Dresden - The Definitive Feedback Thread.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, watching the stream today, I saw pluses and minuses. I've criticized the lighting as being "too orange". But it actually looked better the second time around, a bit more natural. Why, I don't know. Just my lights I guess. Or it might be because the TOD was only about 4 - 5pm, not the middle of the night. The modeling looked pretty good, but then all the German routes look good, even if they all look a little generic. The large selection of trains is a plus as is, surprisingly, the Elbe's water textures.

    But..... This is not Rush Hour or not what I was expecting. Where is the extra AI? Why is the Dresden station basically devoid of trains? Where are all the extra passengers? Is everyone in Germany on flex time or working from home?
    Cars moving on the wrong side of the road is like the incorrect lane markings in Cane Creek and Boston - inexcusable, how could the developers, QA and Beta testing miss something so elementary. Missing catenary, the same.

    I've already bought the route like many of us, of course. So I will play and maybe enjoy it, but I hope it gets some attention very soon or it may quickly lose its appeal.

    I think I'll go play a little WSR. It's so relaxing. No rush hour, no rush at all. Just " golden meadows, rolling hills and the seaside". Aahh. And a real, honest to goodness locomotive pulling old-fashioned rail cars!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly what I did after posting on this thread above. Great minds and all that.
     
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  3. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    What kind of copyright problem? Making simple announcements should not be a problem, right?
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the ticket machine and asked in the stream. I wondered if it was a little stream Easter egg and a nod to more things to interact with moving forward .

    Could there be more legwork going into a passenger mode. Who knows
     
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  5. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    It would be nice if a bullet list of features added in a DLC was given in an article on release. Imagine something like the patch notes, where changes get a mention with a brief description. There are some great new features which might get missed unless you happen to watch a preview stream, things like the ticket machine and brake settings on the wagons.

    Loved the lighting in shown in the stream in low light, having seen what is possible it will be disappointing going back to other routes now, I wish they all were as good as that.

    The scenery looked really good, lots of variety and you could see buildings in the distance as well.

    As already mentioned the route looked emptier than I was hoping. Sort of reminded me of HHL, I was hoping that the busyness of the route was going to be a defining feature.
     
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  6. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, that is what caused the problem. Around 1:53:00, Matt acknowledges Sifa with his controller, which also presses PZB-Frei, which caused the Zwangsbremsung. It seems that there needs to be more attention given to that all-encompassing button...

    Cheers
     
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  7. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    As far as I could see, it does seem like this new smart console acknowledge button uses both PZB acknowledge and PZB free instead of just the former. If so, those without an external keyboard are in for a treat, that‘s a recipe for disaster and continuous emergency brake applications.
     
  8. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Didnt he say somewhere in the stream that sifa is only bound to the PZB acknowledge button?
     
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  9. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Route is great looking, but in terms of AI traffic is no different to the existing routes, so what is a benefit of getting it? My suspicion why it is so empty is because of the chaos on Boston route, which was caused by the introduction of a large number of trains. They in order not to repeat that mistake took out significant portion of services. I am afraid that it is the problem again on the signaller side, mainly his inability to divert trains to other platforms. So again I am afraid that it will stay in this state for a long time. I draw this conclusion from giving up on adding promised services to the Bakerloo line.
     
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  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. Pre-BRD, the (o) or (B) buttons for Playstation and Xbox always operated both SIFA acknowledge and PZB acknowledge. The locos of BRD are supposed to know now when which safety systems needs to be acknowledged. (o)/(B) acknowledge SIFA and only acknowledge PZB when necessary. The trouble is that whoever set it up made it so that not only PZB acknowledge, but also PZB free are triggered when PZB needs to be acknowledged. Anyone with any knowledge of PZB can immediately spot why that‘s a recipe for disaster.
     
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  11. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, just like for the Bakerloo timetable... It will be on the roadmap until they change their mind...
     
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  12. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for that RS3L somewhere on Matt's computer! :)

    Cheers
     
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  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone in the DTG team after Matt's meeting he mentioned he was having today communicate anything to the community about what action will be taken around additional services please and the 75% of freight that may be missing?
     
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  14. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Despite my very vocal disappointment that this route lost the branches we were pretty much told were coming, I must say that the route, especially the lighting (including night lighting) looks amazing and has lifted a lot of the initial disappointment I had.

    However, I agree it is disappointing that so many issues identified on the two streams exist at this late stage and won’t be corrected (if ever) until a later update - the route was supposedly delayed to ensure things like this were sorted beforehand. The list Matt had to take away last night was not insignificant. I just hope nothing is forgotten. It gets weary having to constantly flag issues that shouldn’t see the light of day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  15. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Regarding the controller activating PZB Release... that's a bug, I confirmed that after the session last night and will be talking to the team about that today.
     
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  16. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    I don't think accurately modeling the braking systems is "something nobody asked for". I always welcome more physics realism. I consider that is at least as important for a sim as environmental things like announcements and much more important than gameplay conveniences like journey mode chapters, which I never even use. So to each his own, really.

