It was more related to the fact that TSC is a Steam-only game (not Epic, Origin, GOG or MSStore), and does not work without running the client. Steam will log app start and exit times locally in its userdata folder, not sure if playtime isn't updated on server side as soon as Steam connects to its servers again when you're online. Haven't tested that (stats and scores are not really important to me ) If you want to compare the playerbase, it's probably fair to take TSW Steam players number and multiply that by four to account for Epic, MS, and Sony players too. Of course TSW has a much larger playerbase. A poll on the TSW forums has shown that it does largely consist of loyal customers, buying into the franchise for a long time. For new players, TSC is probably not a choice. They'll see that a newer game is available, then seeing the unenhanced lighting default TSC screenshots, and go for TSW. If some would check the large non-competition screenshot thread in here, which hosts some of the best images from TSC, some might think differently.
And I never said or suggested that TSW would match TSC. If you read my post again you will see that I was saying TSW has potential to be another worthy sim in our arsenal but not ever a replacement.
Of course. TSC gives you Boston - Springfield, not ending at Worcester. It gives you Euston - Birmingham, not Milton Keynes. Etc. Talk about Havre - Whitefish (merged Hiline and Marias Pass). Or Wenatchee - Everett. The piece of art named Sacramento Northern: Suisun Bay. And so on. I love my TSC! And honestly the lack of DTG routes for two years now hasn't changed anything. Or have you played everything available yet? I haven't. Of course for people whose excitement level is quickly draining, always needing "new" stuff, it will look differently. As with music, I can enjoy everything from all eras. And there's the editor and Workshop. If your route doesn't exist, why not make it yourself? Of course if you're doing that for making money or getting credit, you'll be frustrated, that should not be your goal. Consider learning UE in that case - but be sure you will need a normal job before you can make a living from producing train sim content alone, in these days of people wanting everything for low costs. (And then complaining about quality) DTG are responsible for feeding 200 employees' families, and of course they will invest in where the money is to be made. It may not be TSC anymore, but they can live with selling the back catalogue of 800 DLC without investing further manhours imho.
I personally don't get the appeal of the TSW Timetables. Feels like a lot of repetition. I like the large variety of scenarios available in TSC and the Quick Drive capability. Some of the extended routes in TSC give so many opportunities.
I would need to live till about 150 to 180 yrs old to play all my content, and that's only if I retire now (in my 50's) OK so I've proven I'm immortal thus far but I can't see it continuing for another 100 + yrs if I'm honest. My TSC content will outlive me, and that quite frankly is all I care about.
We should appreciate that we've come so far. RailSimulator was ill-fated in the beginning, with MS and Kuju parting ways during initial MSTS2 development, MS then trying to make MSTS2 on their own, lost interest (and with Kuju leaving, the KnowHow was gone), abandoned, Kuju continuing thanks to the support of Fund4Games, making the publishing deal with EA, just for having to pay a large amount of money to buy themselves out again of an apparently oppressive contract. Then Paul Jackson's RSDL took over the game development, seeing the potential in it, and made it RailWorks/TS, the rest is history. Our TSC could have ended up with the initial routes only like MSTS which was only carried by 3rd parties... and now we have the (content-wise) biggest game in history probably. (Just want to add that maps for the original 1993 Doom / 1994 Doom II are still being made and the community is active as ever, and very creative doing things you wouldn't expect that old 2.5D engine to achieve. Especially the contests like making the most interesting map inside a 64x64m square are awesome. I think the most vital thing they implemented was Carmack's (or was it Romero?) idea of the "lifts" and teleporters, creating endless possibilities of mazes and optical illusions. Doom's essence was not so much about shooting (though nothing's as satisfying as firing the double barrel shotgun), but staying in motion which is why it is still popular. People have even created a "computer" in Doom, creating logical NAND gatters from monsters and their fired projectiles, using the monster infights (yes some attack other monsters after being hit by one of their projectiles), using it like Redstone in Minecraft.) Edit: forgot the most important thing: Carmack released the Linux source code for Doom (without the proprietary licensed sound code) a few years after release, which spawned a fair amount of source ports - some preserving, some enhancing the engine with new linedef action types and limit removal, or running the pseudo-3D (the map itself is purely 2D with sector floor/ceiling height definitions only, no room can be on top of another, yet creating the illusion of 3D) world under a real 3D OpenGL engine. Maybe some day in the future DTG will release the TSC source code... We're sick of remixing this LOVE*er ourselves, here's the bits go do it yourself (quoting Aberdeen's The Shamen after releasing a remix CD containing all samples and isolated loops from their 90's hit Move Any Mountain. We've milked everything out of it now, here you go!
