Dovetail, Trust, And Myself - An Essay

To be fair we don't know that it would have been any less hassle to fix it then. The 2D map is annoying but it is hardly the most pressing issue, it wasn't five years ago and certainly isn't now. Matt did explain the problems with the map and their ambitions for it.

 

As I have said before watershed moment I suspect, all production halted and efforts on this. I have enjoyed it but am sad that it has bugs that take enjoyment away from it also for others as well as me. Time for DTG to take a long hard look at the future. We can't have bugged DLC that takes months or in some cases years to fix. Time for a simplistic approach and perhaps new software?

 

doublefine7, redrev1917
About the 0633 service, everything went smoothly until after I did 12km in reverse, and was in the process of stopping and changing direction, I got a SPAD message.

Honestly I don't know if it's possible and I don't care

A service where you have to drive 12km backwards because of a misplaced marker is as broken as one that can't be finished at all to me.

https://www.twitch.tv/fd1003/v/1496384983?sr=a

Unrelated:
https://clips.twitch.tv/OutstandingPhilanthropicOwlStoneLightning-I4ty294AnHePKVLA

Thanks for YET ANOTHER BUFFER RELATED BUG! Added to the list, because what REALLY needed fixing was buffers clipping, the fact that it causes 10000 other bugs and issues, who cares. Way to go DTG!

I LOVE* hearing buffer clang sound every time my train goes over a switch. I LOVE* the fact that the TGV is now super jerky whenever the train gets compressed. I LOVE* being flung 10km/h faster when using PZB, If that would have caused an emergency brake application I would have uninstalled the game there and then. BUT HEY! BUFFERS DO NOT CLIP ANYMORE! *insert crab rave here*

History repeats itself with DTG:

• All speed boards set to 0
• Huge number of broken services because of the distance the trains stops from the signal

Revert to before the 30.05 update already, it caused more issues than it fixed. If you couldn't tell, I'm so incredibly frustrated with this game right now.

If the cause of the SoS derailment is that buffer patch, that would be so poetic.

*not censored, that's what I actually wrote

Addendum:
Sorry for the off topic, and sorry for venting my frustration like this

 

Interesting you mention the buffet sound on that service. I noticed it too

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/buffer-related-problems.55341

 

I was lead to believe they were planning on doing that anyway, although it is more of a case of when.

 

Do you use any mods? The resolution and how it looks turns me off after the high fidelity we got with TSW. The controls are simpler too but that might be on my side, I might have to poke through the settings to set it to pro or something.

 

Frankly why we have to even state this and have numerous people all try (and to my knowledge all fail) at completing this in an attempt at determining if the state of the game is acceptable is beyond me.

After all I regularly see RL freight trains running 12km backwards just to run forward over the same section of track and this is all perfectly normal behaviour correctly captured in TSW2.

 

Has anyone else had any Unhandled Exception: EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION crashes recently? Ive now had 4 today and cant explain it or see a pattern.
I 2nd the motion to roll back the 30/5 update.

 

I have just read all the posts in this thread and say I fully agree with the OP and others that have tried to state what is going wrong with the game but it seems to met with certain people who just are not listening to what is being said.

People are getting labelled 'toxic' because they are highlighting faults within the game or flaws? And some are even getting labelled or get jumped on cause they think that there shouldn't be a female fireman (clue is in the name) in the 1950's. And some even try to point out it is 'progressive' to have the female fireman in, WTF? People point out these flaws cause they want TSW2 to be the best train game out there.

SOS is supposed to have been sold as a period piece so trying to rewrite history is just a big turn off to many the only agenda that is being subscribed to is realism and people should not be made to feel awkward because of it. People should realise that people pointing out the flaws in the game are doing a much greater service than people that say 'there are bugs but we still think the game is great'.

DTG's problem imo is QA and not addressing historical bugs. I stopped playing TSW2 months ago but I keep coming back in the vain hope GWE gets updated, I find it insulting one of the first DLC still hasn't got it's updates released. I also think the game is not a sim especially when DTG put out stuff that either wasn't there at the time or just doesn't work or indeed is missing like sound. I know the game can't be 100% sim but it could be a lot better.

