they can repaint for those era's though. Yeah the SP had SD40's, but those would require work that DTG probably wouldn't be able to do (As seen by the lack of the ISO Cab Variant of the SD70ACe) DRGW has nothing available in game right now.

 

im hoping Matt can make that remastered clinchfield route he dabbling with to see if can be done .he said no guarantees but that would be a good test for older US freight etc hopefully it would do well enough that more classic routes would be done

 

[QUOTE="OldVern, post: 801972, member: 2244

At the risk of repeating myself, there don't seem any barriers when it comes to TSC producing new US freight content.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't going to post on this thread again, because I'm sure US freight in TSW is gone for good, but thinking about " barriers " I'm reminded of a post I made a while back.

I wonder if the coincidental demise of both steam traction and US freight are also somehow linked to Focus Entertainment's takeover.

Maybe DTG have been " advised " to drop the least profitable ( or non- profitable ) segments of the market.

Just a thought.

 

I wasn't going to post on this thread again, because I'm sure US freight in TSW is gone for good, but thinking about " barriers " I'm reminded of a post I made a while back.

I wonder if the coincidental demise of both steam traction and US freight are also somehow linked to Focus Entertainment's takeover.

Maybe DTG have been " advised " to drop the least profitable ( or non- profitable ) segments of the market.

Just a thought.[/QUOTE]
Definitely a thought now that you mentioned it ..

 

Definitely a thought now that you mentioned it ..[/QUOTE]
Maybe Focus Entertainment take over of DTG isnt a good thing

 

I feel the same about Clinchfield, it's easily my go to US DLC. The older stock is just more interesting and challenging to drive.

If Clinchfield ever got remaster treatment (which I know is extremely unlikely), that gave it some scenery improvements to TSW4 standards, added the alternate Black/Grey liveries for the F7 and SD40, and TOD4. It might renew some interest in it.

I had once hoped we'd get some additional rolling stock DLC for it as well in the form of a GP7:

 

If what Crosstie just posted has any truth, I hope that turns and bites F.E in their Rear End Device .....Caboose...

 

Well to show support for US Freight broke off from exploring Zusi 3 to start the next Journey run on Clinchfield. Might then make this a TSW "US Freight Week" get a run or two on all those types of route in my collection.

I think the main problem Clinchfield suffered from is that the nature of the route does not play nicely with TSW's lighting issues. Needs a TOD4 upgrade for sure. Not helped by many of the runs being at night either.

But those veteran F7's and SD40's would go great on another similar route in the same sort of era.

As regards Focus Entertainment, well it's not hard to get the vibe that something is going on behind the scenes with a restructuring of what they see as the business priorities. Well if that priority is emphasis on short one handled EMU commuter routes, let's just say there is far less chance of my buying that, than an interesting and well done NA (US, Canada or even Mexico) freight or mixed passenger/freight route.

 

Taking Cajon Pass/Southwest Chief as an example: In the case of AI services, how is it worth it for DTG to invest time and effort into creating a train and plugging it into the timetable for Just a single AI appearance each way in a 24 hour period?

In the case of playable services, same, but with that much more development time needed for the same single service each way. Plus, the only station between San Berdardino and Barstow endpoints is in Victorville, so there's only a one-stop difference between driving passenger and freight on that line. Again, how is this worth it to DTG?

This is kind of a general problem with Amtrak passenger services out west--many stations are 100-150 miles or more apart (Salt Lake City, UT to Elko, NV is 263 miles/3.5 hours apart), big enough to plug 2-3 DTG route sections into, and for what? A single end-to-end run once a day. Freight at least gives you numbers and variety to work with.

I've ridden both the Southwest Chief and California Zephyr end-to-end multiple times and would absolutely love to be able to drive both in-game, but I can understand why that will never happen. (Plus, we'd really need a reliable save game.)

 

I said I would leave this topic alone, but I can't help myself.

There are lots of possibilities. I've mentioned the Chicago- Milwaukee route many times, but I was reminded of it once again yesterday while stopped at a grade crossing in a Chicago suburb. First a Metra commuter train sauntered by and then, before we could cross the tracks, a medium slow CN freight began plodding by. While it was meandering through the crossing a really fast Amtrak whizzed by at breakneck speed on the adjacent track. Wonderful adult trainspotting!!

About 90 miles with lots of mixed traffic and plans for even more Amtrak runs through to the Twin Cities.

Sadly will never happen unless I build my own train simulator which, at my age, might be a bridge too far ( pardon the pun ).