On the contrary though, TSW does have content we wont see in TSC ever. -Modern MBTA -Modern Metrolink -F125, Rotem Cars, and the HSP-46 and MBTA stock It does fit some peoples expectations, but not everything. And how TSW is designed wont fit all railroad applications.
Sure. But I'm more a fan of classic traction fortunately, which is TSC's strength. Stuff like the New Haven E-33 (love the cold start procedure), the E60 or AEM-7. Masterpieces by Reppo. On par with or even better than TSW models. Btw the new Acela is one ugly thing of a train (add the obligatory "imho")
Kind of bolsters my point regarding TSC and TSW (and any other train sims you may like) they are an arsenal of tools to help us enjoy and fulfil our hobby, if any one tool doesn't fit your requirements don't have it in your toolbox, I've yet to meet a plumber that has a trolley jack in his daily tool set, yet somehow I doubt they'd go on plumbnet talking LOVE about people who do use them.
And what’s the chances of ever seeing Taurus Mountains in TSW? To my delight came up on my randomiser yesterday evening so now starting the slog up the hill. Don’t misunderstand, I have preordered the Deluxe version of TSW5 and will probably be Day One’ing most of the announced forthcoming routes. But having briefly mulled over whether TSC should make way, decided despite the absolute appeal of the new stuff I can’t lose Taurus, all the RhB routes or the challenge of taking a Big Boy over a western US long haul run. So side by side for a good number of years yet, I feel.
Well, a scenario in TSC is always the same, it is the amount of scenarios that makes for variety. If you only play one scenario in TSC it will be the same every time, while the timetable in TSW can be different for you every time depending on how you drive.
That’s where quick drives with randomized signalling comes in. Not even in TSW can you do that. Actually if they implemented that, i would be purchasing it.
I actually never tried quick drive to be honest. You say randomized signaling which sounds interesting. How about ai traffic, if I choose quick drive will it always have ai traffic ? Also, how about stops, e.g stopping at stations ? Sorry for the stupid questions, I just never tried it and couldn't find a good video on it..probably since this should be basic knowledge for any TS user.
Not stupid questions at all! As Spikee1975 says, there can be more to qd than meets the eye. But as with any scenario, it’s only as good as it’s author. Unfortunately i think i am the only one utilzing it to it’s full potential. So ot’s only my quick drives that have randomized signals. Do you drive any German/Austrian routes?
QD would be ideal if it had a few more options such as defining station calls and making it a career run for XP.
Who needs XP that is adding infinitely (maybe even turning negative at some point )? The game has no use for it. Do you have a HUD in real life telling you which stop's next? Just do it.
QD scenarios are the highlight of TSC for me. I always use QD scenarios to drive real-life schedules, which makes it a never-ending source of possibilities. However, a downside is that not all routes offer AI traffic in QD, and creating AI traffic can be a bit tedious.