Perhaps DTG won't be able to improve until they move to a new engine as been said who knows but I wish DTG would give the ones who want more realism a nod to.

 

Probably less than 5 years hopefully. Although granted it's not really a major issue for me to be honest. I just don't use the map because it's useless

 

Well, in fairness, I think the label 'toxic' has less to do with position than manner. Some posters, while raising legitimate concerns, are doing it with tone and language which would be objectionable even if they were praising motherhood and apple pie.

 

Not going to happen this is Del boy's market stall, not Marks & Spencer.

 

Sometimes it is a reaction to someone's inaccuracies can work both ways I suppose.

 

The stream tomorrow should be interesting.
I have deactivated Auto Updates for TSW2 because I don't want the stuff broken that I can currently enjoy in-game. So I now always will wait a few days before updating. Sadly with steam it seems it will always update when you start the game and your only option is to disconnect from the internet

 

The QA issue has been around for years. It is fine to have a QA team but there's no point having one in the bugs they find aren't patched. I remember on a stream once (I think I did anyway) that the QA team does find most of the bugs we complain about, but DTG does nothing with that information. That is a huge problem and one of the reasons I made this thread.

 

Really? Simulator games are tough to make? Seems SCS Software has no problems creating theirs...

Trains without sounds, near empty timetables, weird lighting, red signals that won't ever clear, etc. are no small issues. You don't have to be a train nut to know there's something wrong. Even SCS Software wouldn't get away with that.

No, we focus on what is currently breaking our immersion and creates frustration. I believe that's the right thing to focus on. Obviously there's still plenty of stuff in TSW we enjoy, otherwise we wouldn't be buying it and we wouldn't be spending our time and effort posting passionate feedback on these forums in the hope DTG will fix the piece of software we all passionately care about.

Firstly, steam reviews only count those people who have bought it. Secondly, as steam has no 'middle' option, a positive review doesn't mean the customer is entirely happy with the product (but just happy enough). So 25% of reviewers think SoS is so bad, it's worth a negative review. But you make it sound like you're OK with that.

Lauching with small bugs isn't the real issue here. It's the fact that small bugs remaing unfixed for a prolonged time, or the patch that's supposed to fix them introduced more issues than it fixes. Some of these issues are spotted immeditately by players, so how come your company missed those during testing? And then there's the bugs that really are a tad too big to be classified as 'small'... or DTGs making promises they can't live up to.

 

Unfortunately I almost never play tsw2 anymore, maybe the odd service, but I've completely switched to run8 so much smoother and bug free and it's an actual real SIM with a huge world.
check it out run8.com

 

The Run 8 devs are also pretty red hot with updates and bugfixes.

 

If SCS software ever released a train sim, I would buy it in a flash Their american truck simulator and eurotruck simulator 2 are both amazing. Quite often when driving ATS and waiting at a railroad crossing, I find myself wishing they would make a train sim.

 

I like ETS but I am not sure making a truck sim is quite the same as a train sim. For example you don't get every mile of road and a lot of the cities are quite generic, I haven't played it for some time now and I believe they have been updating quite a lot of it. I would imagine it might be easier to get access to trucks than to trains.

 

They did update quite a lot indeed, and their newer and updated cities are much less generic than the older stuff. I'd suggest you boot up the game again to see what's been updated. Germany received an update and recently also Austria. Both are part of the base game so no DLC required. Take a look and be amazed how SCS handles their updates.

 

I will take a look at some point. I only have a 500gb HD at the moment, I mistakenly took the advice of the proprieter of my local computer repair shop! Therefore I dare not add any more games to the hard drive as it is close to being full. I am getting a external one soon, so will look at ETS again when I have. I used to enjoy it, it was very relaxing listening to the radio and driving a truck.

 

Run8 physics are top notch, you really do feel like you're in charge of a heavy train. It's also a shame that they haven't released a route/loco editor etc as it would be nice to have a UK based freight route for it (with a class 66 or something).

