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Don't Make An Editor For Console!!!

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nielsmallant100, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I am not saying this because I am a PC player and it isn't interesting for me, but I am saying this because it is literally impossible. Consoles will melt or crash, whatever comes first. Also console players buy a console cause they want to play, not to create. I have spoken to mane TSW console players, none of them are interested in the editor. You're treating everyone like second class citizens by trying to give everyone the editor, and making it take 2 years longer. Also you will never get the license to export the editor to other platforms other than the epic games store. I wish you the best of luck, but don't try to do the impossible.
     
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  2. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    You did say this because you are a pc player, you also didn’t ask this console player what he thinks.

    roughly translated what you are saying is ‘pc players are not getting the editor because of console players’

    I’m not saying this as a console player, but pc players would not have TSW if console TSW sales weren’t keeping it going
     
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  3. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    The console usage numbers are nearly 5× the amount of pc players. So DTG would be betraying there largest fan base considering Matt said its important for console users are able to use the editor. Note : I'm not saying this because I'm a console player. Instead because it's TRUE!!!!
     
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  4. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    Surely making it pc specific would be like treating console users like second class citizens. OP's post is just so absurdly rediculous, it's almost funny.
     
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  5. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that you can download Unreal Engine and you can make whatever worlds you want with it........... including stuff involving trains... and that you can do that right now, for PC...?

    Also - I am not sure if you have seen it, but there is an Editor in Train Simulator (TS1) on PC that is available to you right now.....

    Finally - there are plenty of software titles..... right now.... on XBox and PS4 that already include editors for sharing content, including paint schemes (liveries), puzzles/levels/challenges (scenarios) and maps/tracks (routes)... etc. So it is not impossible. In fact - it has already been stated that the issues are not insurmountable.
     
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  6. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    You guys dont seem to understand the half of it. The editors available for consoles are really simple ones, this editor is incredibally detailed. I know the console playerbase is much bigger than PC, but you can't make a machine do what it was never designed to do. Consoles are for laid back gaming, PCs are for gaming, creation and many more things. And for TinTin, that's maybe partially right, but it's not only about what they want, but about what is possible. You guys got air of their plans, but don't be fooled into thinking it's possible. Also, they can NEVER license it from Epic Games, this is why the editor for Bus Simulator 18 is there only
     
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  7. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    also in what universe did I say that TSW shouldn't be on console. It should be on console but as a seperate line. Because even CSX HH is already too heavy for console. So the routes we are getting are using the limits set by Console. These are facts, whatever DTG says.
     
  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Surely you would be treating console players as second class citizens if you denied them the editor?! Or I am inhabiting another universe!

    Edit: I see someone else has already made that point
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  9. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I don't see your point. Console users have chosen themselves to buy a device which is serverely limiting in a lot of regards. How is not giving them something, because it's pretty impossible treating them as any less?!
     
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  10. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Wwwooohhh, we went from talking like adults to talking like 3 year olds. nielsmallant100 its unacceptable your going round here saying what is equivalent to 'console players your ruining are fun'. If you have an issue with TSW being on console then play TS1 which has an editor. Not giving them something Is treating them as less because there left out of something that a lot of them want. Just because your on a PC (I assume) doesn't me you get to walk around like you own the place, your acting like a 3 year old (as previously mentioned) so let's talk like adults and have a reasonable discussion or you can go and talk to your la de da folk. I dont plan to sit here an agure but if that's what it takes for you to understand you can't abandon a whole fan base then I will. Note : I'm not saying this because I'm on a console, instead because it's true!!!!

    Edit : Do you realise how much effort it would be to put the console on a whole separate line?????
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  11. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I think I am very much talking like an adult. I don't know what you mean, I never said console is ruining the fun, I am just pointing out that we are getting short routes and such, because otherwise they wouldn't be console compatible, you can't deny that. I am not going around like I am owning the place. I just hope people will realize, that getting an editor on console is not a reasonable thing to ask for, nor will it happen in a way that the PC will get it (hopefully ever).
     
  12. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Active Member

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    How in the world are you making a judgement call on the editor... when no-one has any access to said editor or what the final version looks like. For all you know... the console editor may just be a simple livery/scenario editor. In what world does taking away user customization for console players and an attempt to be inclusive a bad thing...

    "I am not saying this because I am a PC player and it isn't interesting for me"
    Well then don't say it...