    And as for train announcements - for pc users (and this is the PC forum after all) those are quite easy to implement by the community, I am surprised no one had done it yet. There are sim-independent utilities that play sound files in sequence by a keypress, and routes for both Trainz and the old Train Simulator made use of those. You just load a small utility, select the route you're gonna be driving, and then trigger the announcements by pressing a configurable key on the keyboard. All one needs to set it up is clear enough recordings of the announcements themselves. Which is the tricky part of course, because it'd either require a community member local to the route with time to go and record all of them by taking multiple trips along the length of the line, or someone who can convincingly voice-act a replica of those announcements. But if people managed to do it for old TS and Trainz routes, I don't see why not do it for TSW routes as well, it'd definitely be easier for the community to do it than to wait for DTG to arrange endless copyright contracts for each route.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  17. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I was extremely impressed by both streams, the lighting is superb. Nice variety of services.

    I was disappointed about the loss of branchlines at first but I think they’ve made up for it. I always prefer a network of routes, rather than an end to end drive.

    And the VVO livery on the Talent 2 and Dostos looks really good!

    Really looking forward to this one!
     
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  18. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    After this stream I got an impression that DTG is overwhelmed a bit by their own size, not being able to communicate well enough between their different teams. I also find it bewildering that Matt is just now discovering that there are not enough services on the route, but he said himself during the stream that he didn't work on the timetable for this route. So, that would suggest that the team responsible for this route's TT didn't do what they were tasked with properly, and somehow he is only now figuring this out. It is odd how the senior producer only gets to experience the route after a release candidate is already on his machine and a release timeframe has been set; I'd think if there was better communication between the different teams he would have gotten to it sooner and maybe picked up on the lack of services in time for release.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  19. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    Agreed. It is a shame about the branch lines that weren't included. However there seems to be quite a lot to do on this route anyway, with the different types of service.

    And I'm glad that they've added the extra braking options (and it is always nice for a handle to work). I liked the rules-of-thumb for freight PZB mode and for braking mode.

    I'd love to see platform announcements. Announcements in-cab would be okay as well but having used similar in flight sims I find that they're great to start with but probably aren't my favourite feature long term.
     
  20. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see the live stream, and have just watched a bit of it on YT. I have to say the train sound updates are rather nice. The 143 is rather virtualRailways-esq.
     
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  21. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Dtg have a tricky balancing act.
    They have to supply enough hardcore detail for the geeks, yet retain enough simplicity to engage the casual gamer.

    I play Tsw to relax.
    Like many I've too much going on in real life to fully explore the hardcore details as I'll never be working on a railroad.
    The intricacies of German modern braking systems is up there with Tantric demonology...
     
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  22. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    That's a fair point David. Sometimes I think though that similar to how water feels deep if I can't touch the bottom, a simulation feels deep if it has features beyond those that I use. I'll hopefully try playing with the handles a few times but it is nice to know that they're there, even if I don't use them all the time.

    edit: And it is nice to have a basic ideal as to which braking mode to use (and PZB mode if you use that, PZB feels like it is helping me to know how to drive, until it slams the brakes on obviously).
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  23. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Well, the problem with the timetable is, that Dresden Hbf is a clocked node, so there is no continous flow of trains at the station but all the trains will be there at the same time.

    Screenshot_20210903-133639_Chrome.jpg

    Like in this Screenshot of the real time timetable. 6 trains will be at the station between 09:29 to 09:36, while between 09:36 to 09:51 you will only see two single trains. So, with Matt arriving about 8 minutes late at the station, he has just missen the time, when all the trains are at the station, and they have just left the station a couple of minutes before Matt arrives. So, as DTG use the real timetable, it was realstic, that not much is going on at the station. By arriving late, he just has been at the station at the wrong time.
     
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  24. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    That's a valid point regarding Boston, but I don't think there would have been enough time for them if that were the case to have decided pretty much close to release to cut a huge chunk of the timetable for Dresden. By doing that they would still have to re-test all of the services in the slimmed-down timetable mode and so on. Plus while I've seen problems reported by players on here regarding stuck AI trains on Boston, I've yet to encounter this myself, although I agree it's frustrating! What makes Boston South stand out though is the amount of AI traffic - well only at this end of the route to be fair - I'd never thought that would be possible, especially on console. Hopefully a move DTG can implement on future routes.

    I'd guess this decision to have the current Dresden timetable was probably made ages ago I reckon. Moreover, the difference between this RH route compared to Boston and London-Brighton is the amount of locos and layers on the route. I think even some PCs would struggle to cope with a full RH timetable that consisted all the S-Bahn, Regional Express, ICE and Freight locos - thus this has got to play some kind of factor relating to the current timetable. Obviously, as you rightly say, the dispatcher definitely needs improvement too though.

    Hopefully, with Brighton-London up next, it will be nice to know if a full RH timetable can be implemented with just the 377 and 387 present, obviously with the dispatcher able to handle the traffic.
     