 

I would suggest I've probably directly reported more bugs with detailed recordings and instructions to reproduce than pretty much anyone here, so lets keep it real shall we?

I do not feel I muddy the waters, I feel I add perspective. Imagine a new player coming into the forums and thinking what I have I bought? Is it a total lemon? The answer is no its not, its a good game with some issues. Without this counterpoint you'd be thinking something very different reading a thread in a self fulfilling echo chamber.

ps. I'll turn the techno down now, sorry mate, wasn't thinking it was 2am .

Paul

 

So claiming features are included and that people are wrong when they state they aren't even after DTG have confirmed that the feature is missing isn't muddying the waters?

 

Exactly which feature are we talking about here?

 

YouTube you told me that track joints sounds are included, and basically told me I was wrong.

 

Listen to this then tell me what you hear as it pulls out of the station? If it doesn't start at 15.00 go there first.

 

Well 12 months on BML still does not have rush hour passengers although advertised as a rush hour route. You've gotta admit thats pretty embarrasing.

 

Not as embarrassing as some preservation content having bugs in TSW2 that weren't there in TSW2020. It has been almost 2 years and yet we aren't completely up to the same level of quality we had in TSW2020 (although admittedly received a few new features).

 

So you still maintain that DTG are wrong and that track joint sounds are in the game. Wow if contradicting DTG over what features are included in the game isn't muddying the waters then I really don't know what is.

As a consumer I am now confused.com

 

Dear landlord, do you really like trains or train fans! Although I didn't read your article in full.
Will DTG watch it? I bet "they won't".
They were determined to maximise commercialisation and to develop a 40 mile route and we were left with a 'pay £25 or no' option.

 

Did you listen to the video at 15.00 - you can clearly hear clickety clack of joint sounds. As I go on to say in the video they are not everywhere but you can hear them in lots of places.

 

I'm at work so no I've not listened to your video. But I did hear Matt clearly say track joints aren't in SOS. And I clearly read a post by JD confirming that Matt is correct. So despite what you claim I'm going with DTG official line that track joints aren't in the game until they state otherwise. Just because you've found the odd exception doesnt clarify anything and just muddys the water further.
You are splitting hairs, when people say they expect track joint sounds on the route then personally I mean on the majority if not all of the route, not just in the odd occasion, and I doubt I am alone in this.

 

I am pretty sure they said that the sounds are there, but for some reason can't be heard.

I think it could be a similar problem to AWS and Vigilance in the 387

 

Well what can I say? I offer you evidence that you can evaluate with your own ears but you don't. It's not an odd exception, you hear them inconsistently all over the place. I officially give up.

 

The evidence from DTG is black and white, are you saying I should just ignore that evidence and believe you?

 

This is getting ridiculous- stop the childish bickering, Matt did state the joint sounds were programmed but couldn’t be heard, which means if they can determine why and where, they can be corrected. It isn’t like they were not programmed which would require a total relaying of the track.

While I agree, the joint sounds can’t be heard in the cab, I have heard sounds going over points and I am confident the joint sounds will be corrected in the future.

Just agree to disagree and find some enjoyment in driving a scenario or service.

 

If only it was made audible before release...

I do wonder how DTG test things sometimes.

 

Lets be honest, it isn't the only sound that's not audible. I lost count on how many times I've had an AI freight train pass by, but only a selection of the wagons actually made a sound. I've kinda learned to live with it.

 

I know what I read

Not that the track joint sounds are there but not audible, what ever that even means.

You clearly want an excuse to ban me JD so go ahead.

 

What's the difference between "no sounds" and "sound that aren't audible" anyways. The discussion is getting annoying. Neither of you is gonna convince the other, so could you please stop this pointless discussion, please.