Yes I do, I used to drive american routes to, but lately I have only driven routes on the european continent, so uninstalled all my american stuff...so yes, anything european. I do agree with OldVern in one thing though, I would like to be able calling at stations. XP isn't important for me personally though, I have routes with standard scenarios that I enjoy, though I also enjoy carreer scenarios. BeenTrain That is a great way to do it to, how do you get the real life schedules, current is easy enough to find but historic I can imagine being more difficult to find ?
timetable does not mean, you have green lights everywhere. I fired up TSW yesterday for the first time in a year and drove freight from Dresden to Freiberg. At the end of the three track section I was held at a red signal for 5 minutes, until a passanger service passed by and followed it afterwards with adverse signals all the way. That was normal timetable mode.
Try this for starters. Be aware that it does require one piece of payware apart from the route itself. But i have made a a good number of these, and if you have RSSLO routes you wont feel like it’s too much of an investment. Read the manual! ;-) https://rail-sim.de/forum/filebase/entry/6704-real-drive-advanced-riesa-dresden/
Yes but if you are a reasonably good driver, you will get the same result if you start that time. Because it’s a timetable. But in real life there is delays etc etc…. I must admit, and i know that sounds arrogant, my solution this is more elegant and gives unending variation.
Sorry for going off topic here, but one thing I don´t get about your real drives: why don´t you just include all the rolling stock, that actually runs on the line in real life? If people don´t own all the payware, it just wont show up for them in your QD. But advanced users will get a realistic experience without hurting anyone.
Taurus Mountains was done by turkish developer AMD, who's developing for ATS now afaik. The loco is superb by all means. And yes, all my sims, Run8, TSC, TSW, SimRail, RailRoader and Zusi3 are peacefully coexisting, adding up together to form a hobby, with each one having its pros and cons.
Good question. I guess it’s a philosophy thing. There are two reasons: 1; i want to make it simple for the non advanced user. 2; i have no clue what payware people actually have, i cannot peak into thousands of users computers. So advanced users can easily modify the route gui of any qd-ai consist they feel is correct for the route themselves , and that particular consist might show up. That’s the beauty of it. Without even modifying the scenario, you can change the pool of rolling stock that will appear on the route. Now if that is not an elegant solution, that should please anyone, i don’t know what to do…
You just need a clean install of Railworks so you don't get crashes while building a custom consist. I have so much 3rd party it wants to gag.
I've never used the in-game consist editor. Editing existing preload consists to make them valid on additional routes by modifying the .bin files or scratch building consists using the blueprint editor has worked for me, but I don't often see these methods mentioned.
For me, in TSC, I set the QD scenario date to something way in the future so you get a clean start for setting up the AI. So for instance, the five UK WCML routes, I set all the route date to 2079 for AI in the 1980's, and 2089 for modern day. That way, I am in control of what will randomly appear when in QD. (I set the AI up using RWE2, which you can also used to schedule stops in QD) Then if I feel like driving a timetabled class 87 from Euston to Scotland in the 1980's, I can, by changing the route date to 2079. Alternatively, if I feel like driving a modern day Pendilino, I can by simply changing the route date to 2089!
You would have to do quite a bit of research to see what trains run on the route Passenger trains would be easy but freight can be so varied in this era of competition. One option would be just to use the stock that comes with the route as AI - but that would be boring.
That´s what Kim is basicly doing now... Yes, I was thinking about Passenger trains... for freight you can take some common german consists. There are some trains you will commenly see all over Germany: Vectrons, 186 and 187 with long container trains, car transporters or tank wagons, 185 or 152 with mixed freight from DB, 294 with short distance freight trains.
G . Tried to down load PA Steam got it to appear in TSC routes the standard scenarios Career modes show the Bessemer steam engines train consits ..route shows on avail routes in QD but every thing i try as soon as route tries to load it Crashes the game to desk top everytime ....what would cause this and are there any solutions ...