( Please don't mention the Metra license..... We know )

 

I think the idea would be an Amt rak consist which could be used out of the box on numerous US routes. Others know better than I which coaches work on which routes, but I'm pretty sure a P42 would work as traction on all of them, aside from of course Clinchfield

 

Clinchfield can be lovely at certain times of the day:



However thinking random thoughts during this journey, there are several core facors which would probably add to the appeal of US freight.

1. More than one save slot. It generally takes around 90 minutes to drive across Clinchfield or most of the other freight routes. However you might want to go off and do something else on another route, which also requires a save, rather than being forced to finish up the current run first.

2. That ridiculous "as the crow flies" mileage indicator. High time this was coded to reflect the actual track mileage remaining so that 12 miles, doesn't turn into 18.

On a more general note and sorry to tag, but DTG Matt does this mean we are unlikely to see US freight from the likes of SHG in future, if they come forward with a route proposal?

Another factor of slight frustration, is that make the route editor a bit easier to work with and get down some coherent instructions and guidelines and I'm sure there are quite a few users who would come forward and try their had at something US Freight orientated. But the current state of it, while easier than the Zusi 3 editor which seems to require a degree in advanced geometry and had me nearly throwing the laptop in the water butt earlier, is not going to encourage much participation in that sort of thing.

 

I'm often near the Milwaukee North line myself, either in the city or nearby suburbs like Niles, and there is a nice variety of activity.

Seems like modularity is an issue with the game in general. I don't know what factors are involved in creating the same stock for multiple routes vs multiple versions of it, but it seems like more ability to plug & play would benefit everyone.

To address OldVern immediately above, I agree about the save game--more slots in addition to more reliability are sorely needed. I wonder if the problem there is related to the problem of multiple versions of stock. Maybe the entire game software needs to be reevaluated and rewritten using the lessons learned from the past years of expansion. Good luck getting the money people to approve that, though.

And add the editor and creative software to that also. Making it as easy as possible for third parties to join up seems like a win-win for everyone.

 

Exactly what we are talking about. Amtrak trains can be layered on many existing and, who knows how many, future routes. One DLC bring something new to many.
But I agree, there is need to be some home route for P42 with more then 1 service per day. From Chicago as ideal.

 

I was playing Sand Patch yesterday. I also had the as the crow flies mileage. Passed the go via at sand patch and said 14 miles to Viaduct jct went miles and still said 14 miles

 

At one point on SPG, I'm sure I saw the remaining mileage go back up!

 

If it was the case of focus changing, then there wouldn't be games that are really good like plague tale. Focus didn't tell dtg to make emu handled short routes

 

Maybe, but there has definitely been a sea change in the last few months, with DTG generally distancing themselves more from the community and the decisions being taken on future content. You call it what you like, but I'm sticking to my guns it's more than just coincidence following the takeover. The stated public nature of their relationship may not be entirely the true picture. Focus are going to expect a return off their investment and I'm sure they've scrutinised the books to see what are the crowd pleasers amongst the content and the less successful or loss leading items. Even though the latter are exactly that. By DTG catering for steam, or US freight, or BR Classic, it has kept many of us on board rather than drift off to other products and by engendering goodwill we even end up buying the one handle commuter stuff to round out the collection.

 

Amen to all of that. Despite what our self- appointed spokesperson says, I'm sure Focus is focused on the bottom line and if US freight doesn't sell well, short line or full route, then we're SOL, as they say.

I'm not the only one who thinks that US freight doesn't do well in the marketplace because it's not built particularly well ( SPG aside ). Why DTG couldn't maintain the quality of build of that initial, founding route is the $64,000 question.

 

It does. There's (at least) one curve that moves you away from the stopping point for a bit before turning you towards it again.

 

Yes, this issue has been raised from the beginning of TSW. I remember a discussion about 3 or 4 years ago and DTG's response was, if I recall, that changing it would adversely affect performance.

Does TSC have the same " as the crow flies " problem?

 

Ironically, the absence of the Amtrak P42 (or other diesel) mirrors the larger issues in the game:

If Sandpatch had had its logical endpoint at Connellsville, the P42 might have been in the game from the very beginning.

If DTG had built with modularity in mind from the beginning, it might have been more economically viable to have an Amtrak Diesel loco DLC years ago- instead of it having to be tied to a particular route, something that's only recently been rectified.

I'm sure they'll say it had nothing to do with either of these things though...