    " because it is literally impossible."
    Says who?

    "Consoles will melt or crash, whatever comes first."
    Waffle (I have stronger words for this, but under the terms and conditions of forum rules....)

    " Also console players buy a console cause they want to play, not to create."
    And you interviewed all console players to reach this conclusion?

    "making it take 2 years longer."
    You don't work at DTG or know their development schedule/technical challenges
     
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  13. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    Also, it wouldn't be that much work to run a separate line, they do it for other games already, just release DLC for PC and console, but make PC exclusives, not because console doesnt deserve that DLC, which is what everyone here thinks I am saying for some magical reason, but because console literally can't run it.
     
  14. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    Well actually editors in consoles would Be Better Than Having It On PC Because There is A Lot Of Different Ways Of Doing A Livery Creator for an example (Just Copy Forza)
     
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  15. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    DTG has done nothing to prove the contrary, and we have plenty of UE4 examples to prove my point.
     
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  16. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    To have a separate line you would need double the staff, considering there unable to get a permanent community manager I dont see how your expecting them to get another 20 or so. You dont get it............ your inconsiderate...........end of!
     
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  17. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    But I forgot it is futile to reason with DTG fanboys, so I'll just go to a place where I am not called "not being an adult" for saying something they dont like
     
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  18. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure that the following will help with this discussion... but I think it is worth asking the following questions... about a future Editor for the cross-platform TSW....

    0. How many people want to use any content (at all) created by other players....?
    1. How many people want to design liveries and exchange/share them for free with their mates....?
    2. How many people want to design scenarios and exchange/share them for free with their mates....?
    3. How many people want to design high fidelity route builds based on existing assets and exchange/share them for free with their mates....?
    4. How many people want to research and then scratch build very high quality electronic assets/rolling stock, suitable for use in TSW... and exchange/share them for free with their mates....?
    5. How many people want to write programs and scripts for assets in routes, and exchange/share them for free with their mates....??
    6. How many people want to design liveries, scenarios, routes, custom assets and script them, and exchange/share them for free with their mates....?
    7. How many people want to sell content to other players, but only do this on their own websites or via Steam marketplace, but don't want to have to bother with Playstation Store or Microsoft Store...?

    As you go down the list, the pool of people (or organisations....) gets smaller and smaller. When you reach the bottom of the list, the number of people (or perhaps... stakeholders....) is a very tiny fraction of the whole customer-base - the vast majority of which is on Playstation and XBox.


    That said....I am only now just exploring the content in TS1, exclusively on PC. There are 24,000 Workshop items on Steam. About 600 of the 24,000 (or 2%) of these are properly tagged as "routes". The vast majority of these "routes" are minor conversions. There might be as many as 50 substantially novel routes in there (or 0.2%).

    So - if you were to introduce an Editor.... would you target the feature functions at 99.8% of the population... or would you develop it for 0.2% of the population....? Which would you do... if you were running a business....?

    And if you would choose 0.2%.... then why not just pick up Unreal Engine 5, and make your own Train Simulator plus Editor for this extremely small user base, and let us all know when you run out of cash...?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  19. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fanboy considering one of my threads was titled 'Business practises at DTG' I'm not sure how you get that assumption.
     
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  20. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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  21. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    you are talking on a completely different level. CONSOLE IS NICE. But for gaming, not for creation. The only creation things we have for console are extremely dumbed down. I wish console players could get the editor, I really do. But it won't be possible. And to the ones saying I don't know, console specs are public, we all know it could never run it. The same reason we have 30km routes.
     
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  22. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    niel you do realise the next gen consoles have specs higher than some PC's maybe reconsider that thought. Also you clearly dont wish the editor Is on console judging you previous messages.
     
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  23. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    aren't you the same guy that was asking for adult like arguments? Pretty ironic
     
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  24. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    If you could read you would see it says 'lol' not sure if you know what that stands for though.
     
  25. indominus123456789

    indominus123456789 Member

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    If any staff members are looking at this thread, I believe things are beginning to get out of hand here. As far as I can see, this thread is becoming repetitive and a breeding ground for undiplomatic conflict. It may be time to take some action here. (This status may change over time, so this statement may no longer apply to future comments on this thread)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  26. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Know what else is ironic the fact that you said you ate acting like an adult, read your older posts and tell me your acting like an adult.
     