The "quick drive" interface/UI is a lot easier to use than TSW. Less clicking around and creating. You can just hop in, choose a route, choose start/end, choose train, choose consist... and go. There's no "timetable" per se, but I like the more "open ended" style of TSC better than how TSW does it. TSW is a bit more "immersive" in that you have an avatar to "walk around" and it feels less claustrophobic because of that, less "tied" to to the train, and the graphics are better. However, that's balanced by TSC's greater flexibility and options. So..... two different experiences to me, both fun.
As others have said in the past days. If your on PC, just use both. TSW and TSC have some unique routes on both sides. From a German perspective TSW has Niddertalbahn in very high quality and soon Frankfurt-Fulda. TSC has a bunch of stuff, that TSW will mostly likely never have. The Berlin routes, the Harz routes etc.
I really haven't looked into the German routes in TSC yet. Preferably something like Nidder/Maintalbahn would be preferable, a slower branch line. The high speed and big city stuff just doesn't interest me. I think the Rosenheim should be similar between the two platforms?
operator#7940 if you are open to freeware, there is some really cool branchline stuff. - Harznetz 2000 by me includes north germanies most scenic route the Innerstetalbahn. - Rodachtalbahn is a famous German freeware route. A collection of branchlines around "Hof" set in the 1990´s. - Wetteraunetz plays in the same area and era of Niddertalbahn in TSW, but does not have the actual Niddertalbahn, but the other lines in the area on it (Lich, Laubenheim, Nidda, Beilheim) - Pressnitztalbahn: a suberb collection of narrow gauge steam routes in Sachsen on the border to the czech republic. It´s one route at the moment, but the developer has been working on the other two lines for many years and should be ready soon. - Hagen to Siegen V3/V4 has the branch to Iserlohn unlike the original Payware version. On the Payware side there is also alot of stuff, but none of it really has the same kind of feel to it like the mentioned freeware routes. - Rübelandbahn is a very unique German route set during DDR times in the Harz. Only route in Germany running on 25k voltage. - Im Köblitzer Bergland is a German finctional classic and includes a branchline. - "Durchs Moseltal. Koblenz-Trier" includes the branchline to Traben-Trarbach (scenery is not the best though). - Brockenbahn. Narrow gauge steam railway running up the Brocken in the Harz national park. - Wutachtalbahn. A heritage steam railway on the south of Germany. It´s by DTG and on Steam. A bit of suprise to the Germany community at the time. In my view a boring route. But it´s long. Takes 2 hours to run all the way. - There are a couple of branchlines in the south by RSSLO like Salzburg-Mühldorf or Holzkirchen-Rosenheim... but they don´t have nice scenery.
No credits to be found in the Wutachtalbahn manual. Yeah, that one was a (welcome, as I am a Black Forester) surprise. Still the Murgtalbahn is missing.... only ever done completely by BlueSkyInteractive for MSTS, and partially by Albrecht Hoenisch for Loksim3D.
Always a surprise to me to see this one (I think the only route - that i did all of the scenery placement of), (not track or signals - just scenery). Although i think another one or Two routes Pegntiztalbahn or Kiel to Lübeck - I know the latter has some issues with signalling? I think entirely inhouse - hence no credits - but it was a while ago, I was the only route builder on it (aside from those creating the stations and doing the scenarios and of course the track / rolling stock too)
The route was definitely fine for what it was at the time Danny. But in hindsight I wish DTG (and even other third party) would have focused on stuff like Hannover-Würzburg, Hannover-Berlin, Ruhrgebiet, Dortmund, Stuttgart... The German route maps looks very empty compared to the UK and other countries. Pegnitztalbahn is fine. The German community did not do a revamp for it... that tells you all you need to know. There is a revamp for Lübeck-Kiel out there somewhere. But once again, I don´t use any of those three routes. Route choice was a problem on the German side all along and we are left with a awkward set of routes scattered all over Germany after all these years of TSC, unlike the UK, Austria and others.