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  25. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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  26. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Active Member

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    Do you know when about this was? or a timestamp myself and probably a few others missed it
     
  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Info screen for the 363 is wrong. It says "12 cylinder Maybach GT06", but all Class 363s by definition have Caterpillar diesels, installed in the late 1990s (Those V 60-series locos with the original Maybachs, numbered 360/361, were retired not long after).
     
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  28. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    1 hour, 4 minutes and a bit:


    That one's at Dresden-Bischofsplatz
     
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  29. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least for the in the article depicted loco (261 671-2) it seems very unlikely, that it had had this overhaul. This loco was put out of service in 1984 by DB, and was sold to a steelworks company. Right now, it is owned by a loco leasing company. As this loco wasn´t in service for DB at the time of the general overhaul, it´s more likely, that it has never gotten the Caterpillar motor. At least, it is still classified by the NVR-number as a 361, not a 363.
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If it was sold by DB in 1984, then it was never painted blue.
     
  31. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    How strange that all the pictures in the link show it in blue livery then...actually, the oceanblue/beige-livery came up in 1974. So, enough time to repaint it.
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’d be interested to know what’s happening with this route now. Anyone think this will end up with a boston, Dresden Brighton patch months down line that may add extra freight to Dresden or will it be like all the extra bakerloo services
     
  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely find it unlikely that we’ll see a 75% increase in services, plus even more for passenger services.

    This route feels very rushed if I’m honest, and gives me concerns about BML.
     
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  34. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    We'll find out when Brighton releases, since that's the timeframe Matt seemed to give.
     
  35. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    The reason for the branches cut was to ensure more quality. It definitely wasn't true.
     
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  36. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Like everything that comes out of DTG.
     
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  37. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    In what way? Scenery-wise it doesn't look rushed at all to me. They also took enough time to fix all the sound issues and physics. And spent much development time for the new night lighting. Where is it rushed?
     
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  38. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    They always leave something behind: this time the timetables. Probably due to the mess in the Boston Sprinter DLC
     
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  39. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Missing services, missing infrastructure for large sections, faulty AI trains, scenery traffic literally driving on the wrong side of the road, PIS showing route stations as destinations rather than IRL destination.

    The reason it appears rushed is because all of this was only picked up by the senior producer in the past week, so clearly little time has been dedicated to this route, which is releasing in a few days.

    There hasn’t been enough time dedicated to building the route, plotting the schedule and performing proper testing, because all of that should of been picked up before it was shown to the public.

    The night lighting was contracted out to a second party so DTG didn’t have as much work to do there, and large sections of scenery are countryside anyway, the physics are likely not going to be dealt with by the team that builds the route or the team that builds the schedule for the route, thus leading to the feeling that this route hasn’t had enough development time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  40. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Which still means that they spent resources for that. DTG saved time, but spent money for that. So basically it has the same outcome (speaking of spending vs saving ressources, not the quality). You could even argue: It freed up time for them to develop other stuff.

    I still don't exactly know where? Yeah, missing bits of the catenery. But is isn't for a "large section". Or are you talking about something else? The tram line around Dresden Mainstation? That's a fair point - it's a very important scenery. But they's need to develop whole new catenery assets for hardly any benefit (on a simulation level). Sure, it's a minus for the immersion, but I think utility vs costs probably says that it would be too much to develop.
     
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  41. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Now imagine it if the branches hadn't been cut - there'd be a huge possibility it'd be another SEHS, with rushed scenery and some scenery just straight up missing.
     
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  42. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I mean missing OLE is quite big, it’s literally as important as the track, if it isn’t there then these trains wouldn’t be running, and it’s a sizeable amount that’s missing with one large chunk at one end of the bypass line with various bits missing throughout.

    The issues within the route all amount to the conclusion that this route needed more time in development, or at least more time being tested.

    You defending these issues is a mute point since they’ve already been acknowledged by DTG as actual issues that need resolving, the point being raised is why were these discrepancies only discovered by DTG when it was pointed out on stream by various viewers who recognised the issues at first glance.
     
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  43. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    ill take that ticket machine over branches all day ;)
     
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  44. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    bml is probably just going to end up like sehs
     
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  45. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    No I'm not defending it just to defend it. I'm just trying to understand your point, which is a fair one :)
     
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which "missing services" has DTG acknowledged?
     
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  47. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The ~75% of freight services not operating on the route as of Thursday's stream.

    Cheers
     
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  48. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The freight specifically but also generally across the route.

    If I remember correctly it was towards the end when Matt did the freight run that he mentioned he’ll have to look into why the full timetable wasn’t in place.

    You can watch the preview stream that took place on Thursday for more details.
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Freight has always got short shrift on German routes, even RSN. In fact, DTG only pays lip service to freight on all non-US routes.
     
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  50. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that DTG publicly recognise that BRD is a major freight corridor, and those services contribute just as much to the feeling of rush hour as the passenger services.

    Cheers
     
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