 

No sounds :

• no sound files
• no sound triggers set
• no sound programming set
• no sound results

Sounds not being audible :

• Sound files are there
• Sound triggers set
• Sound programming set

but for some reason either the triggers don't fire, or even if they do fire they're not resulting in the sound being output correctly or at all.
Examples of this are on BML, SoS and just about anything done on an Xbox (the annoying gunfire like sounds because the sound triggers are overlaying)

 

This isn't the only route affected by lack of sound either. The DB BR 185 freight train for example on the routes it runs on when I play it with the oil cars they make a clickety clack noise but then it fades away as the train passes along at speedvl whilst most of the train is still going by. That was a nice feature in TSW2020 and really added some immersion. Sad it's effectively bugged with no fix in sight unfortunately.

Harlem M7A ai trains have a similar problem pertaining to propulsion and the LIRR M7 ai trains make no sound.

The sound not being audible though means that there is sounds for the trains in it's programming or files, but it's not being triggered or it is but not properly. There are some routes that have this problem

 

I completely agree with everything that was said here regarding previous and new bugs, the state of the game in general and its (not so) bright future, provided things won't change. I started playing when the game was free on the Epic Store, and then quickly racked up 37 add-ons. The last one I bought was Tharandter Rampe.

I haven't played TSW2 since the end of March. Even uninstalled it. Never happened to me before that I quit playing a game because I got fed up with it so much. I played EVE Online for 6 years. No game-breaking bugs, got bored with it, and many of my friends stopped playing. Even invested nearly 200 hours in Stardew Valley. I quit because I achieved everything.

But with TSW2 I quit because I got annoyed that I couldn't enjoy that little time I can dedicate to gaming. It's not enjoyable if you're not sure whether you can finish a scenario or a timetable run, whether your train derails for no reason or whether your DB BR 182 randomly stops between Freiberg and Dresden because the PZB is misbehaving. Perhaps I expected too much from the game, but to me, these issues translate into immersion-breaking bugs. And the constant worry about updates; that one thing gets fixed, but they break another two or three. I'm no game dev, but it seems to me that adding content to it makes it more and more unstable. It's also interesting that after nearly 5 years we've only got a handful of third-parties. I can only name Rivet Games, Skyhook Games and TSG (apologies if I missed someone). Maybe its structure, editors and/or Simugraph is so complex that new outfits just wouldn't touch it with a barge pole when they learn what it takes to develop TSW2 content. And I'm not sure if these third parties are getting all the help and support they need (TSG developed 5* stuff though). On this forum everyone says that the DB BR 187 is a disaster. I didn't buy it, because I haven't read a single good review about it. But what if I say that I played with TSC content that was developed (partly) by Skyhook Games, and they are ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. These are the ones I own:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/861885/Train_Simulator_BB_1144__CityShuttle_Wiesel_Loco_AddOn/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1055336/Train_Simulator_BB_4744_Cityjet_EMU_AddOn/

They can develop good content, but not for TSW2. I keep wondering why...

So I went back to the good old TSC, and I have to admit that with good quality third-party content it feels better (to me, it's subjective), and as things stand, I don't plan to come back to TSW2, unless things change for the better (rather sooner than later).

The reason behind my post? There are many who gave up, not posting here about issues or moaning about broken fixes anymore. We just quietly quit, and move on. I'm sure I'm not the only one. But as long as the likes of SoS bring new customers, DTG probably doesn't worry too much.

 

In a computer program, quite a lot. There is a big, big difference between "too low in the mix" and "not even coded."

Think maybe of a remastered album where you can suddenly hear something like an acoustic rhythm guitar which was inaudible in the original. It was always there, just buried behind other instruments.

In software it is an enormous difference when it comes to fixing it- pushing up the fader is a hell of a lot easier than coding in a new sound file- or laying down a new guitar track!

 

That's slightly unfair; Cane Creek is a very good route which was unjustly slagged by the torches-and-pitchfork mob for a couple of annoying, non-game breaking visual and audio mistakes- three of which were promptly fixed ( of the remaining ones, the reversed truck on the AC4400 is a "big" goof but not really noticeable from the cab- the one which I find most immersion-breaking is the use of European police sirens.)

 

But as a customer, and in the gaming experience (immersion?), it really makes no difference why I can't hear a sound. It's up to the developer to find the cause and fix it. It's not something we customers should have page-long discussions about. :P