I think they did, hence me being the only route builder on it, but i can't remember what the other route was though. (probably wasn't german) I have heard this, although i think it was more track and signals more than scenery (as far as i'm aware - including the trees - but i think Lubeck uses the same trees as the Pegnitztalbahn one - the Kiel route - I did Kiel area towards somewhere. I think no "revamp" on pegnitz was because it already used the signals they would replace them with
Yes, the later routes by DTG were decent. Only small updates needed to keep most players happy (replacing with Dijonsenf tracks etc). As far as I know, DijonSenf now works for DTG on TSW. He also helped us with the Harznetz at one point (built some signal boxes). It´s a shame DTG has pulled everyone from TSC. I would be happy with a small team of people taking the assets from the TSW routes and building them for TSC (Kassel-Würzburg, Köln-Aachen etc.). We don´t even need new rolling stock included, we´ve got enough at this point to work with. Has this ever been discussed at DTG Danny? I think all the remaining german TSC community would buy routes like this first day. Is there really no financal case for considering something like this over in Chatham?
Lübeck Kiel signalling is basically non functioning. There were scores of complaints but it was never fixed. Just try the northbound qd. You have to tab through each and every station. This route (along with Köln s bahn) is one of the reasons DTG got such a bad rep with the german TS community. I mean, if there is one thing that should work in a train simulator, it’s the signals. Basically Lübeck Kiel is broken, and incredibly enough still on sale.
Sadly i'm no longer on TS1 and haven't been for a while, as for plans for TS1 i'm in the dark as much as all of you , I have suggested things for TS1 but it is now upto DTG . I mean personally I'd love to see the 710 from TSW into TS1 but that's just me having wishful thinking
I saw you mentioning it's not worth for you to engage in freeware TSC routes sadly. Why do you think it would be for DTG who need to pay their bills with that? And having all those requirements plus editor, why can't the community build these routes? Kassel - Würzburg should be one of the more easier things to do imho. Much easier than a slow route with detailed scenery and each piece of grass manually planted. I'm enjoying the long high speed runs in Zusi, and the buildings and stations are very detailed, it's just the 2D vegetation and missing shadow casting that makes it look a bit bland sometimes (but nothing I worry about, as the immersion comes from the realistic gameplay here.) Also nice how Alwin Meschede presents each new route module with a lot of background information on Youtube.
S13 bahn - I think best to not even go there (I would rather avoid that one), Lubeck yep i know sadly, I mean i wish i knew more about German signalling but sadly i don't (more scripting etc).
You are mixing two different things. This is because other stuff has come up in my life and I´m tired after two years of Harznetz. If someone would pay me for doing it, I would open the editor again today. I´ve done calculations on this. How many people buy a German route? Is it 5000? Then sign me up as a payware producer. Nice part time job! Or is it 500 people? In that case i totally understand why DTG have stopped. We don´t... except if DTG hands over the Blender files. That would make things easier... and yes, you are right. Kassel-Würzburg would an easier job than Harznetz or many other German routes. That´s my experience.
I mean why not. WaggonWerkstatt made the Brockenbahn and published it on Steam and another place (not sure atm). Everyone's free to release payware for TSC - just you have the problem with licensing all the freeware assets (which save you from doing a lot more work). I'm thankful for all that's out there already. Even if everybody would stop the game would not be dead. It's data that comes alive when running through my processor. Just less talk, I think that's what would be missed most. Content wise, there still enough for me to discover. (I have installed routes like Rostock just as a requirement, never playing some of these prerequisites themselves. Just made a few kms in Rodachtalbahn. Köblitz is somehow uninteresting for me, more of a demo "let's mix everything into one fictional route " - but it's a vital requirement.)
Believe me, myself and the guy who did Bremerhaven-Hannover have spoken about this... but we have no idea if this makes sense from a financial standpoint. If we walk away from the venture with 500 euros pocket money, we might as well just stick with freeware and use any assets we like. We don´t know the sales figures. We only know that DTG, JT and TSG have walked away from it and that is not encouraging.