  27. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I literally said the exact opposite, you sum up this forum, you say A and you say I said B. I want the editor on consoles, if it was possible. And I cant talk about next gen consoles since they aren't released yet. So DTG also couldn't make an editor based on it
     
  28. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I am trying to keep it civil. But the tone set by others is extremely toxic. Its a shame, I was just planning to have a civil discussion
     
  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I have spent about 1000 hours driving in GT Sport on PS4. I have also spent about 300 hours designing liveries in GT Sport, and publishing them for others to use. There are very many people in GT Sport that do not even race, or drive the cars - ever. They just use the art/photography utilities to create and share decals, car livery designs and wonderful works of art.

    It all depends on what you mean by "Editor".

    If you mean an art utility, and/or scenario creation/verification utility, then that is something that is easily possible within a console ecosystem... and would be extremely popular and well-used (I guess).

    A game engine SDK (like a version of UE4) is something completely different. And if you want to build routes for TSW then you just need ten person-years for each 50km route to do it. And if you can deploy that kind of resource over a short time-frame, then you probably have about x30 staff working on each project full-time.

    Most people (I suspect) just want "an Editor", not the UE SDK, as tailored for construction in TSW. But the people that want the pure UE SDK can actually just go to Epic's website and download it, if they really want to. It's free.
     
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  30. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    good point. You're right, but what I have heard from UE4 devs that I know is that scenario's could only be made if you have nearly the complete editor. Altho I think a scenario or livery editor would be very good for console! But the full SDK on console is what I mean that isn't possible. Also we need to wait until DTG release the modified SDK before we can make anything specific for TSW
     
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  31. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well - it should all end happily then - because the vast majority of people that play TSW will not want the full UE SDK as an Editor, or, at least, won't make any reasonably serious attempt at using it to design 50km+ routes.

    I hope that DTG solve "making an editor for creating scenarios" within the TSW ecosystem (so.... in-game, plus for sharing with others across Steam, Playstation and XBox). This is certainly possible - but it will take some work with the UI and internet-connectivity. Maybe after they have fixed Mastery....?

    Those that do want to play around with the UE SDK can do - it's a fantastic resource that has been made available by Epic. For free.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No we aren't! Consoles have not effect on the length of routes, that has been stated ad-infinitum!

    Could we have a big note at the top of the forum with this in big red letters, alongside the one that says we are still working on the editor!
     
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  33. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    same for me but on Forza Horizon 4
    Imagine a Livery Creator on console You Could Make The Southern 377 'thank you NHS' Livery
     
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  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This is tame, you should see the threads about the editor!
     
  35. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I was gonna say
     
  36. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    explain to me then why CSX HH isn't on console
     
  37. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    Because It was created before consoles for bigger storage space and less laggy on tsw
     
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  38. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Purely as an aside, could you drop me a link (either here, or privately in DM if you like)..... to any of the stuff that you have created for TS1, and published on Steam Workshop...? I'd love to take a look.
     
  39. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    What would that have to do with this may I ask?
     
  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am just repeating what has been said by DTG staff members many times as this same comment keeps cropping up. I am saying this as a PC player so have no dog in the console versus PC war which seems to be being played out!
     
  41. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I am not for any war. Console and PC are just different beasts, its all I am tryna say
     
  42. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    If this question was meant for me, then my answer is that I am intrigued to see just how much content you have personally produced for TS1, using the already existing Editor tools on PC.

    You seem to be very keen to get your hands on an Editor for TSW, so I wondered what you had managed to accomplish with TS1, and whether you had published any of your works and shared them with the community.
     
  43. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I do a lot of content creation, just not for TS1. I make repaints for TSW and I do a lot of 3D designs.
     
  44. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I also do some sound modding for TSW. But nothing major
     
  45. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Ah. Okay. So you have not used the TS1 editor. Okay. Why not give it a go, and see what you think?
     
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  46. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    More lies
     
  47. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Niels - there is no reason to doubt that he tinkers with TSW (on PC) - many people do.
     
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  48. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I have used it, just not published anything
     
  49. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    the above. Again and again new users come into the forums and don’t understand what the theorganist just said there. That’s why people get flak
     
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  50. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    I have even released mods, so I am not sure why these trolls are saying I am lying. Just not sure I wanna give the link since these trolls will probably report it because they are trolls
     
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